Is Rondo Finally the best PG in the NBA?

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Is Rondo the Best PG in the NBA?

Yes
3
11%
No
19
68%
Best Passer, But Not The Best Overall PG
6
21%
 
Total votes: 28

tsherkin
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Re: Is Rondo Finally the best PG in the NBA? 

Post#81 » by tsherkin » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:23 am

MisterWestside wrote:The question is how, though. You originally talked about pace, and I gave a season with high team pace and less than ideal roster conditions in which Calderon still outperformed Rondo on offense. I'm arguing that Boston would benefit him when you consider the context.


And I'm disagreeing, and waiting for you to address the issues of roster and mentality that would affect Calderon, IMO. Calderon was able to succeed in Toronto because all he does is play PnR.

I'm not referring to changing usage here, but floor spacing. Calderon would still defer of course, but unlike Rondo you can't leave him open. Even if he takes shots at the same low rate as he does now that's more points the Celtics get than if Rondo is left alone on the perimeter.


I think he'd shoot as much or less than Rondo.. and Rondo doesn't take a lot of threes. The Boston offense actually doesn't generate a lot of opportunities for Rondo to take 3s aside from the previously mentioned low-efficiency bail-outs. Calderon wouldn't take MORE 3s.

That's what, a couple shots a game? With a lesser roster around him Calderon's efg% on those shots has been better than Rondo's anyway, and it doesn't outweigh the sheer benefit he would enjoy with his other open shots on the floor next to KG/Pierce.


Again, though, his shot selection in Toronto has been dictated by a different roster context than exists in Boston. Calderon takes 2-4 3PA/g in Toronto. Rondo takes 0.5 - 1. Calderon doesn't seek shots by nature, so he's not going to go looking for shots that he doesn't have to take. I'm sure that his 3pt shot would help a little, but I think that you're not necessarily appreciating how differently the two teams operate and how that might affect Calderon. Toronto's offense generates more assisted 3PAs for its PGs, so unless Jose starts bombing away freely from 3 out of the PnR, which seems highly unlikely given his reticence towards shooting, it's not likely that this would be a significant part of his contribution to Boston's offense... and what they'd gain there, some of it would be taken back with his lesser usage of transition opportunities, isolations and his FAR less creative passing.
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Re: Is Rondo Finally the best PG in the NBA? 

Post#82 » by GAME TIME » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:42 am

edit

Good point. I thought the Celtics won that game
tsherkin
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Re: Is Rondo Finally the best PG in the NBA? 

Post#83 » by tsherkin » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:45 am

I dunno if you call that stat padding, he was making good passes to Sullinger. I suppose that one sits on Doc's shoulders for playing Rondo all through the fourth in a 20-point loss, right?
MisterWestside
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Re: Is Rondo Finally the best PG in the NBA? 

Post#84 » by MisterWestside » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:01 am

tsherkin wrote:


Well an offense is a reflection of your player's talents (or it should be, at least), so I don't see why you're looking to project Calderon in the current Rondo-style offense. Calderon uses PnR more? Well, use it then; and work some of it into your playbook. I also don't get the Calderon "reticence to shoot" claim in comparison to Rondo. Even in '12 Calderon took one less shot per 36 minutes than Rondo (and ~3 less true shooting attempts/36), and I don't think he would necessarily have to shoot a ton more 3/shots in general on this team once you integrate him into the lineup. The technical passing edge that Rondo provides would be absent, but I think the whole idea is that the Celtics weren't exactly thriving off of Rondo's assists in the first place.

As usual, you're formidable with your posts :lol: I'll respectfully disagree with you here.
tsherkin
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Re: Is Rondo Finally the best PG in the NBA? 

Post#85 » by tsherkin » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:08 pm

MisterWestside wrote:Well an offense is a reflection of your player's talents (or it should be, at least), so I don't see why you're looking to project Calderon in the current Rondo-style offense. Calderon uses PnR more? Well, use it then; and work some of it into your playbook.


Again though, Rondo does use a lot of PnR... but they have too many superior options, so it wouldn't make sense to much adjust their offense in order to get him going a lot, you want to be sending the ball where it belongs, to the better scorers.

I also don't get the Calderon "reticence to shoot" claim in comparison to Rondo. Even in '12 Calderon took one less shot per 36 minutes than Rondo (and ~3 less true shooting attempts/36), and I don't think he would necessarily have to shoot a ton more 3/shots in general on this team once you integrate him into the lineup.


The point is more than a) he shoots less b) he doesn't like to shoot and c) he wouldn't assert himself in order to shoot a lot more of any specific type of shot when he could just let the set offense run or dump the ball off to someone else for an isolation (be it post or wing), so he's not going to normalize his attempts much beyond what Rondo produces.

I don't see it. And remember, this is purely from an offensive standpoint. Calderon would make a good backup to someone like Rondo, I think. He's always been best as a change-of-pace guard who can run with a unit that works well with the PnR and doesn't require much from him. The starting 5 is pretty self-contained in Boston, but precisely because of that, I don't see much involvement for Rondo and not a ton of improvement in their ORTG. Spot-ups would be better, FT% would be better, so I'm sure there'd be a cosmetic difference in their ORTG. Last year's an obvious one, of course, because Ray Allen missed a third of the season, so any extra edge would help. In 2011, though? KG missed almost a dozen games, and I don't think Glen Davis would be quite what Jose needs as a PnR partner to REALLY make a difference, and of course they had a ton of turnover problems (including from Davis, notably).

But yeah, I guess agree to disagree here. I don't see Jose making a huge difference in Boston and I suspect they'd get worse because he's too limited. I think you'd see it more in close games and in those matchups with upper-third defenses.
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Re: Is Rondo Finally the best PG in the NBA? 

Post#86 » by Copperhead » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:48 pm

There should be a "he** no" option. :lol:
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Re: Is Rondo Finally the best PG in the NBA? 

Post#87 » by GetItDone » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:51 pm

No, but he has solidified himself as the 2nd best PG right after Chris Paul.
ThatsWhatIShved wrote:Disrespectfull thread. I would take 06 Arenas over Lebron. Other than traveling and suspected PED use, what does Lebron have over Gil?

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