RealGM

To me it's gotta be KG. I always thought of him as a fringe top 25 player, judging him by his lack of team-mates. Now I can actually understand what an amazing defensive AND offensive player he was during his Minnesota days, and it really wasn't his fault that he was saddled with awful teams. He's now 15 on my list.

Conversely, the guy against whom the arguments I can't agree with at all are Chamberlain, I feel people are just out against him with no real logic to some of the statements he made.

So KG is one guy about whom the discussions have had a profound impact on me, and Wilt is one guy about whom the discussion hasn't mattered to me.

What about you'll?

Before I started visiting this board, I'd always had Michael, Magic and Bird at the first three GOAT spots, like, the historical BIG THREE of basketball. I was really surprised to see Russel, Kareem ahead of Magic, and Wilt before Bird.

Has changed my opinion

KG: I was a hater but the evidence this board put forward in his favor was so convincing it forced me to change my opinion. I now consider him the best player of the 00s.


Hasn't changed my opinion

Hakeem Olajuwon. A lot of respected posters seem to act like his peak was MJ or Shaq level and I'm not buying it. His peak was much closer to guys like TD than those two.

Biggest positive change for me is Russell - Regardless of era, the impact he had on the game of basketball may never be replicated again. I have gained appreciation towards him and have him ranked #3 all-time.

Negative change - Wilt - I fall into the Elgee, Doc MJ, Fatal9 opinion group here. The facts presented about him and impact to his teams just make sense and I have yet to see any debunk of these claims from any of the pro Wilt camp outside of you just have to believe in the articles and hype. The highlight reel footage doesn't match the eye test nor the article recaps. Currently have him ranked #10 with LBJ to soon replace him.

Negative - Wade, I admire Wade and I'm still amazed on his performance in their first title run. But IMO, he's one of the most overrated players in realgm, some can't even accept that he has been declining which made my admiration for him less and dislike the current version of Wade.

Positive - Russell, because of the boards I learned more about the greatness of Mr. Russell

It's a funny way of looking at it... But I always had Russell at no. 3 on my ATL behind Jordan and Kareem. Now, I still have him at 3, but for completely different reasons. Earlier on it was basically the whole '11 rings!!!' thing, now I understand that he was one HELL of a player. Shot-blocking, rebounding, high-post passing, the dude was a machine.

So yeah, no change in placements on my ATL, but completely changed the way I look at him, so not sure of it counts

Positive: Garnett, Nash, Bill Russell.

Negative: Wilt.

MacGill wrote:Biggest positive change for me is Russell - Regardless of era, the impact he had on the game of basketball may never be replicated again. I have gained appreciation towards him and have him ranked #3 all-time.

Negative change - Wilt - I fall into the Elgee, Doc MJ, Fatal9 opinion group here. The facts presented about him and impact to his teams just make sense and I have yet to see any debunk of these claims from any of the pro Wilt camp outside of you just have to believe in the articles and hype. The highlight reel footage doesn't match the eye test nor the article recaps. Currently have him ranked #10 with LBJ to soon replace him.

This is basically me as well. Russell's a little bit iffy because I didn't feel I knew enough about him before to call him drastically overrated, but I was skeptical. Wilt though, man, I never would have imagined my opinion of him would drop so much.

I'll also mention Garnett, though that's an interesting case. It's not like my current opinion of him is totally new, it's more like I just stopped letting his late Minny years drag him down so much. Without RealGM, I'd be like most people taking those years as signs that he wasn't a true MVP-level player because he couldn't do it alone...not I realize nobody does it alone and Garnett just got unlucky.

Last I'll give a shout out to Shaq...who I hate. Just hate the man as a person. Never stopped me from agreeing he was the best in the game at his peak, but I'm pretty shocked to realize just how consistent his dominating impact was even when he out of shape and destroying the locker room.

Positive:

- LeBron
- KG
- Russell
- Shaq

Negative:

- Bird
- Dream
- Wilt
- Wade

Doctor MJ wrote:

MacGill wrote:Biggest positive change for me is Russell - Regardless of era, the impact he had on the game of basketball may never be replicated again. I have gained appreciation towards him and have him ranked #3 all-time.

Negative change - Wilt - I fall into the Elgee, Doc MJ, Fatal9 opinion group here. The facts presented about him and impact to his teams just make sense and I have yet to see any debunk of these claims from any of the pro Wilt camp outside of you just have to believe in the articles and hype. The highlight reel footage doesn't match the eye test nor the article recaps. Currently have him ranked #10 with LBJ to soon replace him.

This is basically me as well. Russell's a little bit iffy because I didn't feel I knew enough about him before to call him drastically overrated, but I was skeptical. Wilt though, man, I never would have imagined my opinion of him would drop so much.

I'll also mention Garnett, though that's an interesting case. It's not like my current opinion of him is totally new, it's more like I just stopped letting his late Minny years drag him down so much. Without RealGM, I'd be like most people taking those years as signs that he wasn't a true MVP-level player because he couldn't do it alone...not I realize nobody does it alone and Garnett just got unlucky.

Last I'll give a shout out to Shaq...who I hate. Just hate the man as a person. Never stopped me from agreeing he was the best in the game at his peak, but I'm pretty shocked to realize just how consistent his dominating impact was even when he out of shape and destroying the locker room.

It's funny you should say that Doc, you're the one who is responsible for changing OTHER people's minds most of the time

ardee wrote:It's funny you should say that Doc, you're the one who is responsible for changing OTHER people's minds most of the time

It is pretty funny isn't it?

I'm not so falsely modest that I'll refuse to acknowledge I have some influence here, and I do recognize times where when people talk about "only on RealGM" they quite literally mean that as a shot at me among other things. At the same time, I didn't come here with any special knowledge, and I'm under no illusion that I'm the most knowledgeable poster here, so I had better be able to have my mind changed.

It is of course worth noting that I'm saying "me too" to posters who I've influenced. To some degree that's bound to induce some , but those opinions in question, I did not come in here with the right opinion and proceed to change everyone else, others convinced me and I've just stuck around long enough that any debate that comes up, I've discussed the details previously. Easier to ride a bull when it's not your first rodeo.

I wouldn't attribute this board to changing my mind here because even with the raging arguments, I take a firm stance on the retired "greats" of the game and their respective rankings. But I will credit some posters here for providing more insight on Bill Walton's impact.

Positively? Russell, but I still feel the "cap" for a center's ability to defensively impact a game is lower now than it was in the 60s (due to things like 3 pt shooting, generally better perimeter skills outside of 15+ feet, better finishing and repertoire of shots inside the paint from guards...among several other things). I don't think I'm penalizing him for his era when I say this, but it's an advantage I feel he had over some of the guys that came afterwards. Oscar is probably another guy, used to have West ahead of him, now I lean towards Oscar.

Negatively? Maybe Baylor, but I never really thought that highly of him.

Probably KG. I had my doubts about him and the weirdly average Wolves DRTG ranks for a while, but now I firmly believe he is a top 10 player of all time

Oddly enough, probably Shaq.

I always thought he was a good player, but thought he was overrated for what he was and given a pass for his (relatively) iffy defence and rebounding. Now am entirely comfortable with him as having one of the better peaks in NBA history.

Negatively? Wilt. But it's not as simple as that. Wilt's got a career with a lot of texture (in fact, different textures at different points), and he's grown simultaneously less dominant and more interesting in my mind...

Russell. I used to have him at the lower end of the top 10 players ever, and even that was only because it "felt" like the right place for him, not because I knew how good he was. Now I sometimes consider him the GOAT, even if Jordan does feel like a safer pick.

i think negatively its definitely wilt, but overall, i feel like a lot of people on this board have shown and explained the tools and methods to which they arrive at these conclusions, which has helped me form my own opinion on current and past players. its not just the discussion of stats like RAPM or on/off numbers, but its the way that people analyze these numbers and relate them to how they were playing and their teams.

as far as changing my views positively of a player, it would definitely be nash. i always knew he was good, but i thought his MVPs were undeserved at the time. looking at him now, i could really say he is arguably the greatest offensive player ever.

Bill Walton. I never really knew just how a complete player he was and rather always looked at his injuries and PPG as negatives to his career.

Melo. He's playing extremely smart basketball right now. Picked up his D and shot selection. He isn't demanding the ball every single possession and is playing off the PGs. What more can you ask?

Godrick wrote:Melo. He's playing extremely smart basketball right now. Picked up his D and shot selection. He isn't demanding the ball every single possession and is playing off the PGs. What more can you ask?

What does this have to do with "this board"?