James Harden vs Carmelo Anthony, who would you rather have?

[TheKingOfVa360]

I'm taking the best offensive player in the NBA, hands down this is Melo. It's an insult to compare him to Harden.

[Jase]

I'm not a big Melo fan. At all. I'll criticize him at any opportunity. Yet I can't deny how he has played this year. Something in him has changed. He let go a little. He seems to be playing more for the team than himself. Based on potential, I think Melo is at least two tiers above Harden. IMHO, that offsets the age difference.

[tsherkin]

I'm taking the best offensive player in the NBA, hands down this is Melo. It's an insult to compare him to Harden.

Yeah, this is directly false. Especially once you start factoring in stuff like passing, offensive rebounding, foul draw, etc, etc. Melo is very clearly not one of the two best offensive players in the league and only arguably #3, let alone definitively #1. It's entirely unfounded to say otherwise, and the guys above him aren't playing at unsustainable, outlier levels of perimeter shooting, either.

Come on, now, this is just ridiculous. "Best offensive player" isn't about who looks the prettiest, it's about who gets the ball going through the hoop at the best rate for himself and for his team, and Melo isn't at all the best at that.

Something in him has changed.

Yeah, he's shooting 45.5% from 3. If you drop him back to his career average, then all of what's remarkable about his offense goes away. Well, no, I should say "all of what separates this season from his previous seasons goes away," because he's still a remarkable player.

He's blown hard at the rim, shooting 54.2% FG on 6.8 FGA/g, which is 10.8% below league average for small forwards and 11.5% below league average for power forwards. He's been hilariously bad there. He's shooting over 10% below average for SFs right near the rim, too.

He's killing it with his perimeter shot, way over-shooting his career averages beyond 10 feet and he's drawing fouls well (as always, though not at his own peak level).

Basically, he's hot on his jumper. This isn't the first time it's happened. He shot 42.4% from 3 for 27 games when he first got to New York, as well, and on 4.6 3PA/g no less. Then he shot 35.5% over the lockout season. Meantime, he's shot over 40% from 16-23 only once in the last 8 seasons apart from this year and he's shooting 46% from there so far. It's possible that he'll continue to shoot that well, but it's unlikely, just as it's unlikely he'll continue to shoot nearly 46% from 3pt range.

It's a hot jumper. He's a good player. It happens. People are attributing his success to all sorts of things, but it really boils down to him hitting his jumper at an atypical rate.

Now, some of it is that he's playing more away from the ball and isolating less... which is a good thing, because he's been not so good at so far this season. He's shooting under 39% from the field and just over 29% out of isolations at this stage in the season, saving himself with fouls drawn there. But he's shooting 55% from 3 in transition on a non-trivial number of attempts, and that's not going to continue. More than in previous seasons will stay, though, because he's using considerably fewer isolation sets than is typical for him, but even still, he's not going to continue shooting at this rate. Hell, Melo shot 48.6% from 3 through the first 5 games of December and 44% in November. I don't see how people think that's going to keep up, even with him spotting up more frequently. He shot 46% from 3 in April last year, too, and still shot under 36% on the season. He shot 45.6% from 3 in February of 2011 (and over 42% from 3 for 27 games after the trade, as mentioned). He shot 43.2% from 3 in March of 2009. He shot 57.9% from 3 in a short April in 2008. Shot 42.9% from 3 in April of 07. He shot 42.9% in February of his rookie season, too.

Do people not get this? Melo is a streaky shooter and sometimes he gets hot for a while. It happens. Now more than ever, he's a little bit more bolstered by spot-up opportunities than usual, but like OJ Mayo, this isn't a sustainable level of shooting for a guy who's not shown anything like this level of shooting ability on the balance of an entire season before... and Melo's been in the league 10 years now.

[BlackIce]

The better question:

Is Melo more comparable to Harden or Durant?

[SoulInTheHole7]

Harden aka the most overrated player in the league, isn't remotely close to Melo's level.

[tsherkin]

Harden aka the most overrated player in the league, isn't remotely close to Melo's level.

This is definitely inaccurate.

At this stage, what we're seeing is that Harden is a sound playmaker who can score at a volume and level of efficiency similar to Carmelo. Lacking the kind of talent around him Melo enjoyed in Denver and now in New York, it's not terrifically surprising that he's "only" got the Rockets playing around .500 ball.

It is really rather inaccurate for you to say he "isn't remotely close to Melo's level."

[DreDay]

Melo by far. Harden is a 3rd option at best, is a ballstopper, gets paid too much for his skillset, not marketable, lacks a true offensive aresenal, a sieve on defense. Melo might be some of those things but not on the level of Max Contract Harden.

[tsherkin]

Melo by far. Harden is a 3rd option at best,

This is definitively untrue, since Harden is producing 24.8 ppg on high efficiency while making plays for others at a high level for a 2-guard in his role as the #1 option on the Rockets.

Why do people say things like this, things that are blatantly untrue?

is a ballstopper,

If, by "ball stopper," you happen to mean "only consistently viable offensive weapon who can create for others on the team," then sure. Other than that, watch more Houston before making odd and inaccurate comments.

[MisterWestside]

Come on tsherkin; you know you're alone on this one. Melo's on the top team in the East while Harden plays for .500 Houston; therefore Melo's automatically playing better basketball than Harden. After all, he's doing all of the "winning" things that's um, "making" his team win; like, er, um, passing the ball more than Harden (not actually; the guy's still a chucker at heart) and playing MVP caliber defense (ditto with this one; I wouldn't call Melo a defender either, at least not a night-and-day better defender). And, um, other things that nobody can name; those nameless things that only WINNERS do when they WIN. Is Harden a WINNER?

No. So stop being foolish.

[smith2373]

Melo by far. Harden is a 3rd option at best,

This is definitively untrue, since Harden is producing 24.8 ppg on high efficiency while making plays for others at a high level for a 2-guard in his role as the #1 option on the Rockets.

Why do people say things like this, things that are blatantly untrue?

is a ballstopper,

If, by "ball stopper," you happen to mean "only consistently viable offensive weapon who can create for others on the team," then sure. Other than that, watch more Houston before making odd and inaccurate comments.

The only thing Harden's been efficient at is shooting FT's. I wouldn't call shooting 43% from the field, 34% from three or averaging 4 TO's a game efficient.

[BlackIce]

Come on tsherkin; you know you're alone on this one. Melo's on the top team in the East while Harden plays for .500 Houston; therefore Melo's automatically playing better basketball than Harden. After all, he's doing all of the "winning" things that's um, "making" his team win; like, er, um, passing the ball more than Harden (not actually; the guy's still a chucker at heart) and playing MVP caliber defense (ditto with this one; I wouldn't call Melo a defender either, at least not a night-and-day better defender). And, um, other things that nobody can name; those nameless things that only WINNERS do when they WIN. Is Harden a WINNER?

No. So stop being foolish.

This post isn't WINNING unfortunately. Melo is dominating the ball (34.4%) and has much better spacing around him. He has a much better team. Is he playing at a high level? Sure. But...

A) Sample size.

B) Supporting Cast

[BlackIce]

Melo by far. Harden is a 3rd option at best,

This is definitively untrue, since Harden is producing 24.8 ppg on high efficiency while making plays for others at a high level for a 2-guard in his role as the #1 option on the Rockets.

Why do people say things like this, things that are blatantly untrue?

is a ballstopper,

If, by "ball stopper," you happen to mean "only consistently viable offensive weapon who can create for others on the team," then sure. Other than that, watch more Houston before making odd and inaccurate comments.

The only thing Harden's been efficient at is shooting FT's. I wouldn't call shooting 43% from the field, 34% from three or averaging 4 TO's a game efficient.

Harden has no bigs who finish on the pick and roll, Lin can't shoot and isn't effective unless he is dominating the ball, poor bench, etc. Also check his TS it's 58% and he's making 3's at a 34% clip. But he's shooting for volume there. What Harden is doing is impressive.

[Sebastian]

I see this argument that Melo is a superduperstar, an MVP front-runner, best scorer in the league everywhere. It's a real head-scratcher, but then again it sort of isn't -- he plays in NY and his game is aesthetically pleasing. For most people, that's enough to lump him in with the Durant's and LeBron's of the world.

As tsherkin already pointed out, he is having his best season ever due to a positive outlier in his 3-point shooting. When he settles back in the mid-thirties range from distance, the scoring efficiency, the raw scoring numbers, the PER, etc., all will slip.

That said, even with this out-of-this-world start to his season, Melo is still nowhere near LeBron and Durant (as a scorer or otherwise). The difference between him and Harden is close to the difference between LeBron and Durant. We're talking about strikingly different levels of performance here. Melo is a tier 2 guy. Nothing wrong with that and no reason to pretend otherwise.

[Rapcity_11]

Melo by far. Harden is a 3rd option at best, is a ballstopper, gets paid too much for his skillset, not marketable, lacks a true offensive aresenal, a sieve on defense. Melo might be some of those things but not on the level of Max Contract Harden.

So now that all else has failed, the Harden bashers are latching onto ball-stopping as a last ditch effort to justify their wrong opinions. Hilarious.

[OptimusOne6]

At this point, there is no argument that Harden is better than Melo now.

The only argument Harden has over Melo in terms of who you would rather on your team is potential and youth which would be about the future.

Harden does just about everything worse than Melo does. The only things Harden does better than Melo is something incredibly specific like he is better at the pick and roll or something, too bad he is a worse scorer, worse passer, worse ball-handler, worse rebounder, worse defender, bigger ball-stopper, etc. than Melo is.

And for the record, I actually dislike Melo much more, but anyone who isn't irrational will tell you Melo is better than Harden by a lot right now.

[OptimusOne6]

If, by "ball stopper," you happen to mean "only consistently viable offensive weapon who can create for others on the team," then sure. Other than that, watch more Houston before making odd and inaccurate comments.

Jeremy Lin can create on his team, but the Rockets prefer letting Harden dribble the ball for 10 seconds and then get a pick and roll while the rest of the team stands there.

You act if this was the first time Harden was a ball-stopper, he was a ball-stopper in OKC too.

He turned Westbrook into an off-guard/spot-up shooter. Westbrook's assists dropped from 8-9 apg to 5-6 apg in the 2012 season. Harden leaves for the Rockets in 2013 and Westbrook goes back to averaging 8-9 apg.

On top of that, OKC was dead last in assists in 2012 when Harden had his biggest role with OKC, but before that they were never that bad and now OKC is one of the top 10 teams in assists this season.

It's the "Harden effect" whether you want to accept it or not.

[NYKMELO7]

what a stupid thread

[DreDay]

Melo by far. Harden is a 3rd option at best, is a ballstopper, gets paid too much for his skillset, not marketable, lacks a true offensive aresenal, a sieve on defense. Melo might be some of those things but not on the level of Max Contract Harden.

So now that all else has failed, the Harden bashers are latching onto ball-stopping as a last ditch effort to justify their wrong opinions. Hilarious.

Wrong? Laughable. Try to prove this wrong:

I'm no Lin fan, but he's a spot up shooter now. With Harden out, he started controlling the ball more and performed better.
OKC dead last in assists last year with Harden, Westbrook averaged around 6 a game.
Without Harden this year, Westbrook is now averaging around 8 a game.

All of these point to being a ballstopper. If I bothered to look at ISO attempts, I'm sure they will show the same thing.

I admit, Melo might be the exact same thing. But he's 1000x better at it than Harden.

[Young_Star11]

Definitely more comfortable with Melo at the max than Harden at the max, but these types of threads go back to underrating the ability of Harden.

Still only 23 and only started 28 NBA games.

[rrravenred]

what a stupid thread

Then please try and improve it with arguments and evidence. Don't just come in and post-pad with a "you all suck" post.