The Kevin Durant Thread

[spearsy23]

Could Lebron use fatigue as an excuse when Bosh went down? What about when Bynum went down for the Lakers? Nah **** that Durant is going to get toasted and i look forward to it.

A Lebron fan trying to tear down the accomplishments of Durant? That's a first...right? I'm willing to bet you're one of the first in line to give Lebron a 'pass' for Cleveland (not that that's wrong). At this point OKC is up against a better team AND outmanned, KD is 25 and going up against the best team in the NBA. No excuses? You're right, because he doesn't need any. He's the MVP, he's been great throughout the playoffs, and he's still got 2-3 years before being Lebron or MJ's age when they won their first title, and he's missing a 3rd all star caliber player...

Really? He's looked abysmal these playoffs for the most part. All his advanced numbers are so down across the board but screw numbers for the most part he's not even looked as good as last year let alone his godly RS self from this year. He looks gassed, disinterested to me. Whatever negative attention/blame that will come his way, he'll deserve it. All the greats went through the same hoops. Who are we kidding though the blame will probably fall squarely on wb and brooks.

31/9.5/4
58% ts
23.2 PER

He's been abysmal? What does a 'good' playoff run look like to you?

[spearsy23]

"GOAT level player"

"Better than peak Duncan'

'Better than peak Wade"

"Better than peak Kobe"

Maybe now people will stop overreacting to regular season performances but I doubt it.

I dont remember anyone calling him Goat level........

As for the last 2 he certainly has a case over peak Kobe and Wade.

Kobe most assuredly, peak Wade was insanely good though, KD isn't out of the conversation with him but Wade was one of the best peaks I've ever seen.

[O_6]

Durant vs. NBA2014: 32/7/6 on .503/.391/.873 (39 MPG)
Durant vs. Memphis: 30/10/3 on .440/.321/.767 (46 MPG)
Durant vs. Clippers: 33/10/5 on .470/.385/.879 (43 MPG)

.635 TS% during NBA regular season
.543 TS% vs. Memphis
.610 TS% vs. LAC

Durant has had an impressive playoff run thus far. Any player who averages 30/10 in the playoffs is doing something special. I think one thing Durant has proven is that he is more than just a scorer. He is a valuable rebounder and his length makes him a plus defender, and this year he improved his playmaking for others. Just a beast of an overall player coming off a sensational regular season. He took the MVP from LeBron and he earned it. LeBron may still be the best player in the game, but Durant deserved the MVP. And to "deserve" an MVP in a year that includes prime LeBron is impressive. He had the most impressive scoring season from an efficiency/volume standpoint since peak Jordan. You could argue that Kobe's 06 was more impressive but I'd lean Durant.

Hands Down MVP over LeBron...
Best Scorer since Jordan...

Durant deserved that kind of praise after the regular season he had. But I think these playoffs are showing that he is not quite as "unstoppable" as he looked in the regular season.

The series against Memphis was well below average compared to his usual standards. That's because Memphis is a great defense led by Allen, Conley, and Gasol. Tony Allen in particular is the best perimeter defender in the league today when healthy and he clearly bothered Durant. Allen was quicker and stronger than Durant and has a high defensive IQ. Durant still doesn't have a strong enough post-game to take advantage of his height edge over Allen. Durant averaged 30/10, but it was over 46 MPG.

.635 TS% in the regular season vs. 543 TS% against Memphis. That is nearly a .100 TS% difference, but imagine what the true TS% Durant shot against Tony Allen was? I'm guessing it was very close to .500 or maybe even less. That's a pretty damn impressive job by Allen.

Tony Allen is my choice for the best perimeter defender in the league when healthy. There are others in the mix but Allen is at the top imo. And he went out and did a tremendous job guarding Durant. Did such a great job that Memphis almost stole the series. And Durant had a great series against the Clippers, but it was almost as if he didn't go all-out because of Westbrook. The Clips have a mediocre perimeter defense, Barnes just cannot guard Durant no matter how hard he tries. Durant did close with a 39/16 but I just wouldn't call this a truly great series from him compared to the expectations.

Compared to his epic MVP season Standards
1 Bad Series vs. Memphis
1 Good Series vs. Clippers
0 Epic Series (36 PPG -- .630 TS% type series vs. Clips perimeter D)

And now he's off to a slow start against the Spurs. Looking like major underdogs with no Ibaka to protect the rim and hit open jumpers. As of today I'd say that Durant's playoffs have been good but lacking, he is coming off a historic regular season but this hasn't been a historic playoffs.

Huge couple of games in OKC coming up. I hope he goes down swinging and drops some big scoring games on the Spurs, it's the only way they can win this series.

[orangeparka]

What people mean is that KD isn't playing up to the enormous standards he's set with his excellent regular season play. Obviously he's still playing like a top player in the league, maybe just not at that level we've come to expect from him.

Overall his averages and stats are great. He's just had a lot of stinkers and some games where he was clearly carried/invisible. But this is the type of stuff that won't matter in the long run.

We'll see how he responds. So far he's done fabulously in that regard, and I expect a huge game from him and a nice win in Game 3.

This is his time to shine.

[spearsy23]

There's only been 10 playoff seasons in bball references database with 30/9/4 on >55 ts%. This is the worst of them, but the players to do it are Lebron, Durant, Kareem, Hakeem, and Oscar. Let's have some perspective here, anyone calling it anything less than a very good post-season is just flat out wrong.

[The Infamous1]

KD had a good scoring game, but i'm seeing a pattern I don't like. He is a turnover machine when asked to quarterback more of the offense than he's been accustomed to with Westbrook.

Those simple pick and pop passes to Ibaka that I would bet accounted for a great portion of his assists are gone, and as the passing lanes get more convoluted it's only going to get more difficult. He is very good at making the easy pass to an option he's created with his scoring threat, but when teams start jumping the lanes in anticipation it seems like that's the extent of his bag of tricks, passing wise.

Of the great wing players of the last 20 plus years(Lebron,Jordan,Tmac,Kobe,Wade etc)he's far and away the worst playmaker. I said it before, I don't think he can be the primary ball handler or playmaker on a championship team.

[Quotatious]

There's only been 10 playoff seasons in bball references database with 30/9/4 on >55 ts%. This is the worst of them, but the players to do it are Lebron, Durant, Kareem, Hakeem, and Oscar. Let's have some perspective here, anyone calling it anything less than a very good post-season is just flat out wrong.

It is a very good postseason, and would be a career-best offensive postseason for all but maybe 10-15 players in NBA history. However, it's not the best postseason in Durant's career. 2012 and 2013 were better. Sure, Durant's raw stats are almost the same as in the regular season, but his more advanced numbers are a lot worse. Clearly regressed in TS% (63.5% down to 57.2%), PER (29.8 down to just 22.6), or WS/48 (29.5 down to just 15.1). These metrics were higher in the past two playoffs for him, and his regular seasons were worse than 2014, so the difference in terms of his level of play was smaller than it is now. It's really that simple - people criticize Durant for his playoff performance this year, because by his own standards, it's not that great. In the absolute sense, compared to most of the other players, it's awesome, but indications are that he's capable of playing a bit better. Sure, competition has something to do with that (he wasn't that good shooting-wise last year against the same Grizzlies team, either, shooting just about 42/36/78 for 53% TS, with 29/10/7 on 54% TS, compared to this year's 30/10/3, so his level of play was very similar both years, but obviously he had to take it all upon himself to carry the Thunder with Westbrook out with torn meniscus, he had to be a do-it-all player, the main scorer and the main playmaker, which isn't a natural role for him - it makes his 2013 series vs MEM look more impressive than 2014). I know that some people here may not like such a simplistic way to explain it as mentioning a few metrics based on boxscore, but I think it's a good enough explanation in this case.

Anyway, I wouldn't really make a big deal of his "struggles" (in quotation marks because these might be struggles only by his own standards - it'd be fantastic for any other player, except LeBron James), unless he plays like that for the rest of the OKC vs SAS series - (it indeed WOULD be a fairly big deal, but I think he'll play better in the next few games. I don't particularly care if the Thunder lose, one - because team results shouldn't really matter when we evaluate individual players, and two - losing Ibaka was a really crushing blow for OKC - for example, they allowed 120 points in the paint for the last two games. His presence in the midrange area offensively, being able to knock down jumpers, will also be missed a lot.

[Greatness]

He hasn't been that good actually if you count defense which is half of the game. He's a complete liability on that end (whether it's fatigue or whatever) and offensively he hans't been that efficient and is turning it over at an alarming pace. The advanced stats show that he's been not very good on offense and terrible on D.

[Swagalicious]

He has been very anti-clutch, committing 4 turnovers to only 4.2 assists, while being invisible on defense and putting up empty stats (at times). His playoff run has been VERY underwhelming. People need to look beyond stats my goodness.

[JVL]

He has been very anti-clutch, committing 4 turnovers to only 4.2 assists, while being invisible on defense and putting up empty stats (at times). His playoff run has been VERY underwhelming. People need to look beyond stats my goodness.

I doubt many watch the games. I'm big on stats, but sometimes you need to watch the game and analyze numbers, not do either of them and call it sufficient to base your analysis on.

Durant has been underwhelming so far.

[PaulieWal]

He has been very anti-clutch, committing 4 turnovers to only 4.2 assists, while being invisible on defense and putting up empty stats (at times). His playoff run has been VERY underwhelming. People need to look beyond stats my goodness.

I doubt many watch the games. I'm big on stats, but sometimes you need to watch the game and analyze numbers, not do either of them and call it sufficient to base your analysis on.

Durant has been underwhelming so far.

I don't think "underwhelming" is the right word. I think a better description would be an 'up and down' run. He has had some stinkers and he has had some good games. Yes, he is getting his numbers but his defense has regressed considerably and his playmaking hasn't been impressive at all.

I also think there might be a blueprint developing for slowing him down. The blueprint on LeBron is to dare him to shoot, pack the paint and force the others to beat you. With KD, the formula is to put a smaller guy on him who can be physical with him, deny him the ball, and similar to LeBron, pack the paint and throw double-triple teams at him to make the others (Russ) beat you.

[Swagalicious]

He has been very anti-clutch, committing 4 turnovers to only 4.2 assists, while being invisible on defense and putting up empty stats (at times). His playoff run has been VERY underwhelming. People need to look beyond stats my goodness.

I doubt many watch the games. I'm big on stats, but sometimes you need to watch the game and analyze numbers, not do either of them and call it sufficient to base your analysis on.

Durant has been underwhelming so far.

I mean on paper it definitely looks like an incredible, all-time worthy stat line and it still IS a great stat line. But that's where it ends imo. Prior to the playoffs, people were putting KD on and even above peak Kobe/Wade/T-Mac level. He might still even have better numbers than those guys, but here's what he doesn't do:

- Defensively, it's a laughable comparison. Kobe in his 7 Finals runs was playing elite defense. Wade in 2006 not so much, but he was still very good and a net positive rather than a friggin liability. In 2011 he was again elite on defense.

And that's just the playoffs. Peak Kobe (depending on which version you take; 03/06/07/08) was at the very worst slightly better and at best (03/08) vastly superior to KD defensively. Dwyane Wade when healthy has always been a plus defender, with his best season (09) being in another stratosphere than what KD has shown so far...Tracy during the 03 was carrying a real heavy offensive burden but he got up for the tough matchups and was probably around KD's level on that end...without the drop-off in the PO.

- Offensivley, those guys were masterful moving the ball. Kobe working the triangle in the 01/08-10 playoffs was basketball perfection, Wade was essentially Miami's point guard before LeBron and peak Tracy didn't go up 3-1 on Detroit because he was stagnating the offense. Tracy was a phenomenal playmaker at the elbow area.

KD is doing just that. Apart from his assists, his facilitating is pretty bad for a superstar wing. When he moves the ball around he's just moving it around most of the time, he's not really seeing a play developing or trying to initiate one...and when he does pass on the attack (not talking the "stand at 3pt line pass the ball to the guy next to you" type) out it's usually to a shooter who will be expected to hit the shot no matter what or to Westbrook...the latter option will usually try to develop a play, resulting in a bad shot with little time left on the clock. KD probably has the highest bailout pass:good pass ratio of any ATG wing player

- Clutch? Nope. A big nope. He has contributed some extremely clutch turnovers, missed field goals, missed free throws and ball-stopping, though. Westbrook's been a great bail-out. And I don't think I need to explain how clutch D-Wade was in 06 or 11, or how clutch Kobe was throughout the three-peat and repeat...Kid Clutch has frozen in crunchtime of these playoffs.

This might sound like I'm hating, which I'm not, but people need to stop with those ridiculous comparisons. KD in these playoffs is NOT displaying the all-around game that people should expect from someone who's being compared to peak Kobe or Wade. I hope FT35 can turn this thing around because I love watching him get hot and go crazy, and I'd love to see Westbrook competing in the Finals again, but so far...no excuses people. It is what it is. Look beyond the stat sheet.

[spearsy23]

Look beyond the stat sheet? That usually implies 'look at wins' or 'hold the final 2 minutes in more esteem than the rest of the game.' The thunder are in the conference finals, looking beyond the stat line he has still had good playoffs. Nobody is saying his playoff performance has been an all-time great, but acting like he's been bad is either stupid or pushing an agenda.

[microfib4thewin]

I don't think "underwhelming" is the right word. I think a better description would be an 'up and down' run. He has had some stinkers and he has had some good games. Yes, he is getting his numbers but his defense has regressed considerably and his playmaking hasn't been impressive at all.

I also think there might be a blueprint developing for slowing him down. The blueprint on LeBron is to dare him to shoot, pack the paint and force the others to beat you. With KD, the formula is to put a smaller guy on him who can be physical with him, deny him the ball, and similar to LeBron, pack the paint and throw double-triple teams at him to make the others (Russ) beat you.

I agree. When he has a bad game he might as well not play. At least Lebron in the 2011 Finals was doing the other things even though he couldn't score for whatever reason. Durant is pretty much useless when he's not shooting well.

[JVL]

Look beyond the stat sheet? That usually implies 'look at wins' or 'hold the final 2 minutes in more esteem than the rest of the game.' The thunder are in the conference finals, looking beyond the stat line he has still had good playoffs. Nobody is saying his playoff performance has been an all-time great, but acting like he's been bad is either stupid or pushing an agenda.

Statistically, he's having the worst playoff run since his Rookie year. You can't look at the raw stats and claim they are simply good, which they are. You have to look at context too, they are not good enough for the bar that Durant has raised for himself. Hence the word "underwhelming". For every other player except Lebron James this would've been a good statistical round of playoffs, but it's not enough for Durant.

Besides, you bring up the argument that since he's in the Conference Finals means he's had a good playoff run so far. Let's have a look at that crucial conference finals then, first 2 games:
21.5/6/3.5 on 45.7%/36.3%/77.7% in 2 blowout losses. Not good enough.

[Swagalicious]

Look beyond the stat sheet? That usually implies 'look at wins' or 'hold the final 2 minutes in more esteem than the rest of the game.' The thunder are in the conference finals, looking beyond the stat line he has still had good playoffs. Nobody is saying his playoff performance has been an all-time great, but acting like he's been bad is either stupid or pushing an agenda.

I never said he was bad. Underwhelming has been the most frequently used word regarding his play itt. Not bad, or awful or whatever. Looking beyond the stat sheet means watching the game in its entirety, THEN check the stats to see how they add up with what you saw. Pay close attention to how his play affects momenutm, his stagnating of the offense and his lazy ass defense. That's what you don't see on the stat sheet at all.

[spearsy23]

I don't think "underwhelming" is the right word. I think a better description would be an 'up and down' run. He has had some stinkers and he has had some good games. Yes, he is getting his numbers but his defense has regressed considerably and his playmaking hasn't been impressive at all.

I also think there might be a blueprint developing for slowing him down. The blueprint on LeBron is to dare him to shoot, pack the paint and force the others to beat you. With KD, the formula is to put a smaller guy on him who can be physical with him, deny him the ball, and similar to LeBron, pack the paint and throw double-triple teams at him to make the others (Russ) beat you.

I agree. When he has a bad game he might as well not play. At least Lebron in the 2011 Finals was doing the other things even though he couldn't score for whatever reason. Durant is pretty much useless when he's not shooting well.

Is rebounding no longer a part of basketball?

[spearsy23]

Look beyond the stat sheet? That usually implies 'look at wins' or 'hold the final 2 minutes in more esteem than the rest of the game.' The thunder are in the conference finals, looking beyond the stat line he has still had good playoffs. Nobody is saying his playoff performance has been an all-time great, but acting like he's been bad is either stupid or pushing an agenda.

I never said he was bad. Underwhelming has been the most frequently used word regarding his play itt. Not bad, or awful or whatever. Looking beyond the stat sheet means watching the game in its entirety, THEN check the stats to see how they add up with what you saw. Pay close attention to how his play affects momenutm, his stagnating of the offense and his lazy ass defense. That's what you don't see on the stat sheet at all.

So you're saying make the stats fit what you saw? Your eye test isn't a better indicator of what's happening than the stats. Tell me what offense he's stagnating? The Thunder don't run an offense, you can't stagnate something that's non-existant. Their "offense" is 'hey KD you and Russ get the ball and try to score, if Serge is wide open throw him the ball, if Perkins or Thabo is open throw the ball away because getting it to them is a turnover anyway."

Edit: and I have no problem with saying he's been underwhelming in regards to the bar he's set. I do take issue with 'very bad' or 'abysmal' and that's the only reason I'm arguing for him.

[PCProductions]

Ignoring all stats, I think Durant' defense has been really disappointing by the eye test. He's been a borderline liability on that end at times, and this was the year that he made the big leap defensively.

[GSP]

Ignoring all stats, I think Durant' defense has been really disappointing by the eye test. He's been a borderline liability on that end at times, and this was the year that he made the big leap defensively.

I never bought into that leap defensively in the regular season. Its strange b/c i remember Kd being a really good defender in 2010 but IIRC Okc let go of a key defensive coach that year and they seem to rely too much on their length and athleticism to bail them out more now