More overrated: Garnett or Nash

[Grandpa Waiters]

Which player is more overrated in terms of historical greatness?

[JeremyGray35]

Garnett. He's considered greater than better players like Malone by some because of his ring. Nash is considered great because of a truly remarkable career.

[Quotatious]

Neither is really overrated.

Bastillon will LOVE this thread. If you only added Hakeem...

[Okada]

Both are extremely overrated. I can't even choose. Two way tie. Maybe a slight edge to Nash.

[nikomCH]

Garnett. He's considered greater than better players like Malone by some because of his ring. Nash is considered great because of a truly remarkable career.

I can't think of a single person here who only ranks Garnett higher than K. Malone because of his ring.

[Prokorov]

Nash. in this forum the guy is like some demi-god. his offensive impact is compared to jordan, even with threads made arguing and even concluding he had a higher offensive impact then MJ did.

People use his advanced stats here to say he was elite, then dismiss advanced stats when comparing him to stockton.

the guy was good offensive player. he won 2 pretty underserving MVPs and played in a system that has kendall marshall looking like a top 10 PG

[NO-KG-AI]

Both are very underrated by the uninformed.

[TrueLAfan]

Loaded question. What do you mean by “overrated”? Is thinking that Kevin Garnett is a top 15-20 player overrating him? Is thinking Steve Nash is in the Top 30 overrating him? I’m not sure what the context here is.

It makes me think of a past thread about Hakeem (the reference to bastillon also reminded me of Hakeem ). The thread title was, essentially “Is Hakeem Overrated”? And, like now, I didn’t understand the context of that. I remember saying something along the lines of “If you’ve got Hakeem above #4 or 5, you’re probably overrating him. If you’ve got him below #15, you’re probably underrating him.”

I’d say something similar here. If you’ve got Kevin Garnett as a top 10 player, you’re probably overrating him. If you’ve got him out of the top 25, you’re probably underrating him. I think a substantial majority of people here would put KG between about 14 or 15 and 25. If you dropped those by about 10 spaces, you’d get the same answer for Nash.

[Okada]

Both are very underrated by the uninformed.

I'm glad I'm uninformed then. Because it seems like the 'informed' here are 14 year olds who have only looked at basketball-reference, never watched an actual game of basketball and think the sport is defined by WS/48.

[rrravenred]

Keep it nice and your comments constructive, or this thread ends very soon.

[rrravenred]

And on-topic... well it depends on what you mean, on who's doing the overrating and on what grounds.

KG and Nash are useful stalking horses for a dislike for advanced statistics as well as for those who treat team achievements as individual ones (not ALWAYS the same people).

Both perform strongly under advanced statistical analysis and both enjoyed limited team success by all-time great standards. If we're asking "by Grandpa Waiters way of assessing players which of these two players is ranked furthest above his station by the great unwashed" then that's a question that only one person can answer. The presumption that both are overrated is built into the question shows that there is at least a slight agenda in the topic being brought up, of course.

[Grandpa Waiters]

And on-topic... well it depends on what you mean, on who's doing the overrating and on what grounds.

KG and Nash are useful stalking horses for a dislike for advanced statistics as well as for those who treat team achievements as individual ones (not ALWAYS the same people).

Both perform strongly under advanced statistical analysis and both enjoyed limited team success by all-time great standards. If we're asking "by Grandpa Waiters way of assessing players which of these two players is ranked furthest above his station by the great unwashed" then that's a question that only one person can answer. The presumption that both are overrated is built into the question shows that there is at least a slight agenda in the topic being brought up, of course.

The only agenda I have is to start a new discussion on this forum because I'm tired of looking at the same old threads.

[Basketballefan]

Are u talking about just on realgm? If so its close but id say nash is a little more overrated ive seen him put in some top 20s even though he never even made a finals appearence...some on here put garnett top 15 and although i disagree he got a better case for top 15 than nash does for top 20 just my opinion.

[SideshowBob]

The idea that both of them are overrated is, frankly, overrated.

[rrravenred]

The idea that both of them are overrated is, frankly, overrated.

More seriously, rating is personal and there are no wrong ratings, only really shoddy methodologies for coming to ratings...

[Grandpa Waiters]

The idea that both of them are overrated is, frankly, overrated.

KG. The guy who got bounced in the first round seven consecutive years. The guy who only got a ring after teaming up with Pierce and Allen. No FMVP and only one MVP in a career that's lasted longer than some posters have been alive. The guy I've seen placed in a few top ten lists and most top fifteen lists.

Nash. The guy who couldn't shoot 50% OR average double digit assists for the first eight years of his career being labeled the greatest shooter/passer by many. The guy who has the weakest resume, BY FAR, of any multiple MVP winner ever. The guy who has more MVP's than West, Oscar, Baylor, Havlicek, Parrish, McHale, Isiah, Dominique, King, Ewing, Pippen, Paul, and Durant have....COMBINED. The guy who never even PLAYED in an NBA Finals game let alone won a championship who ranks in many top twenty lists and a few top 15

I think you can make compelling arguments that both players are overrated to varying degrees.

[Witzig-Okashi]

The idea that both of them are overrated is, frankly, overrated.

KG. The guy who got bounced in the first round seven consecutive years. The guy who only got a ring after teaming up with Pierce and Allen. No FMVP and only one MVP in a career that's lasted longer than some posters have been alive. The guy I've seen placed in a few top ten lists and most top fifteen lists.

Nash. The guy who couldn't shoot 50% OR average double digit assists for the first eight years of his career being labeled the greatest shooter/passer by many. The guy who has the weakest resume, BY FAR, of any multiple MVP winner ever. The guy who has more MVP's than West, Oscar, Baylor, Havlicek, Parrish, McHale, Isiah, Dominique, King, Ewing, Pippen, Paul, and Durant have....COMBINED. The guy who never even PLAYED in an NBA Finals game let alone won a championship who ranks in many top twenty lists and a few top 15

I think you can make compelling arguments that both players are overrated to varying degrees.

Frankly, sometimes I wonder if you post these things to just get a rise out of people.
I also wonder how much broad generalizations you are making of a few people's ratings with KG and Nash and act as if every 8 out of 10 realgm users (or people) treat Nash and KG as top 20, 15 players of all time.

Your obsession with Nash and 50% FG is almost as puzzling as JordanBulls's fascination with HCA and rating players. It's not as if Nash was shooting 40% from the field like Stackhouse or Iverson circa 2000 during his years in Dallas and D'Antoni made him a ATG shooter. he was around 47/40/88 during his time as a Maverick, and not to mention he was a part of the best rated offense (OTRG and PPG) in the NBA during his last 3 seasons in Dallas.
It's nothing to turn a nose at. And I don't have Nash in my top 20, either....

I also think it's a bit unfair to penalize him for a large portion of his playoff exits. His best teammates were Terrell Brandon, Chauncey Billups, Sprewell, and Cassell. I believe Szczerbiak and Cassell had injury problems during the 04 season. Not to mention that Marbury wanted out of Minnesota b/c of a contract dispute. Those three years of missing the posteason in his prime isn't very favorable for him, though.
Nonetheless, I think KG being a top 20 player is quite feasible if context is taken into account, and well as his individual impact. If anything, I think Oscar and KG are quite similar in that regard. I've said in an earlier post that I would reconsider KG's standing whenever I get around to reevaluating him and other players. I don't have a definitive all-time list (and I generally stay away because the need to evaluate players concisely again), but I think of KG as a 14-20 player for now..

Your explanation for KG and Nash's overrated status will be seen by many as lacking by many excluding those who already agree with you because your premise is lacking context. This isn't the first time you've stated these things on realgm and your evidence is going to have to be more elaborate to convince other people.

Just my opinion, and a few thoughts...

[MacGill]

I wish I was old enough to know what basketball-reference is?

And defining 'overrated' would be helpful as there isn't a master end all list as to where they are edged in stone here.

[Grandpa Waiters]

The idea that both of them are overrated is, frankly, overrated.

KG. The guy who got bounced in the first round seven consecutive years. The guy who only got a ring after teaming up with Pierce and Allen. No FMVP and only one MVP in a career that's lasted longer than some posters have been alive. The guy I've seen placed in a few top ten lists and most top fifteen lists.

Nash. The guy who couldn't shoot 50% OR average double digit assists for the first eight years of his career being labeled the greatest shooter/passer by many. The guy who has the weakest resume, BY FAR, of any multiple MVP winner ever. The guy who has more MVP's than West, Oscar, Baylor, Havlicek, Parrish, McHale, Isiah, Dominique, King, Ewing, Pippen, Paul, and Durant have....COMBINED. The guy who never even PLAYED in an NBA Finals game let alone won a championship who ranks in many top twenty lists and a few top 15

I think you can make compelling arguments that both players are overrated to varying degrees.

Frankly, sometimes I wonder if you post these things to just get a rise out of people.
I also wonder how much broad generalizations you are making of a few people's ratings with KG and Nash and act as if every 8 out of 10 realgm users (or people) treat Nash and KG as top 20, 15 players of all time.

Your obsession with Nash and 50% FG is almost as puzzling as JordanBulls's fascination with HCA and rating players. It's not as if Nash was shooting 40% from the field like Stackhouse or Iverson circa 2000 during his years in Dallas and D'Antoni made him a ATG shooter. he was around 47/40/88 during his time as a Maverick, and not to mention he was a part of the best rated offense (OTRG and PPG) in the NBA during his last 3 seasons in Dallas.
It's nothing to turn a nose at. And I don't have Nash in my top 20, either....

I also think it's a bit unfair to penalize him for a large portion of his playoff exits. His best teammates were Terrell Brandon, Chauncey Billups, Sprewell, and Cassell. I believe Szczerbiak and Cassell had injury problems during the 04 season. Not to mention that Marbury wanted out of Minnesota b/c of a contract dispute. Those three years of missing the posteason in his prime isn't very favorable for him, though.
Nonetheless, I think KG being a top 20 player is quite feasible if context is taken into account, and well as his individual impact. If anything, I think Oscar and KG are quite similar in that regard. I've said in an earlier post that I would reconsider KG's standing whenever I get around to reevaluating him and other players. I don't have a definitive all-time list (and I generally stay away because the need to evaluate players concisely again), but I think of KG as a 14-20 player for now..

Your explanation for KG and Nash's overrated status will be seen by many as lacking by many excluding those who already agree with you because your premise is lacking context. This isn't the first time you've stated these things on realgm and your evidence is going to have to be more elaborate to convince other people.

Just my opinion, and a few thoughts...

I'm not trying to get a rise out of people, just trying to start a new thread as I'm tired of reading the same ones over and over again. As far as Nash goes I only bring up his FG% because many on these forums like to dismiss his first eight years which is nearly HALF of his career. To believe that D'antoni and his uptempo offense coupled with the rule changes in '04-'05 had nothing to do with Nash's mid career resurgence is dubious at best. I don't give KG any slack because of two simple words: Scottie Pippen. MJ retires and Pippen leads the Bulls to a 55-27 record and one phantom foul call by Hue Hollins to a possible berth in the ECF. The supporting cast Pippen had (Paxson, Cartwright, Grant, Armstrong, Pete Myers etc) wasn't much of an upgrade from KG's teams in Minnesota. The fact that that KG couldn't do what Pippen did (get out of the first round) in seven consecutive post seasons is inexcusable for a player many posters claim to be a top 10-15-20 player. Many posters give KG the benefit of the doubt and excuse his failures and shortcomings while they trash someone like Pippen over a migraine that happened before he won any of his six chips. It doesn't make much sense. You can be a great player and still be overrated. I believe both KG and Nash are overrated by most on RealGM. My two cents.

[DK-All Day]

Neither but If I had to choose it would be Nash.

He doesn't strike me as a MVP. His stats were inflated due to playing in D'Antoni's Run & Gun offense. He's had some very good teams yet the furthest he ever made it in the playoffs were the WCF. Great player but not top 40 player more like 50ish.