Start a Franchise: Wilt Or Bird?

[The Infamous1]

If you were starting a team from scratch, who would you rather have Wilt or Larry Bird?

[Quotatious]

Bird is a safer bet. He'd play PF today, and basically be a superior version of Kevin Love. His ability to the handle the ball would allow him to play SF on offense, and PF on defense. I'll take that.

With Wilt, we don't even really know what kind of a player he would be today. If I get the mid career version of Wilt, already about 285-300 lbs, playing to his strengths (close to the basket, taking advantage of his size and bullying people inside like Shaq) without staying too much in the mid/high post (it'd be a waste of his size and strength to be a playmaker), he would be an even better choice, with his big defensive edge over Bird, but Wilt was basically so many different players throughout his career that it's hard to really pinpoint what Wilt exactly was as a player. I feel like there might a bit too much risk involved, and would rather go for Bird. Chamberlain would still be an athletic freak even today, so he has a very nice foundation to build on, but Bird was still a relatively modern player, so he's just a safer bet.

[GSP]

Ill take Larry Legend. He knew who he was, strengths and weaknesses. Wilt had to change his game so much im not sure how his consistency would hold up. W/ the 3pt shooting emphasis in this era and medical improvements i think Larry would be more consistent in the playoff ITO injury and hed clearly be the best offensive player ever IMO. He already has a strong case as is w/ a much less emphasized 3pt era. Hes pretty much Dirk w/ far superior passing and playmaking and it didnt take him several years to complete his game like Dirk since he was as complete as a rookie got

[ThunderDan9]

Wilt was traded in his prime. Twice.
Larry Bird should be the safer bet here.

[JordansBulls]

I'd take Bird here less headaches and someone who actually maximizes his potential for the betterment of the team.

[G35]

I'll take Wilt. He led two of the all time great teams in the NBA history.

It's hard to find teams better than the 67 Sixers that won 68 games and ended the Celtic run or the 72 Lakers that have the longest winning streak ever and won 69 games.

The real difference is potential; Larry got everything out of his body that he could. He also got put into an amazing situation straight from the beginning with an organization that was known for taking advantage of other teams. Larry also doesn't have longevity.

Wilt pulled a Jim Brown retiring when he could have played several more years and he owned most of the record book. Put him in a similar situation as say Duncan, Magic, or Larry and he would win you more than 3 titles.....

[ballfan5]

In the current NBA there is a huge deficit at the c position. Wilt in todays game would dominate. Bird would still be great but he would not be the best in the game. Wilt with his athleticism would be the best player in the league right now.

[ardee]

Undoubtedly Wilt.

He dominated on a level nobody reached in '67. He was far more durable and showed he could lead an a very questionable team to nearly topple a dynasty in '62. If Sam Jones misses that shot we call that season THE all time carry job.

Bird was the GOAT forward and was a better offensive player but the gap isn't huge, while Wilt crushes him in rebounding/defense/durability.

Gotta be Wilt.

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[penbeast0]

Agree, Wilt and it isn't even close. Bird came close to equaling Wilt's career because he was in a favorable situation and came very close to maximizing his potential. Wilt's potential is so much higher though, you have to take Wilt and try to motivate him to think about the game correctly or else just built a team around his strengths and weaknesses like they did Shaq or Dwight.

[GSP]

Undoubtedly Wilt.

He dominated on a level nobody reached in '67. He was far more durable and showed he could lead an a very questionable team to nearly topple a dynasty in '62. If Sam Jones misses that shot we call that season THE all time carry job.

Bird was the GOAT forward and was a better offensive player but the gap isn't huge, while Wilt crushes him in rebounding/defense/durability.

Gotta be Wilt.

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The offensive gap is huge for career. Wilt fluctuated too much sometimes he was much more impactful on D than O

[The Infamous1]

Agree, Wilt and it isn't even close. Bird came close to equaling Wilt's career because he was in a favorable situation and came very close to maximizing his potential. Wilt's potential is so much higher though, you have to take Wilt and try to motivate him to think about the game correctly or else just built a team around his strengths and weaknesses like they did Shaq or Dwight.

How did bird better come in a better situation? The C's were awful.

I agree that Bird during his prime(84-88)had GOAT level supporting casts particularly 86 but wilts Sixers and teams and the lakers werent that far off. They played with comparable talent overall during the course of their primes coaching bird has the advantage

[Warspite]

Wilt was traded in his prime. Twice.
Larry Bird should be the safer bet here.

Salary Cap fixes that. Wilt was traded from Golden State because the team couldnt afford him. He was traded to the sixers to save that franchise which had just moved from Syracuse. Its much easier to afford Wilts 14mil a season today. Any team can afford a max salary player today.

Im taking WIlt because of the ease to build around him.

[GSP]

Agree, Wilt and it isn't even close. Bird came close to equaling Wilt's career because he was in a favorable situation and came very close to maximizing his potential. Wilt's potential is so much higher though, you have to take Wilt and try to motivate him to think about the game correctly or else just built a team around his strengths and weaknesses like they did Shaq or Dwight.

How did bird better come in a better situation? The C's were awful.

I agree that Bird during his prime(84-88)had GOAT level supporting casts particularly 86 but wilts Sixers and teams and the lakers werent that far off. They played with comparable talent overall during the course of their primes coaching bird has the advantage

Bill Sharman and Alex Hannum were better than any coach Bird had to work with

[Basketballefan]

I choose Chamberlain.

[Quotatious]

Bill Sharman and Alex Hannum were better than any coach Bird had to work with

Not necessarily. Bill Fitch was a great coach, too. Looking at his negative coaching record, you might not think so, but he often coached teams with little talent, like the 70s Cavs or mid 90s Clippers. When he had good teams, he sure won a lot of games...Like three 60-win seasons and one other 56 win season in Boston early in Bird's career, and the finals appearance with young Hakeem and the Rockets in 1986, when they defeated the Showtime Lakers in the WCF in a really convincing fashion. I can't find the quote, but I remember Bird said that he learned more about basketball from Fitch than any other person. It's not a coincidence that he spent more than 25 years as an NBA head coach, coached in over 2000 NBA games (third all-time), and was officially chosen as one of the top 10 coaches in NBA history.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygj7GZ1pBqI[/youtube]

[ThaRegul8r]

Bill Sharman and Alex Hannum were better than any coach Bird had to work with

Not necessarily.

Alex Hannum-coached teams are the only teams to have ever beaten any team led by Bill Russell.

Let the enormity of that sink in. Hannum is the only common denominator in the only two seasons in which Bill Russell failed to win a title. The only occasions in Bill Russell's college, Olympic and pro careers that he didn't win a title, Alex Hannum was standing on the other side of the court.

He's also the first coach to win titles in the NBA and ABA.

[Brenice]

You draft Wilt as a 1 and done out of Kansas and don't let him get globetrotter in his blood.

[penbeast0]

Celts weren't a bad team when they got Bird. They were aging, with Cowens, Archibald, etc. on the down side of 30 but with those two, some solid (but also aging) role players, Bird, and another young talented forward in Cornbread Maxwell (1 year older than Bird and Finals MVP the next year -- as well as coming up ridiculously high on efficiency ratings), they won 61 games right away.

Then they fleeced the Warriors out of Parish and McHale for a top draft choice (Joe Barely Cares Carroll) and they were off to the races. When were they untalented again?

[tsherkin]

Gotta take Wilt.

Huge Bird fan, think he'd be fantastic now, but not good enough.

Bird basically played a contemporary scoring forward's game; the 3pt emphasis wouldn't change anything for him. Medical technology and training techniques, absolutely, but he wouldn't shoot the 3 a ton more than he already did, especially compared to his prime.

Wilt was a coachable guy; you catch a coach who tells him to park his gigantic body by the rim, he'd be fine today. You don't need/want 40 ppg out of him, so there's be no reason to spam anything but close shots. He was a solid passer at worst, better than someone like Dwight, so he'd likely fit well into a competent offensive scheme. It hasn't been that long since Dwight anchored Orlando to the Finals. Wilt was bigger and better in largely every aspect ofthe game; so I'm not seeing a great reason to think Wilt would be anything but dominant.

Then pause to consider matchups: how many guys would provide even token resistance to that sort of player?

I'm inclined to side with Wilt here because he'd give some strong offensive presence, would murder the boards at either end and would exert a notable impact on D.

Bird would be great, but I'd bet on the big here.

[thizznation]

Even with the enormous basketball talent that Bird possessed, Wilt had more.

I agree with Tsherkin about Wilt being a very coachable player. He was always willing to please and dramatically changed his playstyle multiple times over the course of his career. If he was able to be coached as a modern day player he would be a smarter Dwight Howard defensively with much better offense and passing. He would be a centerpiece that would be easy to build around and he would probably be the most dominant player in the league along with LeBron James.