Replace CP3 & Blake with Prime Gary Payton & Shawn Kemp

TheBomb81 · Post #1 » by **TheBomb81** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:14 pm

How well do the Clippers do from 2012-2014 with a prime GP & Reign Man?

KyletheDingbat · Post #2 » by **KyletheDingbat** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:02 pm

10 fewer wins a year.

JordansBulls · Post #3 » by **JordansBulls** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:14 pm

TheBomb81 wrote:How well do the Clippers do from 2012-2014 with a prime GP & Reign Man?

Probably around 65-68 wins.

Durant_Knows · Post #4 » by **Durant_Knows** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:13 am

JordansBulls wrote:
TheBomb81 wrote:How well do the Clippers do from 2012-2014 with a prime GP & Reign Man?

Probably around 65-68 wins.

You're telling me that downgrading the point guard slot and replacing two athletic forwards is gonna turn the clippers into a 68-14 team?

You better have some good "kemp" with you after sayin that.

Woodsanity · Post #5 » by **Woodsanity** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:37 am

55 wins and 2nd round exit at best.

BlackIce · Post #6 » by **BlackIce** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:25 am

Cp3 and Blake are the only 2 playmakers on that team. Payton isn't the facilitator that Paul is and Kemp in his prime (93' - 97') might not even be as good as Blake has been this season. It's not really the talent drop off as much as it is the lack of ball handling and playmaking that LAC has on the wings.

Jaivl · Post #7 » by **Jaivl** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:51 pm

Payton is worse than CP3, Griffin and Kemp are similar. I don't see the improvement here.

JordansBulls · Post #8 » by **JordansBulls** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:52 pm

Durant_Knows wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:
TheBomb81 wrote:How well do the Clippers do from 2012-2014 with a prime GP & Reign Man?

Probably around 65-68 wins.

You're telling me that downgrading the point guard slot and replacing two athletic forwards is gonna turn the clippers into a 68-14 team?

You better have some good "kemp" with you after sayin that.

You would be upgrading the PG slot with Payton and upgrading the PF with Kemp.

colts18 · Post #9 » by **colts18** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:19 am

JordansBulls wrote:Probably around 65-68 wins.

They couldn't win 65-68 wins in a watered down 1996 year, yet you think they can do that in 2014?

Post #10 » by **Quotatious** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:38 am

I think replacing current CP3 and Griffin with 1996 Payton and Kemp (I've chosen that year because that's the best they've been together at the same time, and it was likely the peak for those Sonic teams), would maybe add about two or three wins to the Clippers, because Payton played 81 games, and CP3 just 62, but that's the only reason. Paul is easily the better player, so there's no chance, none at all, that the Clippers wouldn't be better with CP3 playing 81 games, like Payton did.

No significant improvement at all, and they'd likely be worse in the playoffs. Current Griffin is better than Kemp ever was, same with CP3 and Payton (the gap is even bigger between Paul and Payton).

JordansBulls · Post #11 » by **JordansBulls** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:30 am

colts18 wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Probably around 65-68 wins.

They couldn't win 65-68 wins in a watered down 1996 year, yet you think they can do that in 2014?

1996 was much better than 2014. A team like Orlando in 1996 would win 70 in 2014.

Post #12 » by **Quotatious** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:37 am

JordansBulls wrote:1996 was much better than 2014. A team like Orlando in 1996 would win 70 in 2014.

No, definitely not with Shaq playing just 54 games that year. There's no way you can back up that claim, and there's nothing about that team that suggests it might be the case. They were more of a "one of the best teams in the league" team, rather than an all-time great team. With Shaq playing 70-80 games, I could maybe see it, but I don't think people realize that only one team, the '96 Bulls, ever cracked 70 wins in a season. That's an incredibly difficult task. 65 wins seems realistic, if Shaq was more healthy, but 70? Doubtful.

lukekarts · Post #13 » by **lukekarts** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:36 am

I think they'd be marginally better. Hard to translate that into wins but maybe 2-5. Closer to being a title favourite but still not clear cut.

I don't agree with posters here saying Paul is much better than Payton. Paul is obviously the better playmaker, but they're quite comparable as scorers and Payton is clearly a more valuable defensive piece. For their losses offensively, they'd gain some defensively.

The same applies to Kemp and Griffin. Kemp was a pretty reliable offensive player - more consistent than Griffin IMO, and clearly a better defender. Blake's passing bridges that gap, obviously.

I think you'd see LAC grind out more games defensively. They'd not go for the 130+ point games anywhere near as often and they'd run at a much slower pace, but they'd also be more consistent/less streaky.

Outright I don't prefer Kemp/Payton as a duo, but I think their defensive ability would be a greater asset to this team, which is relatively weak defensively.

Post #14 » by **tsherkin** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:45 am

That was a really solid offensive year for Payton, but he wasn't as good on O as Paul, not really even close. He was good on O, and fantastic on D, that was his impact. He would not be the same level of defender in this era, not because guys are magically better, but because his brand of physical, clutching defense is now explicitly illegal.

Kemp/Griffin... upgrade on D, downgrade on O... not seeing major positive value to the swap there and it's a definitive downgrade at the point.