tsherkin wrote:ushvinder88 wrote:No I dont dislike older players.
And yet, the dismissive way in which you treat their accomplishments very clearly indicates otherwise.Dr. J(you'll overrate 76 aba of course)
And now we come to the part where you're obviously unfamiliar with my posting history or stances on such things, heh. I don't particularly care for the ABA, but to discard it would be foolish when you consider that the per-minute production of the star-level players who crossed over didn't actually take a dive to any degree. Erving and Gervin were both obviously just as effective in the NBA as they were in the ABA, so dismissing the ABA has limited value. Do I count his MVPs the same way? No, not really, because he wasn't competing with anyone who played at an MVP level, but still. That said, he has an NBA MVP and more Finals appearances as the primary player than Wade, plus he does have a ring from 83. Even if you give only partial credit to his ABA accomplishments, he still ends up looking like a compelling choice above Wade... even before you factor in impact on the game, should you choose to consider that angle.In which category is wade last? Does he have the lowest peak? He is the worst playoff performer? He is the worst scorer of the bunch? He isthe worst defender? You tell me which of these 4 crucial categories for nba players is dwayne wade dead last?
But looking at it that way isn't effective, yes? Obviously, the exact position where you rank Wade is dependent upon how you choose to evaluate, but Wade's basic claims don't really elevate him above those players and he's missing some pieces that those other guys have.
Meantime, he doesn't have to be dead last in any category not to rank ahead of them. Compared to any individual, he'd have to be ahead of them in more categories than in which he is behind.
Meantime, Robinson isn't even a salient point because he's not in the top 15 on the list from which I was working.
Wade is pretty clearly not a top 10 guy... but we need establish only five other players who rank above him for this argument to be dead, and there are players on that list outside of the top 15 who are better than Wade. Lebron, for instance, so as soon as you remove one player from that list, another takes his place. Then you've got a number of comparable players.
Wade's problem is that in many cases, his prime is shorter and filled with less individual accolades than the guys against whom he will be compared. There isn't a compelling reason to select him over Dirk, for example, and Robinson's entire pre-injury career looks a lot like 07-10 for Wade. He doesn't have the ring as The Man, but never played with anyone as good as 06 Shaq and he does have the scoring title, the MVP, rebounding and block titles, the quadruple-double, the 70-point game, etc. He's got achievements and accolades to stand up to Wade... and then a pair of titles besides (and he was no small part of the 99 ring).
And on and on. There are few ways to legitimately argue that Wade belongs in the top 15. There are guys in his own era who were obviously greater, and some whom are debatably greater.
Kevin Durant seems a very likely candidate to depose Wade even further, and there are others up and coming who may yet do so as well. He isn't there now and there's nothing to suggest he will rise in estimation as time goes by. The opposite might happen, in fact, though there's no guarantee there either.
So let me get this right, you want to bring up context when I mentioned Barkley has no rings, then you want to brag about dr.j going to the finals more times as the man than wade, yeah context doesnt apply here at all right? I mean the sixers from 77-83 were only slightly better than the 07-10 heat. Not to mention that erving's ring in 83 was as a complete sidekick and his numbers were rather mediocre, but yeah its on equal fotting as wade's 06 and 2012 runs. Not to mention the nba was a very diluted league from 77-82ish, but according to you every era is on equal footing.
Why dont you go ahead and do what I asked you to and actually rank all 8 of those guys based on the categories that I just mentioned. Yeah because you only want to nitpick wade and not expose the flaws of the other 8. Wade has no argument for top 10, but he can clearly be argued as the 15th-17th all time best player, and if he played on better teams from 07-10, he would have had more playoff success, which would have boosted him.
Where were you when realgm did thier all time peaks project? They had wade well above barkley and moses and now you want to act like he didn't outpeak them? Please. Dwayne Wade's 06 and 09 runs are among the best ever for wing players.
What pieces is he missing? That he didnt win mvps when he peaked at the same tim aslebron freakin james. Im sure these other guys would have dethroned lebron from being mvp in 2009 and 2010. Im sure these other guys would have won more games for the heat between 05-12, right tshkerin, make context excuses for your guys, but context wont apply to d-wade. Accolades dont mean **** in this comparison because those guys dont win **** all if they peak at the same time as 09 and 10 lebron.
I also noticed that you defended moses malone's 45% shooting from the field by mentioning his offensive rating and ts%, but left out the fact that in 84 his team was eliminated by the nets and that he anchored some of the worst defenses ever in houston. You also enjoyed leaving out the fact that teams consistently gave up on moses and he kept getting bounced around. Yeah hes a far more impactful player than wade. Barkley doesnt get knocked by you for the fact that hes basically a negative on defense and doesnt exactly have the edge in peak value, this board ranked wade well above barkley in peak.
