The Lebron Thread (2013-14 Pt. 4)

[mopper8]

honestly the Cavs have all the power anyways. they can wait as long as they want before offering wiggins for love, which is what they should do anyways. see what the team looks like as is and then go for trades, the Wolves wont find a better deal anywhere else and wiggins value wont drop that far even if he doesnt look that good.

no need for the Cavs to make moves or panic right now, they have the best player in the game and a TON of assets, theres no team better setup right now than them at the moment. they just need to wait, see how things unfold and make moves if need be. of course they are the Cavs so there is a high probability they **** this up.

im of the opinion that the Love trade should be a no brainer win-win for both sides, but like i said, Cavs hold all the cards.

eh, disagree. this is only true if there aren't other teams capable of making credible offers for Love who are interested in him. As it happens, though, there are at least 2 other teams--the Warriors & the Celtics, so there is a real chance that the Cavs could see Love's price get bid up by one/both of those teams. I think the Cavs' position is overstated by a lot of posters here on realgm, it's pretty clear their brand new (returning) star player (with an opt-out at the end of the season) wants Love on the team, which puts a lot of pressure on the front office to get it done. If Boston or Golden State is able to acquire Love & extend him, taking him off the market, with an offer that Cleveland in theory could've beaten...that'd likely be a problem.

[bondom34]

honestly the Cavs have all the power anyways. they can wait as long as they want before offering wiggins for love, which is what they should do anyways. see what the team looks like as is and then go for trades, the Wolves wont find a better deal anywhere else and wiggins value wont drop that far even if he doesnt look that good.

no need for the Cavs to make moves or panic right now, they have the best player in the game and a TON of assets, theres no team better setup right now than them at the moment. they just need to wait, see how things unfold and make moves if need be. of course they are the Cavs so there is a high probability they **** this up.

im of the opinion that the Love trade should be a no brainer win-win for both sides, but like i said, Cavs hold all the cards.

At this point, w/ reports of Klay wanting a max, I agree. There's no way Minny wants both Klay and Rubio looking for a max next offseason when I wouldn't want to give either guy one. I think they're out of the running.

[Doormatt]

honestly the Cavs have all the power anyways. they can wait as long as they want before offering wiggins for love, which is what they should do anyways. see what the team looks like as is and then go for trades, the Wolves wont find a better deal anywhere else and wiggins value wont drop that far even if he doesnt look that good.

no need for the Cavs to make moves or panic right now, they have the best player in the game and a TON of assets, theres no team better setup right now than them at the moment. they just need to wait, see how things unfold and make moves if need be. of course they are the Cavs so there is a high probability they **** this up.

im of the opinion that the Love trade should be a no brainer win-win for both sides, but like i said, Cavs hold all the cards.

eh, disagree. this is only true if there aren't other teams capable of making credible offers for Love who are interested in him. As it happens, though, there are at least 2 other teams--the Warriors & the Celtics, so there is a real chance that the Cavs could see Love's price get bid up by one/both of those teams. I think the Cavs' position is overstated by a lot of posters here on realgm, it's pretty clear their brand new (returning) star player (with an opt-out at the end of the season) wants Love on the team, which puts a lot of pressure on the front office to get it done. If Boston or Golden State is able to acquire Love & extend him, taking him off the market, with an offer that Cleveland in theory could've beaten...that'd likely be a problem.

nah theres no reason for Minny to take either of those deals if Wiggins is truly on the table. again nobody is in a rush to trade for love here. every team that can trade for him (outside of the cavs) can actually just acquire him thru free agency next season (assuming the warriors can find a taker for an expiring lee, which i dont think would be difficult).

and its not like lebron is gonna opt out, he only took this contract cuz it allows him to make the most money. you think hes gonna leave again? lol

[Doctor MJ]

I have a lot more faith in Blatt to utilize Love as a second option, I also think Love can play a larry bird like role on the cavs because he moves well off ball and can shoot, post up and occasionally drive. He also is a gifted passer, I think a lot better than bosh

You and I are thinking similarly.

With my recent posts on Bird, the thing that occurred to me is that Love might be the closest thing to Bird we have right now. To be clear: There are big difference, and I don't consider Love's brain to be up there with Bird's, but Love has a tendency to put himself in the right place and then to be able to make quick shooting & passing decisions. If there's a smart coach and Love comes in with the right attitude - which I think he will - it could be amazing to watch.

[mopper8]

honestly the Cavs have all the power anyways. they can wait as long as they want before offering wiggins for love, which is what they should do anyways. see what the team looks like as is and then go for trades, the Wolves wont find a better deal anywhere else and wiggins value wont drop that far even if he doesnt look that good.

no need for the Cavs to make moves or panic right now, they have the best player in the game and a TON of assets, theres no team better setup right now than them at the moment. they just need to wait, see how things unfold and make moves if need be. of course they are the Cavs so there is a high probability they **** this up.

im of the opinion that the Love trade should be a no brainer win-win for both sides, but like i said, Cavs hold all the cards.

eh, disagree. this is only true if there aren't other teams capable of making credible offers for Love who are interested in him. As it happens, though, there are at least 2 other teams--the Warriors & the Celtics, so there is a real chance that the Cavs could see Love's price get bid up by one/both of those teams. I think the Cavs' position is overstated by a lot of posters here on realgm, it's pretty clear their brand new (returning) star player (with an opt-out at the end of the season) wants Love on the team, which puts a lot of pressure on the front office to get it done. If Boston or Golden State is able to acquire Love & extend him, taking him off the market, with an offer that Cleveland in theory could've beaten...that'd likely be a problem.

nah theres no reason for Minny to take either of those deals if Wiggins is truly on the table. again nobody is in a rush to trade for love here. every team that can trade for him (outside of the cavs) can actually just acquire him thru free agency next season (assuming the warriors can find a taker for an expiring lee, which i dont think would be difficult).

and its not like lebron is gonna opt out, he only took this contract cuz it allows him to make the most money. you think hes gonna leave again? lol

Do I think Lebron will leave? No. But then, I didn't think he'd leave Cleveland in 2010 and I didn't think he'd leave MIami this year so I'm not gonna put a lot of stock in what I think Lebron will or won't do. There are reports, however, that the 1-year opt-out is not about money, but rather about leverage to make the organization do what he wants, which wouldn't shock me in the least.

I also disagree that nobody is in a hurry to acquire Love.

1 - If you trade for him now with an agreement to sign an extension (pretty standard), you lock him up. If you wait and someone else trades for him now with an agreement to sign an extension, then you're S.o.L.

2 - For the Cavs in specific, put aside whatever BS Lebron said in his letter about this being a process & them not being ready to compete. He's recruited Love, Allen, Miller, James Jones, and Chris Andersen to the Cavs in the fast 2 weeks. Is that a guy who is gearing up for a long rebuild and getting ready to mentor 19-year-old rookies, or is that a guy who wants to win next year? The answer is obvious. If Lebron isn't willing to shrug off next season as a "growth" year for their young players, I doubt the Cavs organization is.

In the end, the party that "holds all the cards" in a negotiation is the party most willing to walk away. It might be true that Minnesota is more eager to trade Love than Cleveland is to acquire him, but that doesn't get you where you need to be. Minnesota needs to be more eager to trade Love to Cleveland than the Cleveland is to acquire him. If they're not, if they're just as happy, or more happy, to trade him elsewhere, then they are going to be the party more willing to walk away from the negotiation without completing a deal.

You have to assume that Cleveland is willing to just eat a year of Lebron's prime without realistic shot at contending, and assume that Minnesota really wants to trade with Cleveland, in order to get where you want to be. I don't think either of those are safe assumptions. I Wiggins wasn't even the consensus #1 pick until Embiid got hurt, and he wasn't even the consensus #2 pick even then. None of the other young pieces Cleveland has to offer is really much of an asset, these are player who were pretty average and have serious flaws or limitations. And future draft consideration from Cleveland is going to be a late 20s pick, which is worth, what, ~$3-$5 million straight up on draft night?

I think there's actually very little reason to believe Cleveland is actually willing to wait till free agency next year to improve the team, and there is good reason to believe that Minnesota wouldn't be bowled over by an offer of Wiggins & Bennet (and certainly unimpressed by any offer that doesn't include Wiggins at all).

[Colbinii]

You and I are thinking similarly.

With my recent posts on Bird, the thing that occurred to me is that Love might be the closest thing to Bird we have right now. To be clear: There are big difference, and I don't consider Love's brain to be up there with Bird's, but Love has a tendency to put himself in the right place and then to be able to make quick shooting & passing decisions. If there's a smart coach and Love comes in with the right attitude - which I think he will - it could be amazing to watch.

Yes, finally someone else has noticed this.

I apologize to taking this thread slightly off-topic, but I believe it belongs here, and quite honestly, I don't care

Since watching nearly all of Love's games since his rookie season, I have made one major observation, which is one of the biggest factors in why I hold him in such a high regard.

It all starts during his rookie year, he played 60% of his minutes at Center! Now, this was likely because he was still out of shape and had slow foot speed. During his second season, his Assists went from 1.0 to 2.3 (up 130%) while his turnovers only went up from 1.5 to 2.0. One thing I would like to note is his lower PER in his career is 18.3 during his rookie season, playing Center! I don't think PER is the end all be all, but it does say something.

His ability to see the floor started being utilized as he started playing away from the rim more often with 95% of his minutes at the PF. This leads into another thing about Kevin Love, his shots at the rim have gone down every single season he has been in the NBA! He is playing further and further away from the Rim to utilize his insanely high BBiq and playmaking abilities. Here is a list from his rookie year to last season of shots 0-3 feet from the rim. 52.8%, 42.7%, 35.2%, 33.5%, 32.2%, 25.2%, while his FG% has gone up every season (except 2, one being injured)) from there 55.1%, 56.5%, 61.5%, 60.0%, 49.0%, 66.9%

Kevin Love has transitioned from a low post-forward to an almost point-forward (can't bring the ball up the court but he can initiate an offense better than nearly all other non guards.) with his 21.4 AST% to just a 10.3 TOV%, over a 2-1 ratio. For people that don't enjoy advanced statistics, 4.4 Assists to 2.5 Turnovers. I looked at players last year with a USG > 25%, AST > 20%, TOV < 13%, but feel free to use whatever numbers you like, the point remains the same. Kevin Love was one of only 6 players on this list, including Tony Parker, Kyrie Irving, Damian Lillard, Kemba Walker, and Kevin Durant. Stretch it out to a larger pool and the only other Bigs are Blake Griffin and Pau Gasol. The point remains, Kevin Love is the best passing Big Man in the NBA.

There are a lot of fans on this board and other boards that say "Kevin Love can't coexist with a non-defensive Big Man." Well, let's debunk that myth, shall we. Kevin Love and Nikola Pekovic, 2 man combinations for 2014, +10.5 net +/-, with every other category on the board going up besides blocks. Kevin Love is a +10.5 when playing with another dominant offensive post-player, like LeBron James is.

Now, back to the original point of this entire post, and back to what that one major observation of Kevin Love is, and it is this. Kevin Love look's like he doesn't try out there. Like few other NBA players, Kevin Love seemingly can do whatever a team needs offensively(sounds a lot like LeBron!) whether it be score in the post, mid range jump shot (40% this season) 3 point shot (37.6% on 6.6 per game), rebounding, playmaking, getting to the free throw line (8.2 per game). All in all, his game has improved every year he has entered the league and I feel confident in saying he is one of the 5 best offensive players in the NBA.

[Colbinii]

Was LeBron's game 7 in 2013 the best close out game ever in the NBA Finals?

[PCProductions]

Was LeBron's game 7 in 2013 the best close out game ever in the NBA Finals?

People will probably say Jordan's Game 6 in '98 since it had that iconic shot and he scored more, though I wouldn't necessarily agree myself.

[colts18]

Was LeBron's game 7 in 2013 the best close out game ever in the NBA Finals?

No.

2000 Shaq:
41-12, 59 FG%, 4 blks

[ronnymac2]

^^^Also, Bill Russell with 30 points and 40 rebounds. Jerry West 40-point triple-double in 1969. Magic's Game 6 in 1980. But yeah, LeBron's is up there.

[Senior]

Was LeBron's game 7 in 2013 the best close out game ever in the NBA Finals?

Lebron had 37/12/4.

In the conversation:

00 Shaq 41/12/4 blocks
03 Duncan 21/20/10/8 blocks
88 Worthy 36/16/10
98 Jordan 45 in the clincher (stats not as good as Lebron's but he also had much less help, especially with Pip hurt)
97 Jordan 39/11/4
95 Hakeem 35/15/6
93 Jordan 33/8/7, all of CHI's points in the 4th apart from Paxson 3
86 Bird 29/11/12
80 Magic 42/15/7
77 Walton 20/23/7/8 blocks
66 Russell 25/32
62 Russell 30/40
58 Pettit 50 in a 1 point victory, unknown rebounds but bball reference says he averaged 17 in the series.
57 Russell 19/32, Heinsohn had 37/23

edit: ronnymac mentioned 69 West's 42/13/12 but he lost so I didn't know if that counted

[Colbinii]

Was LeBron's game 7 in 2013 the best close out game ever in the NBA Finals?

People will probably say Jordan's Game 6 in '98 since it had that iconic shot and he scored more, though I wouldn't necessarily agree myself.

I don't see how you could possible make a case for that over LeBron's game though.

MJ: 110 oRTG, 111dRTG 55% USG!, 6.2 AST%, 2.3 TOV%, 54 TS%, 15-35 shooting, 1 rebound, 1 assist, 45 points.
LeBron: 144 oRTG, 95 dRTG, 29% USG, 18.4 AST%, 7.0 TOV%, 69 TS%, 12-23 shooting, 12 rebounds, 4 assists, 37 points
Shaq: 119 oRTG, 120 dRTG, 34.8 USG%, 4.3 AST%, 0 TOV%, 59.4 eFG%, 19-32 shooting, 12 rebounds, 1 assist, 41 points

I really think LeBron looks like he had the most impact. MJ's 55% Usage is just ridiculous though.

[PCProductions]

Completely forgot about Magic's Game 6 1980. That one is easily it.

[Colbinii]

77 Walton 20/23/7/8 blocks

It is a shame he never stayed healthy. He alone would have changed the landscape in the NBA.

[colts18]

This time its an ESPN article on Ray Allen. I didn't even click one on LeBron, but still got a classic rant from Exodus/Moonchese/etc. He has a different name once again

Yisroel Chase · Trying to improve everyday in the way for hapiness at Here, there and everywere!
Credit to AJ WALKIN- Please take a moment to admire the great LeBron for the special talent he is. It never gets old looking at the King's history. So many accomplishments Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan will never achieve:

1.Only player in nba history to quit because of air conditioner
2.Quit on his team the year after he promises a championship
3.Dunked on by a highschool kid and then confiscate tape
4.Bail on the dunk contest 9 times
5.Only able to win a ring with 2 superstars
6.Play on same team as his moms boyfriend
7.Average 1.8 pts in the 4th quarter of NBA finals.
8.Lose not 1, not 2, but 3 times in the Finals.
9.Host a national televised TV show to leave his team
10.Go 2 for 18 in an NBA playoff game.
11.Get stuffed by a player under 6 feet (Nate Robinson)
12.Flop every single game in the playoffs
13.Choke 4 out of 5 finals games by dropping FG% by 18
14.0 Rings if not for refs calling early fouls on Durant and Westbrook it threw them out of rhythm, made them play soft and sit for big parts of the game which changed the flow and momentum of the finals.
15. Bronze 2004,2006

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11256 ... -cavaliers

[PaulieWal]

This time its an ESPN article on Ray Allen. I didn't even click one on LeBron, but still got a classic rant from Exodus/Moonchese/etc. He has a different name once again

At what point does trolling become pathetic? I mean you must have some serious free time to go around on different forums and websites to keep on pasting the same thing and making anti-player you dislike posts. I could never imagine doing that, then again I am not online to troll. Also, it should be obvious to anyone who remembers that some of the newer trolls here are PBPs given how similar their way of posting is to trainwreckog and mojay etc.

[Reservoirdawgs]

^^^Also, Bill Russell with 30 points and 40 rebounds.

I realize the pace was much faster back then, but dang...FORTY rebounds???

[RSCD3_]

^^^Also, Bill Russell with 30 points and 40 rebounds.

I realize the pace was much faster back then, but dang...FORTY rebounds???

I'm more curious about how he got 30 pts and what his field goal percentage was


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[Bled]

So glad he went back to 23.

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[Doctor MJ]

^^^Also, Bill Russell with 30 points and 40 rebounds.

I realize the pace was much faster back then, but dang...FORTY rebounds???

I'm more curious about how he got 30 pts and what his field goal percentage was


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I don't have the numbers for the game, but for the series his FG% was 54.3.