Better teammate: young Cavs LeBron or older Heat LeBron?

Jim Naismith · Post #1 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:32 pm

Who was the better teammate?

or

BroncosLite58 · Post #2 » by **BroncosLite58** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:56 pm

I can't think of a single player that got worse as a teammate as they aged. I guess there is Kobe who was only a good teammate for a stretch but then returned back to his poor habits.

The answer is Heat Lebron for me. He is more humble although still amazingly arrogant but he accepts more responsibility for what he does.

PCProductions · Post #3 » by **PCProductions** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:03 pm

Easily Heat Lebron. Cavs Lebron wasn't a bad teammate, in fact he was probably a really good teammate, but he wasn't a leader in the sense that he is now. I think playing in Miami had a lot to do with that growth, especially overcoming the adversity that he did of humiliation and overwhelming doubt.

Jim Naismith · Post #4 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:11 pm

PCProductions wrote:Easily Heat Lebron. Cavs Lebron wasn't a bad teammate, in fact he was probably a really good teammate, but he wasn't a leader in the sense that he is now. I think playing in Miami had a lot to do with that growth, especially overcoming the adversity that he did of humiliation and overwhelming doubt.

I actually think that in a way, Cavs LeBron maximized the abilities of his teammates more so than Heat LeBron.

For example, LeBron made Mo Williams look better in Cleveland, but he made Chris Bosh look worse in Miami.

Dr Pepper · Post #5 » by **Dr Pepper** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:15 pm

Can't go wrong either way but I'll side with Young Bron - more minutes, more free throws per minute (meaning he can bail out his team and force the action), even more physically dominant

Heat Bron is a more refined scorer and a better outside shooter that can take what the defense gives him instead of force the action.

PCProductions · Post #6 » by **PCProductions** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:18 pm

Jim Naismith wrote:
PCProductions wrote:Easily Heat Lebron. Cavs Lebron wasn't a bad teammate, in fact he was probably a really good teammate, but he wasn't a leader in the sense that he is now. I think playing in Miami had a lot to do with that growth, especially overcoming the adversity that he did of humiliation and overwhelming doubt.

I actually think that in a way, Cavs LeBron maximized the abilities of his teammates more so than Heat LeBron.

For example, LeBron made Mo Williams look better in Cleveland, but he made Chris Bosh look worse in Miami.

Mo Williams was pretty much the same player he was the year before in Milwaukee. The All Star nod was silly and the result of injuries amongst the East rather than him playing at an all star level.

Bosh was the 3rd option instead of being the 1st option, so of course he was going to see a dip in his volume. However, he was the most efficient he had ever been in his career. Remember that there's only one ball, and having it in Lebron's hands is obviously the better choice most of the time.

Bosh's role changed a lot and he became a different player, not worse nor better. Defensively, he was what kept the Heat's system working. Offensively, he molded his talents to fit Lebron's, which was to space the floor for Lebron drives and knock down open shots that he received. It took them to 4 straight finals with two of them being titles, and that's because they developed a system that maximized the talent they had on their team, including Chris Bosh.

BroncosLite58 · Post #7 » by **BroncosLite58** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:58 pm

Jim Naismith wrote:
PCProductions wrote:Easily Heat Lebron. Cavs Lebron wasn't a bad teammate, in fact he was probably a really good teammate, but he wasn't a leader in the sense that he is now. I think playing in Miami had a lot to do with that growth, especially overcoming the adversity that he did of humiliation and overwhelming doubt.

I actually think that in a way, Cavs LeBron maximized the abilities of his teammates more so than Heat LeBron.

For example, LeBron made Mo Williams look better in Cleveland, but he made Chris Bosh look worse in Miami.

Really? That is on Lebron? Tell me exactly what the coaches do, if players are responsible for maximizing a player's talent.

Mo Williams was just asked to be the 2nd option in Cleveland. He wasn't any better then than he has been for the past 3 years on different teams. Bosh on the other hand was a 1st option in Toronto and was asked to be a 3rd option/spot-up shooter in Miami.

JordansBulls · Post #8 » by **JordansBulls** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:13 am

Cavs Lebron. Heat Lebron hindered the abilities of of other players such as Wade and Bosh by ball dominating.

Colbinii · Post #9 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:54 am

JordansBulls wrote:Cavs Lebron. Heat Lebron hindered the abilities of of other players such as Wade and Bosh by ball dominating.

That's awful logic JB as Cav's LeBron never had anyone to hinder abilities of.

Also, LeBron had his 4 highest usage rates with the Cavs, higher than any Miami Season. So, even though LeBron played with Bosh/Wade, his usage rate still went down.

Do you have any proof he hindered Wade?
Was LeBron the reason Wade was hurt?
Was LeBron the reason Wade went from 39 MPG to 34 MPG?
Was LeBron the reason Wade missed 17 games in 2012, 13 games in 2013, and 28 games in 2014?

Wade's Career usage rate is 31.9%, when Wade was "Relatively healthy" in his first 2 seasons in Miami, he put up 31.5% Usage, a non measurable difference from his career average.

Wade's career oRTG is 111, he posted 112 over the past 4 years.

And for Bosh, did Bosh ever lead a team past the 1st round as a #1 option? Did you want Bosh getting LeBron's touches? That would be foolish, unless you wanted a 1st round exit. Bosh isn't a #1 option on a title contender, so him getting #1 option touches isn't a good idea for a team trying to win a title.

JordansBulls · Post #10 » by **JordansBulls** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:47 am

Colbinii wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:
Do you have any proof he hindered Wade?
Was LeBron the reason Wade was hurt?
Was LeBron the reason Wade went from 39 MPG to 34 MPG?
Was LeBron the reason Wade missed 17 games in 2012, 13 games in 2013, and 28 games in 2014?

.

Do you have any proof he hindered Wade? Yes his numbers went down
Was LeBron the reason Wade was hurt? Possibly
Was LeBron the reason Wade went from 39 MPG to 34 MPG? Yes in a way
Was LeBron the reason Wade missed 17 games in 2012, 13 games in 2013, and 28 games in 2014? Yes

I've had 6 beers tonight, so not sure if everything I am saying is accurate, but I think it is.

Colbinii · Post #11 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:00 am

JordansBulls wrote:Do you have any proof he hindered Wade? Yes his numbers went down
Was LeBron the reason Wade was hurt? Possibly
Was LeBron the reason Wade went from 39 MPG to 34 MPG? Yes in a way
Was LeBron the reason Wade missed 17 games in 2012, 13 games in 2013, and 28 games in 2014? Yes

I've had 6 beers tonight, so not sure if everything I am saying is accurate, but I think it is.

JB, you just said Wade got hurt because of LeBron...I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are drinking and don't actually believe this.

Enjoy your beers mate, and have a safe night :party:

Joseph17 · Post #12 » by **Joseph17** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:30 am

Same **** different uniform.

Post #13 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:49 am

You can't say he "hindered" Wade and LeBron, because the Heat offense was far better than anything Wade or Bosh could accomplish by putting up prettier numbers.

Post #14 » by **PaulieWal** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:51 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:You can't say he "hindered" Wade and LeBron, because the Heat offense was far better than anything Wade or Bosh could accomplish by putting up prettier numbers.

It's fair though if you also blame LeBron for Wade's missed games and while we are at it is also LeBron's fault that Bosh got hurt in 2012 and had to miss 9 playoff games.

Post #15 » by **Young_Star11** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:48 am

Heat LeBron. Matured as a player and person so much.

JVL · Post #16 » by **JVL** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:50 pm

JordansBulls wrote:Was LeBron the reason Wade was hurt? Possibly

This is the most asinine tripe I've ever read on these boards.

Joao Saraiva · Post #17 » by **Joao Saraiva** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:32 pm

Jim Naismith wrote:
PCProductions wrote:Easily Heat Lebron. Cavs Lebron wasn't a bad teammate, in fact he was probably a really good teammate, but he wasn't a leader in the sense that he is now. I think playing in Miami had a lot to do with that growth, especially overcoming the adversity that he did of humiliation and overwhelming doubt.

I actually think that in a way, Cavs LeBron maximized the abilities of his teammates more so than Heat LeBron.

For example, LeBron made Mo Williams look better in Cleveland, but he made Chris Bosh look worse in Miami.

I'm glad LeBron has 4 rings then. 2 as coach.

Bosh played outside of the 3 point line because Spoelstra wanted him to do so.

The question is not if Bosh got better or not: was it the right move for the team to succeed?

Jim Naismith · Post #18 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:54 pm

Joao Saraiva wrote:Bosh played outside of the 3 point line because Spoelstra wanted him to do so.

The question is not if Bosh got better or not: was it the right move for the team to succeed?

And what I'm suggesting is that a LeBron-led team can only succeed by asking its other stars to significantly alter their games.

In other words, LeBron meshes well with Bosh, but only when Bosh contorts his game to fit LeBron's style.

I think the change in Bosh's game is more drastic than anything Pau Gasol had to do to mesh with Kobe during 2008-10.

DWadeno3 · Post #19 » by **DWadeno3** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:44 pm

PCProductions wrote:Easily Heat Lebron. Cavs Lebron wasn't a bad teammate, in fact he was probably a really good teammate, but he wasn't a leader in the sense that he is now. I think playing in Miami had a lot to do with that growth, especially overcoming the adversity that he did of humiliation and overwhelming doubt.

The people who have been there (Riley, Wade, UD) most likely helped the case a lot as well.

And for the guy who said he maximized the talents of the players in Cleveland more: Yes, because the entire team was constructed to fit around LeBron, not to be a versatile championship team. If you have a large amount of guys who are good at shooting from the outside and then some guys who are good at screening and rolling to the basket, then they'll look better next to a guy like LeBron who'll spam the defense with pick and rolls or constantly draw help on his penetrations. Those teams are also easily shut down when they're game planned for because you don't have many players who can adapt their game, thus not giving you much tactical versatility.

Joao Saraiva · Post #20 » by **Joao Saraiva** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:51 pm

Jim Naismith wrote:
Joao Saraiva wrote:Bosh played outside of the 3 point line because Spoelstra wanted him to do so.

The question is not if Bosh got better or not: was it the right move for the team to succeed?

And what I'm suggesting is that a LeBron-led team can only succeed by asking its other stars to significantly alter their games.

In other words, LeBron meshes well with Bosh, but only when Bosh contorts his game to fit LeBron's style.

I think the change in Bosh's game is more drastic than anything Pau Gasol had to do to mesh with Kobe during 2008-10.

It is a matter of spacing. If LeBron had a SG that shot from 3 Bosh could play closer to the basket. But that's not the case. So you can't blame it only on LeBron.

Who was a better teammate?