PC Board OT thread

[bondom34]

And please, feel free to come by the trade board any time fellas.

[ceiling raiser]

Pollack had opponent stats going back at least one year before B-R (unfortunately, no league-wide turnover numbers, just a note that the Sixers had 1726, and their opponents had 1740):

Spoiler:

I have the 66-67 guide (covering the 65-66 season), and there's no such information. Hoping that the guides in between have the same table. The 67, 68, 69 Celtics were past the dynasty's absolute peak, but if there are any crazy trends in the opponent stats (holding teams to a very low FG%, or having a huge advantage in FGA or TRB which would indicate a massive TOV/possession advantage, or even interesting FT drawing rates) they might stand out even in Russell's last few years.

EDIT: Damn, 69-70 guide (68-69 season) just arrived, doesn't have the table. Oh well.

[RSCD3_]

The John Henson story and the people who say it's no big deal is profane.

[Dr Spaceman]

Thabo is reportedly suing the NYPD for $50MM. Dude is bold and while I don't want to romanticize too much, Its extremely exciting to see someone use their fame and media platform to work toward social change. He could've settled for probably a similar amount that he'd get at trial, but he's risking losing the suit by taking this all the way and keeping himself in the public eye. I'm really proud of the guy.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/oct/12/the-silence-over-the-thabo-sefolosha-trial-is-deafening-and-mystifying

[RSCD3_]

TT bullocks is over.

5/82. Cavs stood firm at 80 and Thompson at 94. Looks like The cavs won the battle. I don't understand why General Board fans are saying the cavs caved and praising rich Paul. 2 million over 5 years by threatening the owner and team chemistry and he gets a two million " enough of the BS " thing from Gil.

[PaulieWal]

TT bullocks is over.

5/82. Cavs stood firm at 80 and Thompson at 94. Looks like The cavs won the battle. I don't understand why General Board fans are saying the cavs caved and praising rich Paul. 2 million over 5 years by threatening the owner and team chemistry and he gets a two million " enough of the BS " thing from Gil.

Lol at this overrated bench player getting $82 mil lol.

Good for him and Paul for getting that money when he's probably worth no more than 60-70 mil over 5 years.

[RSCD3_]

TT bullocks is over.

5/82. Cavs stood firm at 80 and Thompson at 94. Looks like The cavs won the battle. I don't understand why General Board fans are saying the cavs caved and praising rich Paul. 2 million over 5 years by threatening the owner and team chemistry and he gets a two million " enough of the BS " thing from Gil.

Lol at this overrated bench player $82 mil lol.

Good for him and Paul for getting that money when he's probably worth no more than 60-70 mil over 5 years.

The 80 million was the starting price thanks to the LeBron connection, after that he dipped out and let Paul take care of it. End result Gilbert out on two million so it looked like Paul saved faced but this whole thing could have ended months ago. .

[Quotatious]

Anyone watched the recent Open Court episode when they were talking about 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s starting fives? I thought the disrespect Pippen and Nash were getting, was really pathetic and childish. Shaq crying about Nash winning "his" MVPs (especially the one in '06, which Shaq had absolutely no case for - it should've gone to LeBron, Kobe, Wade or Dirk, if it didn't go to Nash -hell, even Elton Brand was FAR more deserving than Shaq, that year - if there's one MVP Shaq has the right to cry about, it's the one Iverson got over him in '01), clearly taking offense to Pippen's twitter remarks, and not naming him the top SF of the 90s (we all know Shaq is extremely insecure about his legacy these days, but you would think a 40-some year old retired all-time great would be more mature than that...).

Isiah basically acting like Pippen was a "nobody" was seriously maddening, too (I'd take Pip over Zeke in a heartbeat).

How can you name anyone other than Pippen as the best/greatest SF of the 90s is beyond me.

It's a shame that Kerr is no longer a part of that show. I'm sure he would have some kind words to say about both Pippen and Nash (and he was clearly the most intelligent person on that show).

For those who would like to watch:

Spoiler:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIDlAj9uMck[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x60C8H4L25M[/youtube]

[ceiling raiser]

RIP Flip Saunders

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2015/10/25/detroit-pistons-flip-saunders-timberwolves/74589036/

[E-Balla]

Anyone watched the recent Open Court episode when they were talking about 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s starting fives? I thought the disrespect Pippen and Nash were getting, was really pathetic and childish. Shaq crying about Nash winning "his" MVPs (especially the one in '06, which Shaq had absolutely no case for - it should've gone to LeBron, Kobe, Wade or Dirk, if it didn't go to Nash -hell, even Elton Brand was FAR more deserving than Shaq, that year - if there's one MVP Shaq has the right to cry about, it's the one Iverson got over him in '01), clearly taking offense to Pippen's twitter remarks, and not naming him the top SF of the 90s (we all know Shaq is extremely insecure about his legacy these days, but you would think a 40-some year old retired all-time great would be more mature than that...).

Isiah basically acting like Pippen was a "nobody" was seriously maddening, too (I'd take Pip over Zeke in a heartbeat).

How can you name anyone other than Pippen as the best/greatest SF of the 90s is beyond me.

It's a shame that Kerr is no longer a part of that show. I'm sure he would have some kind words to say about both Pippen and Nash (and he was clearly the most intelligent person on that show).

For those who would like to watch:

Spoiler:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIDlAj9uMck[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x60C8H4L25M[/youtube]

Well Shaq was clearly joking and he's said plenty of times before that he deserved it in 05 and Kobe in 06. Plus if the actual players feel Nash benefited from the rule changes (which was what Grant said he's heard from a lot of other players) the next question IMO would be why don't the fans feel that way. There's an obvious disconnect between how players and fans feel about Steve Nash. I don't think it's disrespect at all just a different point of view.

And they were 100% right about Scottie. I'd take the possibility of getting prime Zeke on the Knicks over Scottie. I don't see a difference in Scottie and someone like Melo or Paul Pierce. If you didn't notice they weren't doing the whole decade it seemed more like they were doing peaks in the decade.

I'm just saying that whenever I watch old basketball movies from the late 90s Grant Hill is talked of as the next big thing (not KG, not Duncan).

[Clyde Frazier]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SLAMonline/status/659071186161168384[/tweet]

[Texas Chuck]

Isiah basically acting like Pippen was a "nobody" was seriously maddening, too (I'd take Pip over Zeke in a heartbeat).

I'd expect nothing less from the guy who led the walk-off and who is still bitter about the Dream Team.

But Pippen will always have his detractors. He has the guys who mistakenly credit Jordan for "making" him or you have the guys who don't have any respect for guys who dominate in ways other than scoring. I got into a big discussion with a guy on this board who insisted that Pip's lack of scoring prowess really hurt the Bulls during the 2 3-peats and so I actually went through every series of the Bulls' championship runs and there are only 2 that you could remotely suggest that as being the case. Which is significant considering how many series his defense was a crucial element to, and how many times he was more efficient than Mike.

Plus people love their narratives and Scottie has both the migraine game and the Kukoc final shot and some people have simply slotted him probably without realizing it based on these things.



And on Nash--its true he benefited the most from the rule changes, but a better way of looking at it would be rather to see he best took advantage of the rule changes. He didn't get some benefit the other perimeter stars didn't--he just was better at taking advantage of it which should absolutely be to his credit. I can understand how guys who played against him prior to the rule changes when he was a very good player, but hardly MVP-caliber might not realize just how good he actually was playing. Of course they probably are also ignorant of the major lifestyle changes Nash made in taking his profession far more seriously as a result of Cuban refusing to pay him of all people. Plus Shaq "stole" Nash's TV show so there is probably some bad blood related to that.

[Quotatious]

And on Nash--its true he benefited the most from the rule changes, but a better way of looking at it would be rather to see he best took advantage of the rule changes. He didn't get some benefit the other perimeter stars didn't--he just was better at taking advantage of it which should absolutely be to his credit. I can understand how guys who played against him prior to the rule changes when he was a very good player, but hardly MVP-caliber might not realize just how good he actually was playing. Of course they probably are also ignorant of the major lifestyle changes Nash made in taking his profession far more seriously as a result of Cuban refusing to pay him of all people. Plus Shaq "stole" Nash's TV show so there is probably some bad blood related to that.

Personally, I think the biggest reason why Nash became an MVP caliber player after he turned 30 (by the way - he's not the first guy who did that, John Havlicek did the same in the early 70s, when he really improved compared to the player he was during the Russell era, he improved about as much as Nash did) is the fact that D'Antoni trusted him to be "the man" on the Suns, while in Dallas, Nellie made sure that Dirk's talent was maximized, not Nash's. I think Nash in a season like '03 was pretty close to the player he was in Phoenix, he just had more freedom as a Sun. Let's not act like Nash wasn't a star in Dallas - he was already a top 3 PG, in conversation for #1 (well, I think peak-ish Kidd was better at that time, I mean the early 2000s, but Nash was probably #2). It's not like he was a "nobody" who became a superstar all of a sudden.

[Texas Chuck]

, while in Dallas, Nellie made sure that Dirk's talent was maximized, not Nash's. I think Nash in a season like '03 was pretty close to the player he was in Phoenix, he just had more freedom as a Sun. Let's not act like Nash wasn't a star in Dallas - he was already a top 3 PG, in conversation for #1 (well, I think peak-ish Kidd was better at that time, I mean the early 2000s, but Nash was probably #2). It's not like he was a "nobody" who became a superstar all of a sudden.

I see this sort of thought posted a lot(the bolded), but I've yet to see anyone really provide a solid reasoning for it. Offensively Nash had all the freedom in the world under Nellie. I know I've posted this before, but his usage in 02 and 03 match or exceed any of his Suns seasons. He had the ball a ton. Remember, post Dirk doesn't yet really exist. You do get some wing isos with Dirk, but Nash is at the center of everything the team is doing offensively. I mean look at the % of Dirk's buckets that are assisted with Nash compared to after--over 60% to under 50%. Dirk was obviously a brilliant player who proved to not need Nash to be an elite offensive player, but while Nash was playing with him he was certainly benefiting from what Nash was creating.

Because I agree in terms of play style, Nash was already doing all those things people fell in love with in Phoenix. The PNR, the probing forays through the lane and out again, the pull-up's, the crafty finishes, etc... Obviously in Phoenix, he had weapons more conducive to his skills-- primarily classic finishers in Amare/Marion that were nowhere to be found in Dallas. He obviously had shooters to work with in Dallas as well. Credit to MDA for targeting Nash and giving him the ball and letting him go, but Nellie understood that same idea. He and Donnie targeted Nash 5 years earlier themselves--and that without the benefit of seeing him be an elite PG.

No, imo the biggest reason for the improvement is conditioning. Nash was so worn out at the end of seasons that he has a number of subpar performances in the playoffs in Dallas--and opposing PG's just feasted on him in almost every series. You can argue Nash's RS performance in Dallas as being close to as effective as he was in Phoenix, but the PS is a totally new story. And its because he dropped much of his party lifestyle, and put a lot more work into his physical well-being in terms of back management and conditioning.

[Texas Chuck]

Not sure how widespread this channel is(its on myVerizon Fios package in Dallas) but:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/townbrad/status/659779777369370624[/tweet]

It's highly worth watching.

[HeartBreakKid]

I get a lot of lip for having Blake Griffin in my top 5, but I think this season more people will be willing to accept the idea. Griffin got WAY too much flack for taking jumpers considering that he's able to hit down the mid range shot rather easily.

[Texas Chuck]

I get a lot of lip for having Blake Griffin in my top 5, but I think this season more people will be willing to accept the idea. Griffin got WAY too much flack for taking jumpers considering that he's able to hit down the mid range shot rather easily.

I had him in my top 5 last year as well. And this is going to get me in trouble, but I'd say he's better than Anthony Davis atm.

[bondom34]

I get a lot of lip for having Blake Griffin in my top 5, but I think this season more people will be willing to accept the idea. Griffin got WAY too much flack for taking jumpers considering that he's able to hit down the mid range shot rather easily.

I had him in my top 5 last year as well. And this is going to get me in trouble, but I'd say he's better than Anthony Davis atm.

I'd think long and hard about it today. I put Davis 1st on my ballot a day or 2 ago, but am second guessing it as I've never entirely gotten the AD hype. (ducks)

[ceiling raiser]

RIP Grantland:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/10/30/espn-shuts-down-grantland-effective-immediately/

Hoping Lowe will continue in the same capacity for ESPN, or sign up elsewhere ASAP...

[bondom34]

I'm sure he'll pick up somewhere. All the good writers there shouldn't have a hard time, I'd imagine him and Barnwell will be back very soon. That was the only quality work ESPN put out.