Worse Finals Performance: 04 Kobe or 11 LeBron?

[Rust In Peace]

Guess I'd go with Lebron. Kobe had a really bad series but at least he tried. From what I remember of the 2011 Finals, it felt like Lebron was holding back. Kobe might have been negatively impacting his team with his efforts but at least he was trying to get something going. Lebron looked invisible at times which is pretty disappointing for someone that's supposed to be the best player in the league. Pretty much wasted one of Wade's last good years in the playoffs. Thankfully, Lebron improved in the next three Finals and lived up to his reputation as the most dominant player in the NBA.

[Jonny Blaze]

Yes they did.

Is there some sort of issue that you have with giving a team credit for something they actually accomplished?

From reading your posts you truly have no clue what sort of Coach Rick Carlisle is, or the type of strategy that is involved in game planning for specific teams and players.

The Mavs had a very specific game plan to take Lebron James out of his comfort spots and to exploit his weaknesses.

Guess What?

It Worked.

They had the defensive personell to do it. I wish I could find it, but on one of those NBA blogs a blogger goes in depth into the Mavs defensive strategy against Lebron and why it worked

If Lebron would have been "more aggressive" the Heat most likely lose that series against the Mavs in 5 games.


I don't know if you realize this but that same Mavs team had also played against LaMarcus Aldridge, Kobe Bryant, Paul Gasol, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh.

All of them had sub par series against that same Mavericks defense with the exception of Dwayne Wade.

And I will repeat...the 2011 Mavs were a better basketball team than the 2004 Pistons.

Better regular season record in a much tougher conference.
Better playoff record against much tougher competition.
Best Superstar player.
Deeper team.

Yep you're completely right Lebron has never had a bad game or even cooked a bad meal that wasn't Savannah's fault. That's what you wanted to hear?

I don't care what scheme they tried to use because this is Lebron. No scheme had ever worked on him before or since (outside of the Spurs packing the paint again in the finals and Lebron being passive) but you're completely right the Mavericks had some revolutionary scheme that no one including them has ever used since then or before then.

I take back what I said.
You and and all the other Lebron fans are absolutely correct!

Lebron James is the most unstoppable basketball player of our lifetime.

He's like Jordan, Kobe. Shaq and Wilt all rolled into one great player.

What you saw the Mavs do to Lebron in 2011 is simply because Lebron didn't want the title that year, and thus did not try that hard.

No one has ever been able to stop Lebron James. His performance in the 2011 Finals is the only time in his career he has ever (and will ever) have a poor playoff performance.

I love your post.

I absolutely love it.

On the main message board I post is a lot more Texas centric with a lot of Mav, Spurs and Rocket fans.

Prior to the 2011 Finals we had a Lebron fan on our board just like yourself.

He went on and on about how the Mavs stood no chance against the Heat because simply put.....the Heat had Lebron James and the Mavs didn't.

I remember telling that same person that the Mavs were not scared of Lebron James and the Mavs were gonna bust his ass.

I was confident because the Mavs played in a much tougher Western Conference and had faced comparable superstars such as Tim Duncan, Shaq, Kobe and Kevin Durnant

Lebron had not faced a team with the offensive weapons that the Mavs had.
He was going to have to work a hell of a lot harder on both sides of the ball than he did having to play Eastern Conference teams.
Lebron had not faced a team as deep as the 2011 Mavs. A team with three 7 footers. A team littered with elite 3 point shooters.

I did not think the Mavs would hold James to as low as 17 ppg, but the Mavs limiting him did not surprise me.

I had watched them develop a game plan that had also limited Kobe, Gasol, Aldridge, Durant and Westbrook.

[E-Balla]

Yes they did.

Is there some sort of issue that you have with giving a team credit for something they actually accomplished?

From reading your posts you truly have no clue what sort of Coach Rick Carlisle is, or the type of strategy that is involved in game planning for specific teams and players.

The Mavs had a very specific game plan to take Lebron James out of his comfort spots and to exploit his weaknesses.

Guess What?

It Worked.

They had the defensive personell to do it. I wish I could find it, but on one of those NBA blogs a blogger goes in depth into the Mavs defensive strategy against Lebron and why it worked

If Lebron would have been "more aggressive" the Heat most likely lose that series against the Mavs in 5 games.


I don't know if you realize this but that same Mavs team had also played against LaMarcus Aldridge, Kobe Bryant, Paul Gasol, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh.

All of them had sub par series against that same Mavericks defense with the exception of Dwayne Wade.

And I will repeat...the 2011 Mavs were a better basketball team than the 2004 Pistons.

Better regular season record in a much tougher conference.
Better playoff record against much tougher competition.
Best Superstar player.
Deeper team.

Yep you're completely right Lebron has never had a bad game or even cooked a bad meal that wasn't Savannah's fault. That's what you wanted to hear?

I don't care what scheme they tried to use because this is Lebron. No scheme had ever worked on him before or since (outside of the Spurs packing the paint again in the finals and Lebron being passive) but you're completely right the Mavericks had some revolutionary scheme that no one including them has ever used since then or before then.

I take back what I said.
You and and all the other Lebron fans are absolutely correct!

Lebron James is the most unstoppable basketball player of our lifetime.

He's like Jordan, Kobe. Shaq and Wilt all rolled into one great player.

What you saw the Mavs do to Lebron in 2011 is simply because Lebron didn't want the title that year, and thus did not try that hard.

No one has ever been able to stop Lebron James. His performance in the 2011 Finals is the only time in his career he has ever (and will ever) have a poor playoff performance.

I love your post.

I absolutely love it.

On the main message board I post is a lot more Texas centric with a lot of Mav, Spurs and Rocket fans.

Prior to the 2011 Finals we had a Lebron fan on our board just like yourself.

He went on and on about how the Mavs stood no chance against the Heat because simply put.....the Heat had Lebron James and the Mavs didn't.

I remember telling that same person that the Mavs were not scared of Lebron James and the Mavs were gonna bust his ass.

I was confident because the Mavs played in a much tougher Western Conference and had faced comparable superstars such as Tim Duncan, Shaq, Kobe and Kevin Durnant

Lebron had not faced a team with the offensive weapons that the Mavs had.
He was going to have to work a hell of a lot harder on both sides of the ball than he did having to play Eastern Conference teams.
Lebron had not faced a team as deep as the 2011 Mavs. A team with three 7 footers. A team littered with elite 3 point shooters.

I did not think the Mavs would hold James to as low as 17 ppg, but the Mavs limiting him did not surprise me.

I had watched them develop a game plan that had also limited Kobe, Gasol, Aldridge, Durant and Westbrook.

Actually I picked Dallas in 6 and won 60 bucks off it (I just turned 16 at the timetime so that was bank).

No one is saying Dallas didn't limit Lebron but they didn't limit him to 17 a game. If he was at 22 a game yeah maybe that's Dallas but to have a 8 point game (where he flopped for 2 of them) was clearly all Lebron.

[DEEP3CL]

Can't believe people buy that nonsense about Kobe "going for Finals MVP'. My God. So he was OK with Shaq getting it in 00, 2001, and 2002 but decided he was going for it in 2004.

It can't be that he was simply going up against the best defense ever, with every other player of the supporting cast outside Shaq shooting under 40% on WIDE OPEN shots, while having to chase rip around the court...that doesn't explain the poor series. No, they have to come up with some nonsense about chasing the finals mvp. Apparently these guys are mind-readers.

Can't believe these people think that force-feeding the ball to Shaq would have made any sort of difference. Shaq was already doing 27 PPG/60% TS. I guess him getting a few more shots a game would have changed that 13+ margin of defeat the lakers had in the 4 games they lost.

The game where Bryant shot 13 times in 45 minutes...the Lakers lost by 20 points and posted their worst offensive game of the series BY FAR (79.7 ORTG). Let's just ignore that. Let's just continue to repeat the same old tired narratives.

Good stuff man, you're the only one in here posting any kind of sense and showing great IQ for ball. It seems from reading most of these illiterate type postings that guys couldn't or didn't understand what the hell they were looking at when watching that series.

It's amazes me that guys still bitch about "Shaq not getting shots, not getting the ball"....which was foolish. Shaq averaged 26 for the series while Kobe did 22. Furthermore guys don't seem to understand the game plan executed by Larry Brown.

A little nugget for those not understanding an NBA defensive scheme they couldn't figure out by just watching, but the Lakers took 380 shots for the series, almost a quarter of them were 3's. That tells me Brown was trying to take away Shaq by any means possible while also choking off the interior. Which left guys like Kobe, Fisher, GP, Devean George and Kareem Rush shooting way more 3's than they wanted to.

And that still wasn't the total reason they lost the series, because I damn sure don't remember Shaq offering any defensive resistance in that series.

[semi-sentient]

2004 NBA Finals - G2 (Pistons @ Lakers)

Pre Game

Doc Rivers: Says that the Lakers defense needs to improve as the Pistons were getting too many open shots in G1. The focus was on Hamilton, and as a result other guys were getting shots off the attention he was receiving. Phil told him the Lakers needed to make adjustments on offense to give Kobe more room to attack so that he didn't settle for jumpers.

Michelle Tafoya: Phil said that Kobe spent a lot of energy guarding Rip in G1 and that had some effects on his offense (lots of shots coming up short). Due to that Phil planned on limiting how much time he spent on Rip so that he could be more effective on offense.

Al Michaels: Lakers need more help from role players. Shaq and Kobe did it all in G1 and no one else stepped up.


1st Quarter

Kobe was bringing the ball up the floor most of the quarter. He had 3 turnovers -- an offensive foul driving to the basket and 2 errant passes (including a lob attempt to Shaq). He had a single assist to Shaq on a short baseline jumper, but he made several good passes to open shooters as he collapsed the defense by attacking the basket. He's clearly looking to be more of a play-maker than a scorer. His only points so far are from a dunk off a give and go with Shaq and FT's after drawing a shooting foul on a pull-up shot in transition (4 pts, 1-1 fg, 2-2 ft, 1 ast, 3 tov). Shaq is getting a good amount of touches early on but he's swinging it to the open shooter or trying to hit a cutter. So far he has 3 pts (1-2 fg, 1-2 ft, 1 tov). Shaq's not getting doubled too much. Neither is Kobe for that matter. Pistons just seem to be playing everyone straight up and helping only when needed.

Malone, Payton, and George all struggled. At one point they had 2 pts on 1-8 fg. Sheed is giving Malone fits. All of his shots are off balance and heavily contested. Payton and George are completely useless out there. Walton checked in (for George) with the Lakers down 13-10 and immediately created an opportunity for Malone who drew a shooting foul (Sheed's 2nd foul). He's doing a good job of getting to the right spots (unlike George), making quick decisions with the ball, and overall improved the Lakers spacing which gave Kobe more room to work. From that point on the Lakers started clicking offensively, and Walton made a nice play towards the end of the 1st to get Rush an uncontested 3-pointer. Lakers end quarter on a nice 8-3 run.

Kobe mostly guarded Rip who scored 4 points (2-2 fg, 15 poss). Both scores were layups where his quick first step got him by Kobe on baseline drives. I think Kobe was expecting there to be a help defender as he was funneling him baseline, but he still should have done a better job of keeping Rip in front of him. Other than that his defense looked good. Rip wasn't as active though either. Not sure why that is.

The Lakers as a team seem to be playing with much more energy than G1, particularly on the defensive end.


2nd Quarter

Walton stays in the game as he's been highly effective, allowing Kobe to play more off the ball. Kobe's shots have all been in rhythm. He scored 9 points (4-7 fg, 1-1 ft) in the quarter and has been passing the ball really well. Walton and Payton are mostly setting up the offense at this point. Walton has done a nice job getting in the paint and hit Shaq for a couple of dunks as he forced the defense to react. He's having the game of his life -- 5 assists, would have been 6 if Malone didn't blow a point blank layup in transition.

On defense, Kobe is again mostly guarding Rip who scores twice (both baseline moves with no help defense). After those scores, Rip gets completely shut out and starts showing frustration (gets a tech after offensive foul/charge) as Kobe is forcing him into tough shots and turnovers. Rivers has been going on and on about the Lakers defense all quarter and says Kobe is the guy leading the effort/team on defense, and a couple of his plays really energized the team (like a blocked lob attempt where he skies to prevent what would have been an easy Prince dunk). Rip scored 4 points (2-3 fg) and was forced into 3 turnovers in the quarter.


3rd Quarter

Kobe starts the quarter in play-maker mode, getting both Shaq and George a couple of easy layups. It seems the Lakers plan is now to get Shaq more involved as they are constantly dumping it into him. The Lakers ball movement is crisp as Kobe and Malone are doing a great job of swinging the ball to get guys uncontested shots in the paint. Payton continues to struggle, throwing up wild shots and turning the ball over. Not sure why Shaq keeps kicking it out to him. Shaq is still seeing mostly single coverage at this point and missing quite a few easy shots. He's drawing a lot of fouls though. Seems like he is touching the ball on just about every possession. Kobe starts looking to score mid-way through the 3rd and ends up finishing the quarter with 6 pts and 2 ast (3-6 fg, last shot was desperation shot to beat the buzzer). Of his 6 shots only 1 was a bad shot, and that came with around 30 seconds left when he fired up a 3-pointer that was clearly a heat check.

Rip is still unable to get going against Kobe. Kobe guards him on 18 possessions and he goes scoreless (0-2 fg). Billups had a bit more success but was only guarded on 4 possessions, one of them on the break. He managed 4 pts (1-1 fg, 2-2 ft), and his 1 fg was a poor defensive play by Kobe who sort of let Billups get by him for an uncontested layup towards the end of the quarter (not sure what he was thinking).

Overall, great quarter from Kobe. Pistons went on a nice run to close the gap so despite his production the lead shrunk from 8 to 2 thanks to Billups having his way with Payton, Rip burning George a few times, and Sheed going to work on Malone. Lakers overall defense was not very good as they allowed the Pistons to score 30 points. Part of that was they got themselves into foul trouble very early (with like 9 minutes left), so they had to ease up the pressure the rest of the way. Malone looks very close to done though. He's limping around the court and I'm surprised Phil has allowed him to stay in the game. While he had a productive quarter on the offensive end he's clearly a liability on defense. He can hardly run the floor and is having a very tough time switching/rotating. It really sucks to see him have to play through that. He wants to be out there badly but it's just not working out too well. A healthy Malone would have really made this an interesting series. No question about it.


4th Quarter

Kobe sits early in the 4th for a 2 minute breather and during that time the Lakers offense looked completely out of sync (lots of ISO's, no touches for Shaq). After Kobe checks back in things seem to normalize a little. With the Lakers down 70-71, he draws triple-team on drive and hits Fisher for an uncontested corner 3. On the next possession he gets inside position on Rip and scores a layup on a nice entry pass from Fisher. Lakers regain the lead and are up 75-71. Kobe is looking to work the ball into Shaq but he's struggling somewhat (misses a wild shot and has another one sent back by Ben Wallace). Midway through the 4th Shaq picks up his 5th foul on a charge, but the replay shows it was a flop by Wallace (Lakers up 75-73). While Shaq is out Kobe goes 1-3 (layup on nice drive, tough miss over Prince from the left wing, blocked shot by Prince which replay shows is actually a foul). Lakers now down 77-81 with Shaq back in the game. Billups and Rip have been having their way with Fisher and Rush, to a point where Rivers says they need to put Kobe back on Rip. Good ole Fisher hits a big time 3-pointer to stop the bleeding on a kick out from Shaq and on the next possession Kobe blows by Prince for a dunk to bring the Lakers to within 1.

Pistons get a couple of scores to go up 83-89 with 47.8 remaining as Kobe misses 2 awful shots (long, contested 3-pointers early in the clock). Shaq gets an offensive rebound + putback + foul on one of those misses to bring the Lakers to within 3 with 35.9 left. Kobe then hits the game-tying 3-pointer from the left wing over Rip with 2.1 left to force OT. He scored a total of 10 points (4-9 fg, 1-2 ft) and dished out 1 assist with no turnovers. Wasn't super impressed with his performance, although it wasn't bad either.

Defensively, Kobe was mostly on Prince who grabbed 3 early offensive rebounds off long misses. None of those resulted in scores, but Kobe could have done a better job of boxing out to prevent those 2nd chances. He didn't give up any points and mostly played solid defense so overall it was a good quarter.


OT

On the first play of OT Kobe attacks the basket and dumps it off to Shaq for an uncontested dunk. On the next possession he uses a Malone screen to get into the paint and hits a floater. On the 3rd possession he dumps it into Shaq who hits a short turnaround. Lakers go up 95-89 and Detroit calls timeout. Pistons look shook as Lakers are playing with incredible energy. On the Lakers next possession Kobe hits a nice little runner off the glass with Prince contesting to put the Lakers back up 6 with 2:10 remaining. With Kobe feeling it he tries to break through a double team from 20 feet out and loses the ball. Pistons don't capitalize.

Kobe now looking to kill some clock and swings it over to Fisher, who swings it over to Walton, who hits Shaq for an alley-oop. Lakers go up 99-91 with 1:22 left and Bill Walton is shown smiling from ear to ear as Walton gets his 8th assist (tied with Magic for most ever by a rookie in a Finals game). Kobe takes 2 more shots in the finals 40 seconds. The first is a 21-footer from the right wing with the clock expiring and Prince all over him (good possession as the Lakers were just trying to kill the clock) and his final shot was blocked as he attacked the rim. Overall in OT he scored 4 points (2-4 fg) and had 2 assists with 1 turnover.

Rip was trying hard to score, but he ended up with only 2 points which he got off a runner in the lane after he broke free off a Wallace screen. Kobe didn't contest much as he was trying to avoid picking up his 6th.

Great all around game by Kobe. Walton also came up huge in that 2nd quarter. Outside of getting the Lakers offense going, he was playing good defense as well. Probably his best playoff game ever.

[wutevahung]

2004 NBA Finals - G2 (Pistons @ Lakers)

Pre Game

Doc Rivers: Says that the Lakers defense needs to improve as the Pistons were getting too many open shots in G1. The focus was on Hamilton, and as a result other guys were getting shots off the attention he was receiving. Phil told him the Lakers needed to make adjustments on offense to give Kobe more room to attack so that he didn't settle for jumpers.

Michelle Tafoya: Phil said that Kobe spent a lot of energy guarding Rip in G1 and that had some effects on his offense (lots of shots coming up short). Due to that Phil planned on limiting how much time he spent on Rip so that he could be more effective on offense.

Al Michaels: Lakers need more help from role players. Shaq and Kobe did it all in G1 and no one else stepped up.


1st Quarter

Kobe was bringing the ball up the floor most of the quarter. He had 3 turnovers -- an offensive foul driving to the basket and 2 errant passes (including a lob attempt to Shaq). He had a single assist to Shaq on a short baseline jumper, but he made several good passes to open shooters as he collapsed the defense by attacking the basket. He's clearly looking to be more of a play-maker than a scorer. His only points so far are from a dunk off a give and go with Shaq and FT's after drawing a shooting foul on a pull-up shot in transition (4 pts, 1-1 fg, 2-2 ft, 1 ast, 3 tov). Shaq is getting a good amount of touches early on but he's swinging it to the open shooter or trying to hit a cutter. So far he has 3 pts (1-2 fg, 1-2 ft, 1 tov). Shaq's not getting doubled too much. Neither is Kobe for that matter. Pistons just seem to be playing everyone straight up and helping only when needed.

Malone, Payton, and George all struggled. At one point they had 2 pts on 1-8 fg. Sheed is giving Malone fits. All of his shots are off balance and heavily contested. Payton and George are completely useless out there. Walton checked in (for George) with the Lakers down 13-10 and immediately created an opportunity for Malone who drew a shooting foul (Sheed's 2nd foul). He's doing a good job of getting to the right spots (unlike George), making quick decisions with the ball, and overall improved the Lakers spacing which gave Kobe more room to work. From that point on the Lakers started clicking offensively, and Walton made a nice play towards the end of the 1st to get Rush an uncontested 3-pointer. Lakers end quarter on a nice 8-3 run.

Kobe mostly guarded Rip who scored 4 points (2-2 fg, 15 poss). Both scores were layups where his quick first step got him by Kobe on baseline drives. I think Kobe was expecting there to be a help defender as he was funneling him baseline, but he still should have done a better job of keeping Rip in front of him. Other than that his defense looked good. Rip wasn't as active though either. Not sure why that is.

The Lakers as a team seem to be playing with much more energy than G1, particularly on the defensive end.


2nd Quarter

Walton stays in the game as he's been highly effective, allowing Kobe to play more off the ball. Kobe's shots have all been in rhythm. He scored 9 points (4-7 fg, 1-1 ft) in the quarter and has been passing the ball really well. Walton and Payton are mostly setting up the offense at this point. Walton has done a nice job getting in the paint and hit Shaq for a couple of dunks as he forced the defense to react. He's having the game of his life -- 5 assists, would have been 6 if Malone didn't blow a point blank layup in transition.

On defense, Kobe is again mostly guarding Rip who scores twice (both baseline moves with no help defense). After those scores, Rip gets completely shut out and starts showing frustration (gets a tech after offensive foul/charge) as Kobe is forcing him into tough shots and turnovers. Rivers has been going on and on about the Lakers defense all quarter and says Kobe is the guy leading the effort/team on defense, and a couple of his plays really energized the team (like a blocked lob attempt where he skies to prevent what would have been an easy Prince dunk). Rip scored 4 points (2-3 fg) and was forced into 3 turnovers in the quarter.


3rd Quarter

Kobe starts the quarter in play-maker mode, getting both Shaq and George a couple of easy layups. It seems the Lakers plan is now to get Shaq more involved as they are constantly dumping it into him. The Lakers ball movement is crisp as Kobe and Malone are doing a great job of swinging the ball to get guys uncontested shots in the paint. Payton continues to struggle, throwing up wild shots and turning the ball over. Not sure why Shaq keeps kicking it out to him. Shaq is still seeing mostly single coverage at this point and missing quite a few easy shots. He's drawing a lot of fouls though. Seems like he is touching the ball on just about every possession. Kobe starts looking to score mid-way through the 3rd and ends up finishing the quarter with 6 pts and 2 ast (3-6 fg, last shot was desperation shot to beat the buzzer). Of his 6 shots only 1 was a bad shot, and that came with around 30 seconds left when he fired up a 3-pointer that was clearly a heat check.

Rip is still unable to get going against Kobe. Kobe guards him on 18 possessions and he goes scoreless (0-2 fg). Billups had a bit more success but was only guarded on 4 possessions, one of them on the break. He managed 4 pts (1-1 fg, 2-2 ft), and his 1 fg was a poor defensive play by Kobe who sort of let Billups get by him for an uncontested layup towards the end of the quarter (not sure what he was thinking).

Overall, great quarter from Kobe. Pistons went on a nice run to close the gap so despite his production the lead shrunk from 8 to 2 thanks to Billups having his way with Payton, Rip burning George a few times, and Sheed going to work on Malone. Lakers overall defense was not very good as they allowed the Pistons to score 30 points. Part of that was they got themselves into foul trouble very early (with like 9 minutes left), so they had to ease up the pressure the rest of the way. Malone looks very close to done though. He's limping around the court and I'm surprised Phil has allowed him to stay in the game. While he had a productive quarter on the offensive end he's clearly a liability on defense. He can hardly run the floor and is having a very tough time switching/rotating. It really sucks to see him have to play through that. He wants to be out there badly but it's just not working out too well. A healthy Malone would have really made this an interesting series. No question about it.


4th Quarter

Kobe sits early in the 4th for a 2 minute breather and during that time the Lakers offense looked completely out of sync (lots of ISO's, no touches for Shaq). After Kobe checks back in things seem to normalize a little. With the Lakers down 70-71, he draws triple-team on drive and hits Fisher for an uncontested corner 3. On the next possession he gets inside position on Rip and scores a layup on a nice entry pass from Fisher. Lakers regain the lead and are up 75-71. Kobe is looking to work the ball into Shaq but he's struggling somewhat (misses a wild shot and has another one sent back by Ben Wallace). Midway through the 4th Shaq picks up his 5th foul on a charge, but the replay shows it was a flop by Wallace (Lakers up 75-73). While Shaq is out Kobe goes 1-3 (layup on nice drive, tough miss over Prince from the left wing, blocked shot by Prince which replay shows is actually a foul). Lakers now down 77-81 with Shaq back in the game. Billups and Rip have been having their way with Fisher and Rush, to a point where Rivers says they need to put Kobe back on Rip. Good ole Fisher hits a big time 3-pointer to stop the bleeding on a kick out from Shaq and on the next possession Kobe blows by Prince for a dunk to bring the Lakers to within 1.

Pistons get a couple of scores to go up 83-89 with 47.8 remaining as Kobe misses 2 awful shots (long, contested 3-pointers early in the clock). Shaq gets an offensive rebound + putback + foul on one of those misses to bring the Lakers to within 3 with 35.9 left. Kobe then hits the game-tying 3-pointer from the left wing over Rip with 2.1 left to force OT. He scored a total of 10 points (4-9 fg, 1-2 ft) and dished out 1 assist with no turnovers. Wasn't super impressed with his performance, although it wasn't bad either.

Defensively, Kobe was mostly on Prince who grabbed 3 early offensive rebounds off long misses. None of those resulted in scores, but Kobe could have done a better job of boxing out to prevent those 2nd chances. He didn't give up any points and mostly played solid defense so overall it was a good quarter.


OT

On the first play of OT Kobe attacks the basket and dumps it off to Shaq for an uncontested dunk. On the next possession he uses a Malone screen to get into the paint and hits a floater. On the 3rd possession he dumps it into Shaq who hits a short turnaround. Lakers go up 95-89 and Detroit calls timeout. Pistons look shook as Lakers are playing with incredible energy. On the Lakers next possession Kobe hits a nice little runner off the glass with Prince contesting to put the Lakers back up 6 with 2:10 remaining. With Kobe feeling it he tries to break through a double team from 20 feet out and loses the ball. Pistons don't capitalize.

Kobe now looking to kill some clock and swings it over to Fisher, who swings it over to Walton, who hits Shaq for an alley-oop. Lakers go up 99-91 with 1:22 left and Bill Walton is shown smiling from ear to ear as Walton gets his 8th assist (tied with Magic for most ever by a rookie in a Finals game). Kobe takes 2 more shots in the finals 40 seconds. The first is a 21-footer from the right wing with the clock expiring and Prince all over him (good possession as the Lakers were just trying to kill the clock) and his final shot was blocked as he attacked the rim. Overall in OT he scored 4 points (2-4 fg) and had 2 assists with 1 turnover.

Rip was trying hard to score, but he ended up with only 2 points which he got off a runner in the lane after he broke free off a Wallace screen. Kobe didn't contest much as he was trying to avoid picking up his 6th.

Great all around game by Kobe. Walton also came up huge in that 2nd quarter. Outside of getting the Lakers offense going, he was playing good defense as well. Probably his best playoff game ever.

hey man just want you to know i appreciate your effort.

I never rewatch any of the games that lakers lost, so i can't recall a lot of details in this series, but thank you for doing a thorough analysis.

[JordansBulls]

Guess I'd go with Lebron. Kobe had a really bad series but at least he tried. From what I remember of the 2011 Finals, it felt like Lebron was holding back. Kobe might have been negatively impacting his team with his efforts but at least he was trying to get something going. Lebron looked invisible at times which is pretty disappointing for someone that's supposed to be the best player in the league. Pretty much wasted one of Wade's last good years in the playoffs. Thankfully, Lebron improved in the next three Finals and lived up to his reputation as the most dominant player in the NBA.

I wouldn't say that Lebron didn't try I think it was that Shawn Marion put the clamps on him in that series.

[Brenice]

The person in 2011 who stopped LeBron James is the same and only person who can stop LeBron James, LeBron James. Do y'all not remember game announcers asking "What's wrong with LeBron? "! The Heat would be in good shape thru the 3rd quarters, but in the 4th, they would be playing 4 on 5 on offense as LeBron played hot potato out behind the 3pt line. Not putting any pressure on the defense and frustrating Wade. It was if LeBron had stage fright. That is why the Heat didn't 3-peat. LeBron himself was disappointed in himself and made up for it the next year. But it was not Marion, or Kidd, or Stevenson all backed by Tyson Chandler. Those guys would not have contained a Jordan or Kobe. Those guys can't contain LeBron.

The answer to the question is LeBron. Kobe TRIED against a great defense. LeBron was scared to try.

[nikomCH]

LeBron easily because anyone who isn't a complete idiot would realize if they actually watched the 04 Finals that Kobe sabotaging the team for FMVP is nothing but pure fiction (which is now being thrown around as fact simply because it's a fitting story for his personality at the time).

Edit: Actually you can even read a quote from Phil's book where Kobe is quoted as saying "You know how much I hate this ****ing offense," Kobe said, "but I'll settle in and we'll just execute the triangle and get the ball into Shaq and beat them up on the inside."

Watch the series and you'll see that Kobe did just that. Offensively he was horrendous because when he did get shots they were either bail out shots that he was forced into by his teammates or absurdly difficult because of how much pressure the Piston's were putting on him. I rarely saw him just jack up shots without first trying to run the offense.

[Jonny Blaze]

But it was not Marion, or Kidd, or Stevenson all backed by Tyson Chandler. Those guys would not have contained a Jordan or Kobe. Those guys can't contain LeBron.

.

They did.

They did contain Lebron James. They also contained Kobe Bryant.

[NO-KG-AI]

I don't necessarily know who helped or hurt the team worse, but I was a lot more disappointed in the effort LeBron put forth. Kobe could have, and should have looked to get the ball to different guys and create in that way more, but against that defense and such, it's a tough match, and he had a really bad series as far as shooting the ball, etc.

LeBron just straight up disappointed me, because I couldn't figure out what he was actually trying to accomplish at some points.

[Swagalicious]

But it was not Marion, or Kidd, or Stevenson all backed by Tyson Chandler. Those guys would not have contained a Jordan or Kobe. Those guys can't contain LeBron.

.

They did.

They did contain Lebron James. They also contained Kobe Bryant.

Ok we get it. LeBron taking like 5 FGA total in 4th quarters, while looking shook af, commiting silly mistakes and getting punked on defense was all the Mavs. And the also the great Mavs defense managed to slow down a 32-year old Kobe Bryant with major knee issues, coming off 3 Finals runs and his worst regular season in maybe half a decade..kudos to them. Lol.

Mavs won with offense. Everybody and their momma knows this.

[Brenice]

But it was not Marion, or Kidd, or Stevenson all backed by Tyson Chandler. Those guys would not have contained a Jordan or Kobe. Those guys can't contain LeBron.

.

They did.

They did contain Lebron James. They also contained Kobe Bryant.

News flash, LeBron staying in 3pt land in the 4th quarters, not participating or competing is SUBMISSION. LeBron is weak willed. No scoring, no assists, no rebounds because LeBron had no fight in him. What did he bring to the table that series? What did he expect, Dallas to give the championship to Miami?

You do realize that Kidd and Marion are too small, too slow, and were past their athletic primes. Stevenson, a bum on offense, had more offensive swag than LeBron.

[Jonny Blaze]

But it was not Marion, or Kidd, or Stevenson all backed by Tyson Chandler. Those guys would not have contained a Jordan or Kobe. Those guys can't contain LeBron.

.

They did.

They did contain Lebron James. They also contained Kobe Bryant.

Ok we get it. LeBron taking like 5 FGA total in 4th quarters, while looking shook af, commiting silly mistakes and getting punked on defense was all the Mavs. And the also the great Mavs defense managed to slow down a 32-year old Kobe Bryant with major knee issues, coming off 3 Finals runs and his worst regular season in maybe half a decade..kudos to them. Lol.

Mavs won with offense. Everybody and their momma knows this.

The Mavs won that series by holding Miami to 14 points in the 4th quarter of Game 4.

It might have just been dumb luck....but in my book if you hold Lebron, Wade and Bosh to 14 points in the 4th quarter you must be playing some damn good defense.

I don't understand you and brenice trusting hypothetical situations more than what actually happened in real life....but that happens often around here.

[Jonny Blaze]

But it was not Marion, or Kidd, or Stevenson all backed by Tyson Chandler. Those guys would not have contained a Jordan or Kobe. Those guys can't contain LeBron.

.

They did.

They did contain Lebron James. They also contained Kobe Bryant.

News flash, LeBron staying in 3pt land in the 4th quarters, not participating or competing is SUBMISSION. LeBron is weak willed. No scoring, no assists, no rebounds because LeBron had no fight in him. What did he bring to the table that series? What did he expect, Dallas to give the championship to Miami?

You do realize that Kidd and Marion are too small, too slow, and were past their athletic primes. Stevenson, a bum on offense, had more offensive swag than LeBron.

Newsflash Brenice.

The Mavericks held Lebron James to 17 ppg in the 2011 Finals.

The rest of your post is gibberish......why?

Because you are arguing against something that actually happened in real life.

I watched it with my own two eyes. There is proof of this happening on youtube, DVD's...etc.

If you really think a hyper competitive super Athlete such as Lebron James was not trying his hardest to win the 2011 NBA Championship....then you take yourself too seriously.

The Mavs had a defensive gameplan that not only limited Lebron James to a below averages series, but also did the same against Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, LaMarcus Aldridge, Paul Gasol and a host of other elite players.

[Swagalicious]

What actually happened in real life is that the Mavs defensive rating for that series was 107

If you think that's damn good defense, more power to you

[Jonny Blaze]

What actually happened in real life is that the Mavs defensive rating for that series was 107

If you think that's damn good defense, more power to you

What actually happened was the Mavs holding Lebron James to 17 ppg and winning the 2011 NBA Championship.

What actually happened in real life was the Mavs defeating teams with LaMarcus Aldridge, Paul Gasol, Chris Bosh, James Harden, Russel Westbrook, Kevin Durant, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James and Dwayne Wade on their way to the NBA title.

You can't defeat teams led by those sort of players if you don't play damn good defense.

But go ahead and trust your advance stat over what actually happened in real life.

[Swagalicious]

Ok so by your logic the Mavs defense must be>08 Celtics defense because Kobe and LeBron put up worse numbers right?

[Brenice]

Spoiler:

They did.

They did contain Lebron James. They also contained Kobe Bryant.

News flash, LeBron staying in 3pt land in the 4th quarters, not participating or competing is SUBMISSION. LeBron is weak willed. No scoring, no assists, no rebounds because LeBron had no fight in him. What did he bring to the table that series? What did he expect, Dallas to give the championship to Miami?

You do realize that Kidd and Marion are too small, too slow, and were past their athletic primes. Stevenson, a bum on offense, had more offensive swag than LeBron.

Newsflash Brenice.

The Mavericks held Lebron James to 17 ppg in the 2011 Finals.

The rest of your post is gibberish......why?

Because you are arguing against something that actually happened in real life.

I watched it with my own two eyes. There is proof of this happening on youtube, DVD's...etc.

If you really think a hyper competitive super Athlete such as Lebron James was not trying his hardest to win the 2011 NBA Championship....then you take yourself too seriously.

The Mavs had a defensive gameplan that not only limited Lebron James to a below averages series, but also did the same against Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, LaMarcus Aldridge, Paul Gasol and a host of other elite players.

Dirk, Wade, Jet, ALL outplayed LeBron. I guess it is your opinion LeBron wanted the ball in those 4th quarters. His play sure baffled game announcers.

You tell me what LeBron was doing in those 4th quarters. He sure wasn't scoring. That's fine. He was on the court. Was he defending? With all of his defensive versatility, was he defending Dirk? If not Dirk, who? Was he initiating the offense? Was he rebounding?

[Jonny Blaze]

Ok so by your logic the Mavs defense must be>08 Celtics defense because Kobe and LeBron put up worse numbers right?

I don't know about defensive rating but that Mavs team would beat the 2008 Celtics in a head to head series.