Jordan's ranking if his career ended in 1989?

Jim Naismith · Post #1 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:22 am

Where would you rank Michael Jordan all-time if his career ended after the 1988-89 season?

Vote for your choice in the poll above.

HornetJail · Post #2 » by **HornetJail** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:30 am

I have a hard time believing that anyone who played just four years with little to no playoff success can crack top 50, no matter how dominant he was during those four years.

OnePostLegend · Post #3 » by **OnePostLegend** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:30 am

I don't think players qualify for all-time ranking consideration after four seasons of service.

RebelWithACause · Post #4 » by **RebelWithACause** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:48 am

Between 20 and 30 for me.

Just too dominant to rank lower, but a very hard question to answer because of lacking longevity

Jaivl · Post #5 » by **Jaivl** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:58 am

Out the top 50.

I mean, where do you rank Stephen Curry...?

Jim Naismith · Post #6 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:48 am

Jaivl wrote:Out the top 50.

I mean, where do you rank Stephen Curry...?

Not sure if you're serious . . .

In 1988, Jordan won MVP over Magic and Bird. In 1987 and 1989, Jordan was #2 in MVP voting.

Stephen Curry was #13 in 2013 and #6 in 2014.

The gap between 1989 Jordan and 2014 Curry is big.

Jaivl · Post #7 » by **Jaivl** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:54 am

Jim Naismith wrote:
Jaivl wrote:Out the top 50.

I mean, where do you rank Stephen Curry...?

In 1988, Jordan won MVP over Magic and Bird. In 1987 and 1989, Jordan was #2 in MVP voting.

Stephen Curry was #13 in 2013 and #6 in 2014.

The gap between 1989 Jordan and 2014 Curry is big.

And that's why he is "out the top 50" and not "out the top 150".

Jim Naismith · Post #8 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:57 am

Jaivl wrote:
Jim Naismith wrote:
Jaivl wrote:Out the top 50.

I mean, where do you rank Stephen Curry...?

In 1988, Jordan won MVP over Magic and Bird. In 1987 and 1989, Jordan was #2 in MVP voting.

Stephen Curry was #13 in 2013 and #6 in 2014.

The gap between 1989 Jordan and 2014 Curry is big.

And that's why he is "out the top 50" and not "out the top 150".

On the 2011 RealGM Top 100 list, Chris Paul (with only 6 seasons) was #50.

I think 1989 Jordan was more accomplished.

Jaivl · Post #9 » by **Jaivl** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:10 pm

I'd say 4 and 1/3 seasons of young Jordan aren't much better (if they are) than 6 seasons of prime Paul.

Jim Naismith · Post #10 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:37 pm

Jaivl wrote:I'd say 4 and 1/3 seasons of young Jordan aren't much better (if they are) than 6 seasons of prime Paul.

3 of those young-Jordan seasons are prime Jordan, as in MVP-level seasons.

2014 Chris Paul has 1.46 MVP shares, #26 on the all-time list.

1989 Jordan has 2.30 MVP shares, between #20 and #21.

WhateverBro · Post #11 » by **WhateverBro** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:41 pm

Jaivl wrote:I'd say 4 and 1/3 seasons of young Jordan aren't much better (if they are) than 6 seasons of prime Paul.

Way to word it... prime Paul and young Jordan.

Jim Naismith · Post #12 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:22 pm

BizGilwalker wrote:I have a hard time believing that anyone who played just four years with little to no playoff success can crack top 50, no matter how dominant he was during those four years.

The Bulls made it to the Eastern Conference Finals in 1989, losing to the eventual champion Pistons in six games.

Jaivl · Post #13 » by **Jaivl** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:24 pm

Jim Naismith wrote:
Jaivl wrote:I'd say 4 and 1/3 seasons of young Jordan aren't much better (if they are) than 6 seasons of prime Paul.

3 of those young-Jordan seasons are prime Jordan, as in MVP-level seasons.

2014 Chris Paul has 1.46 MVP shares, #26 on the all-time list.

1989 Jordan has 2.30 MVP shares, between #20 and #21.

5 first MJ seasons (345 g): 41.5 p, 7.8 r, 7.5 a, 3.5 st, 4.2 TO per 100 poss on 58.9 TS%
120 Offensive rating, 73.4 Win Shares (0.262 per 48)

6 first Paul seasons (425 g): 27.0 p, 6.6 r, 14.4 a, 3.4 st, 3.6 TO per 100 poss on 57.1 TS%
121 Offensive rating, 76.4 Win shares (0.233 per 48)

Playoff:
5 first MJ seasons (37 g): 42.9 p, 8.3 r, 8.1 a, 3.0 st, 4.7 TO per 100 poss on 58.9 TS%
119 Offensive rating, 7.7 Win Shares (0.235 per 48)

6 first Paul seasons (23 g): 29.0 p, 7.1 r, 15.1 a, 2.8 st, 4.0 TO per 100 poss on 57.7 TS%
120 Offensive rating, 4.0 Win shares (0.207 per 48)

WhateverBro wrote:Way to word it... prime Paul and young Jordan.

Well, I think that after 89/90 Jordan is in a completely different tier as a player. I agree that the wording was quite unfortunate though.

DQuinn1575 · Post #14 » by **DQuinn1575** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:50 pm

He wouldn't get ranked above Durant in the Top 100 poll, and Durant is probably borderline Top 30.

So 30-50, probably closer to 50.

Pg81 · Post #15 » by **Pg81** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:58 pm

Only 4 years, never winning anything in the playoffs? Outside the top 50 for me. While success in the playoffs is not everything and other factors play a large role too I do not deal much with what/if hypothetical asumptions.

Jim Naismith · Post #16 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:33 pm

Pg81 wrote:Only 4 years, never winning anything in the playoffs? Outside the top 50 for me. While success in the playoffs is not everything and other factors play a large role too I do not deal much with what/if hypothetical asumptions.

Losing to bad-boy Pistons in the ECF 4-2 isn't nothing.

Miles ahead of TMac (ranked #37).

And better than CP3, who's never been to the conference finals.

Pg81 · Post #17 » by **Pg81** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:35 pm

Jim Naismith wrote:
Pg81 wrote:Only 4 years, never winning anything in the playoffs? Outside the top 50 for me. While success in the playoffs is not everything and other factors play a large role too I do not deal much with what/if hypothetical asumptions.

Losing to bad-boy Pistons in the ECF 4-2 isn't nothing.

Miles ahead of TMac (ranked #37).

And better than CP3, who's never been to the conference finals.

Full career vs 4 years. Sorry, but no contest for me, full career wins big time.

Jim Naismith · Post #18 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:59 pm

DQuinn1575 wrote:He wouldn't get ranked above Durant in the Top 100 poll, and Durant is probably borderline Top 30.

So 30-50, probably closer to 50.

Is this your opinion or what you think the consensus is?

Because I think by 1988, Jordan had already reached a peak higher than 2014 Durant.

He had already edged ahead of Magic and Bird by that point as the best player in the NBA.

And even in 1988, if I remember correctly, there was talk of Jordan being potentially the greatest ever.

Frosty · Post #19 » by **Frosty** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:57 pm

4 seasons is not going to rank you very high, no matter how impressive. We'd all be talking what if scenarios and then shutting it down because what ifs don't get you anywhere in rankings.

DQuinn1575 · Post #20 » by **DQuinn1575** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:48 pm

Jim Naismith wrote:
DQuinn1575 wrote:He wouldn't get ranked above Durant in the Top 100 poll, and Durant is probably borderline Top 30.

So 30-50, probably closer to 50.

Is this your opinion or what you think the consensus is?

Because I think by 1988, Jordan had already reached a peak higher than 2014 Durant.

He had already edged ahead of Magic and Bird by that point as the best player in the NBA.

And even in 1988, if I remember correctly, there was talk of Jordan being potentially the greatest ever.

Peak by 1988 he is (was) in top 3 - with Jabbar and Wilt -

Career - will be real tough to put him above anybody who is in so far -I would probably have him in the 40s.

I'm assuming he is either (1) hurt or (2) following his baseball dream.