Which top 20-30 guy could be Top 10 if they were luckier?

[ThunderDan9]

Julius Erving, obviously. Also Oscar, West and Karl Malone.
But they are (or should be!) very close to the the Top10 anyway.

Walton is of course the biggest individual "WHAT IF" in the history of the NBA. He is potential Top10 material.

And what I've read of Elgin Baylor... he sure is a candidate in this department. Just imagine LeBron&Co. in the NBA while being in the ARMY... and then those injuries...

[Destructor]

Wade- injuries/ meniscus taken out in college.

2005- Title if he wasn't injured.

2007- took 2 years of his prime and some accolade as well as that 'respect' factor that Kobe gets even when he's playing poor.

2011- LeBron playing poorly.

So if Wade were luckier he'd have 5 titles and 3 FMVPs.

They were't beating the Spurs in 05. If Lebron played better in 2011 there's a good chance LeBron would have been FMVP. If he played better in 2014 they may have won the title then.

If LeBron doesn't screw up 2011, Wade has 4 rings and a 3peat.

Yes but he's not FMVP. Also, your bias is clearly showing in that LeBron has been the superior player throughout their time together and Wade has actually been below expectations. You really should stick to what you know.

[Destructor]

Wade- injuries/ meniscus taken out in college.

2005- Title if he wasn't injured.

2007- took 2 years of his prime and some accolade as well as that 'respect' factor that Kobe gets even when he's playing poor.

2011- LeBron playing poorly.

So if Wade were luckier he'd have 5 titles and 3 FMVPs.

They were't beating the Spurs in 05. If Lebron played better in 2011 there's a good chance LeBron would have been FMVP. If he played better in 2014 they may have won the title then.

Spurs is arguable but I do think the Heat would trump them, either way Wade would have had another chance at title, statistically he's played superbly in 3/4 finals (in his career) so I like the odds if healthy. There's no chance LeBron would win Finals MVP if he played even 10% better( which is all it would have taken to win the title).Wade was averaging 27 5 and 7 on 55% shooting in the 2011 finals.

Heat were getting blown out in 2014, so it would have taken a lot more. It's not even close of a comparison as 2011 in terms one star playing 'better' to win the title.

Doesn't matter. LeBron performed to expectations all throughout their tenure together. Wade didn't.

[penbeast0]

Where would Dominique be ranked if he was drafted by the Lakers instead of Worthy? Thus, putting him in the West instead of the East where Jordan, Bird, Bad Boys, Ewing Knicks resided.

Magic with the Human Highlight Reel.

Or Terry Cummings who was a (slightly) better player than either Worthy or Nique up to his injury while playing on the Donald Sterling jinxed Clippers, the most star crossed team in NBA history.

[Joao Saraiva]

Here's a good one...

Blazers didn't collapse in Game 7 of the 2000 WCF. Pippen could of won FMVP and finish his career with SEVEN rings. He'd be ahead of Hakeem, maybe Shaq (but that can be debated).

Hakeem has a great case for GOAT defender, he is arguably top 3 peak ever and a very complete player.

I don't even care about that 7th ring of Pippen and FMVP. He's just not in the same tier as players like Shaq or Hakeem. He peaked lower than both of them, couldn't even get 1 MVP award and had nowhere near the impact of those 2.

Even with that ring I doubt most people consider Pippen a top 10 player ever.

[Sign5]

They were't beating the Spurs in 05. If Lebron played better in 2011 there's a good chance LeBron would have been FMVP. If he played better in 2014 they may have won the title then.

Spurs is arguable but I do think the Heat would trump them, either way Wade would have had another chance at title, statistically he's played superbly in 3/4 finals (in his career) so I like the odds if healthy. There's no chance LeBron would win Finals MVP if he played even 10% better( which is all it would have taken to win the title).Wade was averaging 27 5 and 7 on 55% shooting in the 2011 finals.

Heat were getting blown out in 2014, so it would have taken a lot more. It's not even close of a comparison as 2011 in terms one star playing 'better' to win the title.

Doesn't matter. LeBron performed to expectations all throughout their tenure together. Wade didn't.

No he didn't

Don't be or play dense, he did NOT play up to expectations in the 2011 finals, even the biggest LeBron homers would admit that.

[Destructor]

Spurs is arguable but I do think the Heat would trump them, either way Wade would have had another chance at title, statistically he's played superbly in 3/4 finals (in his career) so I like the odds if healthy. There's no chance LeBron would win Finals MVP if he played even 10% better( which is all it would have taken to win the title).Wade was averaging 27 5 and 7 on 55% shooting in the 2011 finals.

Heat were getting blown out in 2014, so it would have taken a lot more. It's not even close of a comparison as 2011 in terms one star playing 'better' to win the title.

Doesn't matter. LeBron performed to expectations all throughout their tenure together. Wade didn't.

No he didn't

Don't be or play dense, he did NOT play up to expectations in the 2011 finals, even the biggest LeBron homers would admit that.

Im referring to their entire tenure together. If you read carefully next time maybe you'll be able to comprehend things easier. Wade under performed over the entire 4 years. THAT IS FACT.
It's funny; all i see are Wade homers talking about how Lebron under performed, but the entire **** time Wade played like the second fiddle he was.

[Sign5]

Doesn't matter. LeBron performed to expectations all throughout their tenure together. Wade didn't.

No he didn't

Don't be or play dense, he did NOT play up to expectations in the 2011 finals, even the biggest LeBron homers would admit that.

Im referring to their entire tenure together. If you read carefully next time maybe you'll be able to comprehend things easier. Wade under performed over the entire 4 years. THAT IS FACT.
It's funny; all i see are Wade homers talking about how Lebron under performed, but the entire **** time Wade played like the second fiddle he was.

It's you that is lacking in comprehension OR trying to detract from the main point that you quoted me on.

The original statement was that LeBron underperformed in 2011, which cost Miami the title and Wade a Finals MVP, that's a FACT. Other things you're discussing are irrelevant and doltish. Especially when citing an egregious statement such as 'Wade underperformed the ENTIRE 4 years' (as if Wade wasn't equal in performance to LeBron in the entire 2011 playoffs and didn't average 24 6 and 4 in the 2012 nba finals). Wade was dealing with injuries for the 2nd half the tenure but again that all has nothing to do with 2011 which is what I'M arguing . Even then Heat won 2/4 times(including 2013), Wade underperformed in the 2014 finals and LeBron in the 2011 which led to finals defeats.

Again, LeBron disappeared in the 2011 finals which cost Miami and Wade the finals MVP, please refrain from making irrelevant statements that aren't in line with the topic at hand because you're to much of a LeBron homer to discern that LeBron was no more than a slightly better Andre Iguodala in the 2011 finals.

[Destructor]

No he didn't

Don't be or play dense, he did NOT play up to expectations in the 2011 finals, even the biggest LeBron homers would admit that.

Im referring to their entire tenure together. If you read carefully next time maybe you'll be able to comprehend things easier. Wade under performed over the entire 4 years. THAT IS FACT.
It's funny; all i see are Wade homers talking about how Lebron under performed, but the entire **** time Wade played like the second fiddle he was.

It's you that is lacking in comprehension OR trying to detract from the main point that you quoted me on.

The original statement was that LeBron underperformed in 2011, which cost Miami the title and Wade a Finals MVP, that's a FACT. Other things you're discussing are irrelevant and doltish. Especially when citing an egregious statement such as 'Wade underperformed the ENTIRE 4 years' (as if Wade wasn't equal in performance to LeBron in the entire 2011 playoffs and didn't average 24 6 and 4 in the 2012 nba finals). Wade was dealing with injuries for the 2nd half the tenure but again that all has nothing to do with 2011 which is what I'M arguing . Even then Heat won 2/4 times(including 2013), Wade underperformed in the 2014 finals and LeBron in the 2011 which led to finals defeats.

Again, LeBron disappeared in the 2011 finals which cost Miami and Wade the finals MVP, please refrain from making irrelevant statements that aren't in line with the topic at hand because you're to much of a LeBron homer to discern that LeBron was no more than a slightly better Andre Iguodala in the 2011 finals.

wade is a 20-30 player. lebron is top 10. Nothing's changing that. Get over it,

[Brenice]

wade is a 20-30 player. lebron is top 10. Nothing's changing that. Get over it,

Not now, but if they had won rings in 2011 with Wade averaging 27 like they should have, followed by rings in 12 and 13, that's the point of this thread.

[pacers33granger]

If Dirk had beat the Heat in 06 and didn't end up facing the Warriors the next season he would likely be comfortably in most people's top 10.

Reggie Miller also had a lot of bad luck in terms of playoffs. The early Knicks series, the 4 point play, peak Jordan, Artest/O'neal Pacers imploding all could have gone differently and led to several more Finals appearances at the least.

[penbeast0]

If Dirk had beat the Heat in 06 and didn't end up facing the Warriors the next season he would likely be comfortably in most people's top 10.

Reggie Miller also had a lot of bad luck in terms of playoffs. The early Knicks series, the 4 point play, peak Jordan, Artest/O'neal Pacers imploding all could have gone differently and led to several more Finals appearances at the least.

Comfortably? No. For Dirk to make the top 10, Hakeem and Kobe basically have to drop out (they are #10 and 11). Even with another ring and a decent run to 2nd or WCF in 07, I don't think that's an easy choice.

Same goes for Reggie. Unless you are talking about a sustained run of rings and finals (3 rings/6 finals or the equivalent), I'd be surprised if he can push his way that high. His style of play and questionable defensive impact are issues; people are more comfortable with traditional "Just gimme the rock and I'll beat this punk" guys.

[penbeast0]

Here's a good one...

Blazers didn't collapse in Game 7 of the 2000 WCF. Pippen could of won FMVP and finish his career with SEVEN rings. He'd be ahead of Hakeem, maybe Shaq (but that can be debated).

Hakeem has a great case for GOAT defender, he is arguably top 3 peak ever and a very complete player.

I don't even care about that 7th ring of Pippen and FMVP. He's just not in the same tier as players like Shaq or Hakeem. He peaked lower than both of them, couldn't even get 1 MVP award and had nowhere near the impact of those 2.

Even with that ring I doubt most people consider Pippen a top 10 player ever.

How about it MJ retires and the Bulls add Kukoc and go right ahead and win another title. People would start reevaluating MJ's and Pippen's relative impact. Of course, I don't think the Bulls were strong enough without Jordan but ....

[pacers33granger]

If Dirk had beat the Heat in 06 and didn't end up facing the Warriors the next season he would likely be comfortably in most people's top 10.

Reggie Miller also had a lot of bad luck in terms of playoffs. The early Knicks series, the 4 point play, peak Jordan, Artest/O'neal Pacers imploding all could have gone differently and led to several more Finals appearances at the least.

Comfortably? No. For Dirk to make the top 10, Hakeem and Kobe basically have to drop out (they are #10 and 11). Even with another ring and a decent run to 2nd or WCF in 07, I don't think that's an easy choice.

Same goes for Reggie. Unless you are talking about a sustained run of rings and finals (3 rings/6 finals or the equivalent), I'd be surprised if he can push his way that high. His style of play and questionable defensive impact are issues; people are more comfortable with traditional "Just gimme the rock and I'll beat this punk" guys.

Dirk seems to comfortably be in people's top 20 and even up to 14 or 15 on some people's. And that's all with both of those massive collapses at his peak. Maybe some of his rise up people's list lately has been bias because his title was recent. Still, he'd have two titles with his second options being Josh Howard in the first and Jason Terry in the second. I think that, coupled with his crazy win percentage and equal amount of MVPs would put him above Kobe in a lot of people's eyes. I'm not saying I'd necessarily agree, but it's all hypothetical anyway. I'd see him as one of the guys moving in and out of the top 8-12, so I suppose comfortably was the wrong term there.

With Reggie I more brought it up just because he had a lot of bad luck in his career that changed it a bit. I think if it went right he could be looking in the 25-40 range, but wasn't trying to argue he'd had a shot at ever coming even top 20, much less top 10.

[penbeast0]

Fair enough.

[CaliBullsFan]

Pippen is the most unlucky IMO

[Joao Saraiva]

Here's a good one...

Blazers didn't collapse in Game 7 of the 2000 WCF. Pippen could of won FMVP and finish his career with SEVEN rings. He'd be ahead of Hakeem, maybe Shaq (but that can be debated).

Hakeem has a great case for GOAT defender, he is arguably top 3 peak ever and a very complete player.

I don't even care about that 7th ring of Pippen and FMVP. He's just not in the same tier as players like Shaq or Hakeem. He peaked lower than both of them, couldn't even get 1 MVP award and had nowhere near the impact of those 2.

Even with that ring I doubt most people consider Pippen a top 10 player ever.

How about it MJ retires and the Bulls add Kukoc and go right ahead and win another title. People would start reevaluating MJ's and Pippen's relative impact. Of course, I don't think the Bulls were strong enough without Jordan but ....

For me it really comes down to individual play. And if Portland won with Pippen being the FMVP he would get the consideration of a Billups kind of FMVP, or Paul Pierce. They're great players, but still not enough for top 10.

I'm not comparing Pippen to them, just saying so that people don't think I'm saying that.

[Sign5]

Im referring to their entire tenure together. If you read carefully next time maybe you'll be able to comprehend things easier. Wade under performed over the entire 4 years. THAT IS FACT.
It's funny; all i see are Wade homers talking about how Lebron under performed, but the entire **** time Wade played like the second fiddle he was.

It's you that is lacking in comprehension OR trying to detract from the main point that you quoted me on.

The original statement was that LeBron underperformed in 2011, which cost Miami the title and Wade a Finals MVP, that's a FACT. Other things you're discussing are irrelevant and doltish. Especially when citing an egregious statement such as 'Wade underperformed the ENTIRE 4 years' (as if Wade wasn't equal in performance to LeBron in the entire 2011 playoffs and didn't average 24 6 and 4 in the 2012 nba finals). Wade was dealing with injuries for the 2nd half the tenure but again that all has nothing to do with 2011 which is what I'M arguing . Even then Heat won 2/4 times(including 2013), Wade underperformed in the 2014 finals and LeBron in the 2011 which led to finals defeats.

Again, LeBron disappeared in the 2011 finals which cost Miami and Wade the finals MVP, please refrain from making irrelevant statements that aren't in line with the topic at hand because you're to much of a LeBron homer to discern that LeBron was no more than a slightly better Andre Iguodala in the 2011 finals.

wade is a 20-30 player. lebron is top 10. Nothing's changing that. Get over it,

Way to completely go away from the argument because you can't refute it with facts and have just resorted to a completely obvious statement.

The thread is about what top 20 guy could be top 10 if he were luckier. No need to get butthurt because you can't refute arguments with tangible logic. It's pretty obvious that stating LeBron wetting the bed in 2011 rubs you and other LeBron homers the wrong way. It happened, deal with it.

[Narigo]

I going to say Willis Reed. If it werent for injuries, he and frazier might have won more titles

Also, I going to go with Elgin Baylor and David Robinson as honorable mentions

[Brenice]

Pippen is the most unlucky IMO

LMAO. How lucky would Pippen have been if Chicago didn't trade for him?