Through 12 games, where does Kobe rank among current SGs?

[Quake Griffin]

Lol @ these threads. It's just to early.

i could do without the belittling.

a huge story going into this season is how Kobe would look/ perform coming off 2 significant injuries. It's been compounded by how other publications have ranked him.

it's fair to ask people what they see through 12 games of the guy.
the title was made to account for the fact that it's early.

Knock it off. Every one knows these threads are undercover Bryant hate threads. It's been 12 games and like you said he is coming off of two major injuries, yet people still don't give him slack. Other players who didn't have injuries and who aren't playing up to their normal standards don't have nearly as many threads asking the same question over and over. Also I was not belittling you I was laughing at the the thread.

you're wrong.

put the guns down please.

[Jedi32]

Lol no guns. Just calls it how I see it. No biggie.

[Shot Clock]

I swear some of you act like my neighbors daughter when someone questions her favorite boy band. Immediately jumps to the defensive.

The fact is we'd be having this conversation about any player shooting the number of shots Kobe is and shooting as low of a FG%.

His current numbers are the worst ever. You can't ignore this. Toss in his defensive impact and he's symbolizing the worst traits in a basketball player right now.

Get over your man crush and accept the fact he's playing terribly this season.

[BBgun]

When Allen Iverson was doing very similar things to what Kobe is doing now (taking an absurd amount of shots, shooting below 40 percent but still among the top scorers in the league) was he not still considered one of the best players, not just shooting guards, in the league? But Kobe isn't even top 10 at his position anymore supposedly.

[cyclix]

When Allen Iverson was doing very similar things to what Kobe is doing now (taking an absurd amount of shots, shooting below 40 percent but still among the top scorers in the league) was he not still considered one of the best players, not just shooting guards, in the league? But Kobe isn't even top 10 at his position anymore supposedly.

Efficiency wasn't as valued back then as it is now.

[BBgun]

When Allen Iverson was doing very similar things to what Kobe is doing now (taking an absurd amount of shots, shooting below 40 percent but still among the top scorers in the league) was he not still considered one of the best players, not just shooting guards, in the league? But Kobe isn't even top 10 at his position anymore supposedly.

Efficiency wasn't as valued back then as it is now.

That's true. All of these advanced stats didn't really exist or at least they weren't a factor in evaluating players. Doesn't change the fact he put up numbers in the ballpark of 28 ppg on 24 shots, shot right around or below 40% with a TS% below 50. Averaged more TOs than Kobe and got to the line about as much as him, per36 minutes . His PER was right about where Kobe's is now as well. And maybe most importantly...he was still in his prime.

[RayBan-Sematra]

That's true. All of these advanced stats didn't really exist or at least they weren't a factor in evaluating players. Doesn't change the fact he put up numbers in the ballpark of 28 ppg on 24 shots, shot right around or below 40% with a TS% below 50. Averaged more TOs than Kobe and got to the line about as much as him, per36 minutes . His PER was right about where Kobe's is now as well. And maybe most importantly...he was still in his prime.

Iverson was more efficient (even if not by much) and he received more defensive attention then current Kobe.
He also played in a much tougher defensive environment. Perhaps the toughest ever.
Current Kobe is probably posting a significantly lower TS% in the early 00's or late 90's.

Iverson was at 51%TS from 97-04.
Current Kobe is at 49%TS.

Iverson under the new rules (05-07) : 30ppg on 54%TS

The Answer was also a better playmaker and a vastly superior defender.
Kobe for most of this year was negative in terms of wshares. He is currently at .034 WSP48--
Young Iversion was on average .125--
Can't think of any older star who was that bad in that stat and yet was considered good let alone star level.

[G35]

I swear some of you act like my neighbors daughter when someone questions her favorite boy band. Immediately jumps to the defensive.

The fact is we'd be having this conversation about any player shooting the number of shots Kobe is and shooting as low of a FG%.

His current numbers are the worst ever. You can't ignore this. Toss in his defensive impact and he's symbolizing the worst traits in a basketball player right now.

Get over your man crush and accept the fact he's playing terribly this season.

Why are you questioning your neighbors daughter about her favorite boy band?.....

[Exodus]

I swear some of you act like my neighbors daughter when someone questions her favorite boy band. Immediately jumps to the defensive.

The fact is we'd be having this conversation about any player shooting the number of shots Kobe is and shooting as low of a FG%.

His current numbers are the worst ever. You can't ignore this. Toss in his defensive impact and he's symbolizing the worst traits in a basketball player right now.

Get over your man crush and accept the fact he's playing terribly this season.

Why are you questioning your neighbors daughter about her favorite boy band?.....

I was thinking the same thing

[Jedi32]

That's true. All of these advanced stats didn't really exist or at least they weren't a factor in evaluating players. Doesn't change the fact he put up numbers in the ballpark of 28 ppg on 24 shots, shot right around or below 40% with a TS% below 50. Averaged more TOs than Kobe and got to the line about as much as him, per36 minutes . His PER was right about where Kobe's is now as well. And maybe most importantly...he was still in his prime.

Iverson was more efficient (even if not by much) and he received more defensive attention then current Kobe.
He also played in a much tougher defensive environment. Perhaps the toughest ever.
Current Kobe is probably posting a significantly lower TS% in the early 00's or late 90's.

Iverson was at 51%TS from 97-04.
Current Kobe is at 49%TS.

Iverson under the new rules (05-07) : 30ppg on 54%TS

The Answer was also a better playmaker and a vastly superior defender.
Kobe for most of this year was negative in terms of wshares. He is currently at .034 WSP48--
Young Iversion was on average .125--
Can't think of any older star who was that bad in that stat and yet was considered good let alone star level.

Sorry but Iverson was never a better playmaker or defender than Kobe.

[JimmyTD3]

I'd say he's top-5, arguably top-3.

28/5/4 is nothing to scoff at, plus his efficiency will rise to around his career averages.

If he was a top-5 SG in 2008 (which he surely was seeing how he is an NBA first teamer), don't see why he isn't now. Not like the SG position is super-talented

I'd say he's behind JH and Klay, anyone else it's debateable.

[Shot Clock]

I swear some of you act like my neighbors daughter when someone questions her favorite boy band. Immediately jumps to the defensive.

The fact is we'd be having this conversation about any player shooting the number of shots Kobe is and shooting as low of a FG%.

His current numbers are the worst ever. You can't ignore this. Toss in his defensive impact and he's symbolizing the worst traits in a basketball player right now.

Get over your man crush and accept the fact he's playing terribly this season.

Why are you questioning your neighbors daughter about her favorite boy band?.....

I was thinking the same thing

Reading comprehension fails both of you....

"someone does not = me"

I really didn't think that was so hard but you guys reinforce my stereotypes of Kobe fans.

[ardee]

Reading comprehension fails both of you....

"someone does not = me"

I really didn't think that was so hard but you guys reinforce my stereotypes of Kobe fans.

See THIS is the **** BS I have a problem with from the mods... ANYONE can say ANYTHING to Kobe supporters and get away with **** ANYTHING. And if I told even of these trolls to go **** themselves I'd get suspended, or worse, banned, without even a warning.

Mods need to enforce identical standards or stop pretending the way this forum is governed is anything but biased and unfair.

[RayBan-Sematra]

Sorry but Iverson was never a better playmaker or defender than Kobe.

C'mon Jedi.
Prime Iverson was a wayyyyyyyyy better defender then current Kobe.
He was a very good help defender

He was also a more effective playmaker in his ball dominant role though not necessarily a better one.

Young Ivy : 5.7apg
Prime Ivy : 6.3apg
Current Kob : 4.0apg

I'd say he's top-5, arguably top-3.

28/5/4 is nothing to scoff at, plus his efficiency will rise to around his career averages.

28 / 4 on really bad efficiency and while frequently playing outside the team offense (especially in the first couple of games) is pretty much something you'd scoff at. There have been numerous games this year where he has probably hurt the Lakers offensively more then he has helped them.

Plus defensively he might be the worst starting SG in the league.

If he was a top-5 SG in 2008 (which he surely was seeing how he is an NBA first teamer), don't see why he isn't now.

That makes no sense. 2008 was one of his best years. You'd expect him to be Top 5 during his Peak.
You wouldn't expect him to be Top in his 19th year (and he surely isn't so far).

[Jedi32]

My fault I thought you meant prime for prime.

[Shot Clock]

Reading comprehension fails both of you....

"someone does not = me"

I really didn't think that was so hard but you guys reinforce my stereotypes of Kobe fans.

See THIS is the **** BS I have a problem with from the mods... ANYONE can say ANYTHING to Kobe supporters and get away with **** ANYTHING. And if I told even of these trolls to go **** themselves I'd get suspended, or worse, banned, without even a warning.

Mods need to enforce identical standards or stop pretending the way this forum is governed is anything but biased and unfair.

Quit calling out the mods when I said nothing that violates any rules on pretty much any message board. Admitting I stereotype Kobe fans isn't exactly something you should be crying over. This is getting ridiculous.

[Volcano]

So the scoring leader is below average at his position.... such never before seen precedents can only be set with Mr Bryant. I really truly despise some of the people who make such arguments about him.

Do people think the Lakers would be anything other than 0-12 without Kobe. Replace him with anyone other than Harden and Wade and the team loses its only reliable creator. Do people think Manu could do better than 3-9 with this team? BUTLER?

Unbelievable, some of these posts.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using RealGM Forums mobile app

lmao, "scoring leader"..typical "look at his PPG" argument.

All you care about is volume. Missing the most shots ever isn't something to be proud of. I personally don't mind him taking a ton of shots this season because his team sucks, but that's just what he's doing, taking a LOT of shots. I'm not gonna credit his PPG while he's jacking up the 2nd most shots in his entire career on 49.1 TS%..that's freaking terrible.

yeah, everyone else is deluded when Kobe fans were saying how he was gonna carry them to the playoffs this year. You see the prediction thread in the general board? Lots of angry fans like you..and in the end, your wrong again.

Lakers can't win any games without Kobe, yet they were somehow able to do it last season. omg..mind = blown.

Everyone else sucks while Kobe is the greatest. Doesn't matter if Butler plays elite defense and scores 21 PPG on 62.5 TS% with 3.9 assists to 1.7 TO compared to Kobe's 4 assists and 3 TO. All that doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is PPG and Kobe being the best.