Jimmy Butler vs Klay Thompson vs Kawhi Leonard vs Hayward

[Mykhyn]

Ignoring money etc. Why would you pick which ever player you pick?

[flash22]

Leonard
Thompson
Hayward
Butler

[BullBearBidness]

Tough. I feel like any given day this could be Kawhi/Jimmy/Klay. Hayward doesn't stack up once you go beyond the box score.

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[Coaster80]

Thompson
Hayward
Butler
Leonard

[Laazard]

It's a tough one except for Hayward who doesn't belong here really.

I would go with:

1) Thompson
2) Kawhi
3) Butler (he's basically a little poor man's Leonard)


4) Hayward

[Rob Diaz]

I'd eliminate Hayward from the discussion, since the other 3 will give me similar offense with better defense.

I wouldn't build a team around any of them as a #1 option, but I can't take playoff chokers like Jimmy Butler and Klay Thompson on my team, though, over a Finals MVP that has elevated his game in the playoffs every year.

Thompson has been virtually useless in the playoffs 2 years in a row, it was embarrassing to watch him disappear. Jimmy Butler had a great chance to step up against the Wizards last year, for a Bulls team that desperately needed offense, and he just laid down and got stomped on. Soft players, tbh.

Kawhi, easily.

[The Explorer]

Come on, Leonard is the best player on a championship team, you can't take any of those guys over him.

On another note, Jimmy butler gets to the line a ton each game, has gotten into scuffles with LeBron and Nene, and people call him soft?

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[GYK]

Hayward is the only one who has his team play off of him, but also on a losing team. Hard sell.

[Gus Fring]

Leonard
Thompson
Butler
Hayward

Only guys who have shown to consistently make plays in the playoffs in pressure situations is Leonard and a little bit of Butler. Thompson has been subpar in the playoffs and we don't know about Hayward.


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[GSP]

Jimmy
Kawhi
Klay
Hayward

[East Bay Sports]

Kawhi
Klay
Jimmy

also not sure why Klay is labeled a playoff choker? He has been inconsistent, good games and bad ones, but he has hardly been flat out awful.

[Colbinii]

Tough. I feel like any given day this could be Kawhi/Jimmy/Klay. Hayward doesn't stack up once you go beyond the box score.

Why? Because he doesn't play with the greatest organization in the last 15 years, doesn't have the best defensive coach in the NBA, or doesn't have Steph Curry in the backcourt with him?

How can you say these players have more impact when Hayward has never had the opportunity of playing with a good team since he was just 22. When he did play with teams that were decent, but still never on the level of the other's teams, he put up solid #'s and contributed to winning.

Can you explain to me how he doesn't stack up looking outside the box score, other than his teammates being far worse than the other players.

[BullBearBidness]

Tough. I feel like any given day this could be Kawhi/Jimmy/Klay. Hayward doesn't stack up once you go beyond the box score.

Why? Because he doesn't play with the greatest organization in the last 15 years, doesn't have the best defensive coach in the NBA, or doesn't have Steph Curry in the backcourt with him?

How can you say these players have more impact when Hayward has never had the opportunity of playing with a good team since he was just 22. When he did play with teams that were decent, but still never on the level of the other's teams, he put up solid #'s and contributed to winning.

Can you explain to me how he doesn't stack up looking outside the box score, other than his teammates being far worse than the other players.

I'll admit to only seeing 1.5 games of Hayward this year, and not many in the past. When I watch him play, he seems like a "good" player, don't get me wrong. However, outside of putting up box-score numbers, he's not the kind of guy who makes you feel his impact on the game.

Defensively, he's improved, but he's still closer to being a guy you would prefer to hide on defense, rather than a perimeter defensive asset. Butler and Leonard are (at worst) top 25 defensive assets amongst the entire league. Klay is a guy you would feel comfortable guarding pretty much any wing, and at least doing a decent job.

Offensively, I see Hayward as only a minor help. I don't think he dramatically affects the way a game plays out the way the other three guys do on the regular. Jimmy, for example, can get to the rim almost at will and he has absurd efficiency at the rim and an even more absurd foul-draw percentage. Kawhi is just the prototype super-glue guy. Does whatever the team needs, even though he can do a lot more. Klay's shooting expertise, paired with Curry, makes GSW the toughest team to guard outside of SAS clicking on all cylinders. I see many replacement-level wings who can have similar box-score numbers, given the usage Hayward is afforded.


TL;DR The other three guys have plus (elite in the case of Butler and Kawhi) impact on D, while being less replaceable on offense.

[LarsV8]

Thompson
Hayward
Leonard
Butler

Good selection of roleplayers, but I wouldn't build around any of them. They are complimentary pieces.

[mattg]

Tough. I feel like any given day this could be Kawhi/Jimmy/Klay. Hayward doesn't stack up once you go beyond the box score.

Why? Because he doesn't play with the greatest organization in the last 15 years, doesn't have the best defensive coach in the NBA, or doesn't have Steph Curry in the backcourt with him?

How can you say these players have more impact when Hayward has never had the opportunity of playing with a good team since he was just 22. When he did play with teams that were decent, but still never on the level of the other's teams, he put up solid #'s and contributed to winning.

Can you explain to me how he doesn't stack up looking outside the box score, other than his teammates being far worse than the other players.

I'll admit to only seeing 1.5 games of Hayward this year, and not many in the past. When I watch him play, he seems like a "good" player, don't get me wrong. However, outside of putting up box-score numbers, he's not the kind of guy who makes you feel his impact on the game.

Defensively, he's improved, but he's still closer to being a guy you would prefer to hide on defense, rather than a perimeter defensive asset. Butler and Leonard are (at worst) top 25 defensive assets amongst the entire league. Klay is a guy you would feel comfortable guarding pretty much any wing, and at least doing a decent job.

Offensively, I see Hayward as only a minor help. I don't think he dramatically affects the way a game plays out the way the other three guys do on the regular. Jimmy, for example, can get to the rim almost at will and he has absurd efficiency at the rim and an even more absurd foul-draw percentage. Kawhi is just the prototype super-glue guy. Does whatever the team needs, even though he can do a lot more. Klay's shooting expertise, paired with Curry, makes GSW the toughest team to guard outside of SAS clicking on all cylinders. I see many replacement-level wings who can have similar box-score numbers, given the usage Hayward is afforded.


TL;DR The other three guys have plus (elite in the case of Butler and Kawhi) impact on D, while being less replaceable on offense.

Hayward is the best ball handler and playmaker of this bunch of players. He can legitimately be used a primary creator and ball handler at times, something none of the other players can really boast. They care capable of bringing he ball up court at times and running simple PnR but they don't have Hayward's vision. Hayward also is obviously a big time shooting threat when spotting up.

Ah for defensively, Hayward is definitely above average, not a guy you hide lol. I'm not arguing for Gordon as the best of this crop, but your post is wildly off and you have even admitted to barely ever seeing him play. Hayward's issue is that his team sucks by comparison. Kawhi's or butler's numbers would look like trash if they were asked to be a number 1 option the past 2 years as they developed which makes it dumb to hold that against Hayward. It's much easier to excel in a role like those 2 have where they were just asked to fill in the gaps and play off of the star players on the it teams.

[BullBearBidness]

Why? Because he doesn't play with the greatest organization in the last 15 years, doesn't have the best defensive coach in the NBA, or doesn't have Steph Curry in the backcourt with him?

How can you say these players have more impact when Hayward has never had the opportunity of playing with a good team since he was just 22. When he did play with teams that were decent, but still never on the level of the other's teams, he put up solid #'s and contributed to winning.

Can you explain to me how he doesn't stack up looking outside the box score, other than his teammates being far worse than the other players.

I'll admit to only seeing 1.5 games of Hayward this year, and not many in the past. When I watch him play, he seems like a "good" player, don't get me wrong. However, outside of putting up box-score numbers, he's not the kind of guy who makes you feel his impact on the game.

Defensively, he's improved, but he's still closer to being a guy you would prefer to hide on defense, rather than a perimeter defensive asset. Butler and Leonard are (at worst) top 25 defensive assets amongst the entire league. Klay is a guy you would feel comfortable guarding pretty much any wing, and at least doing a decent job.

Offensively, I see Hayward as only a minor help. I don't think he dramatically affects the way a game plays out the way the other three guys do on the regular. Jimmy, for example, can get to the rim almost at will and he has absurd efficiency at the rim and an even more absurd foul-draw percentage. Kawhi is just the prototype super-glue guy. Does whatever the team needs, even though he can do a lot more. Klay's shooting expertise, paired with Curry, makes GSW the toughest team to guard outside of SAS clicking on all cylinders. I see many replacement-level wings who can have similar box-score numbers, given the usage Hayward is afforded.


TL;DR The other three guys have plus (elite in the case of Butler and Kawhi) impact on D, while being less replaceable on offense.

Hayward is the best ball handler and playmaker of this bunch of players. He can legitimately be used a primary creator and ball handler at times, something none of the other players can really boast. They care capable of bringing he ball up court at times and running simple PnR but they don't have Hayward's vision. Hayward also is obviously a big time shooting threat when spotting up.

Ah for defensively, Hayward is definitely above average, not a guy you hide lol. I'm not arguing for Gordon as the best of this crop, but your post is wildly off and you have even admitted to barely ever seeing him play. Hayward's issue is that his team sucks by comparison. Kawhi's or butler's numbers would look like trash if they were asked to be a number 1 option the past 2 years as they developed which makes it dumb to hold that against Hayward. It's much easier to excel in a role like those 2 have where they were just asked to fill in the gaps and play off of the star players on the it teams.

Dog, Hayward got exposed by Jimmy tonight and everything I said in my post played out for both players. I may not have seen a ton of Hayward, but I usually have a pretty good read on guys after seeing them 2-3 times. Hayward is a solid player, but barely above replacement level.

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[moss_is_1]

Based on this season and taking into account past seasons, I'd say.

Kawhi
Klay
Butler(I expect his current play to drop some)
Hayward

I really like Hayward, but hard to put him over any of those other guys right now.

[mattg]

Dog, Hayward got exposed by Jimmy tonight and everything I said in my post played out for both players. I may not have seen a ton of Hayward, but I usually have a pretty good read on guys after seeing them 2-3 times. Hayward is a solid player, but barely above replacement level.

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Lol one game sample size? The whole point is you don't have a good read on Hayward obviously since he is significantly better than his bad game against Chicago as his stats would indicate. You also still haven't acknowledged the difference between team compositions either, which is HUGE when comparing a bunch of guys who clearly aren't the best players on their teams.

[GANGSTERDOG]

Ummm what about Tobias Harris?


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[NO-KG-AI]

I think they are close enough that it depends on team make up, but generally, I think I'd go Klay, Kawhi, Butler, Hayward.

Would kill to have any of them playing the 3 for the Pels