What versions of KG are better than current Anthony Davis?

Jim Naismith · Post #1 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:01 am

What versions of Kevin Garnett are better than the current Anthony Davis?

Post #2 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:13 am

Still early, and I would like to see how far Davis comes down from his current level of play, but looking just at the toolset, and how well I think he'll finish, I think KG from the early 2000's or so, up through his first year in Boston was better.

Jim Naismith · Post #3 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:23 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:Still early, and I would like to see how far Davis comes down from his current level of play, but looking just at the toolset, and how well I think he'll finish, I think KG from the early 2000's or so, up through his first year in Boston was better.

How about just taking Davis' current season so far as the benchmark for comparison?

If that were the case, I'd say maybe only 2003-05 versions of KG are in the hunt.

GYK · Post #4 » by **GYK** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:25 am

Version that has whole seasons to draw comparison to.
If AD can keep this up he not only has better season then any of KG's but better then EVERYONE BY A HUGE MARGIN, according to PER

Jim Naismith · Post #5 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:35 am

GYK wrote:Version that has whole seasons to draw comparison to.
If AD can keep this up he not only has better season then any of KG's but better then EVERYONE BY A HUGE MARGIN, according to PER

PER is normalized by the league competition. In other words, the player who dominates a weak league could have a much higher PER than the best player in a strong league.

To compare across different years, you're making the assumption that league strength is constant.

HeartBreakKid · Post #6 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:37 am

Hm...I suppose it is up there with KG prime seasons (if it were to last an entire season). Davis isn't really doing anything Garnett didn't do in terms of winning with limited talent. Pelicans seemed prime for a first round bounce if they can even make it, so I'm not sure if Davis is actually impacting the game more than Prime KG. Realistically, AD's PER will most likely come down. Haven't looked at his stats in a while, but I am assuming they're still amazing.

I still say KG, because I actually know what KG is good at and what he could have been better at. With Davis, we don't know what parts of his game are a streak or what is perennial for him yet.

GSP · Post #7 » by **GSP** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:28 am

Id take 00-08 and 12 Kg over current Ad (healthy 09 Kg too but he got hurt obviously)

GYK · Post #8 » by **GYK** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:31 am

Jim Naismith wrote:
GYK wrote:Version that has whole seasons to draw comparison to.
If AD can keep this up he not only has better season then any of KG's but better then EVERYONE BY A HUGE MARGIN, according to PER

PER is normalized by the league competition. In other words, the player who dominates a weak league could have a much higher PER than the best player in a strong league.

To compare across different years, you're making the assumption that league strength is constant.

No one ever uses it like that.
They use it as a determination of the better player regardless of era.
Even then, no era since the merger is superior to another.
I'm sorry Jim if you continue to use PER I'm going to expect AD to be your best season ever..unless your going to say "normalized by league competition Player A PER is higher then Player B" as I never seen that sentence, and doesn't even come up in google search, I doubt you will.

JordansBulls · Post #9 » by **JordansBulls** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:42 am

Have to wait to see.

ardee · Post #10 » by **ardee** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:09 am

IF Davis maintains this production over the entire season it's hard to pick any besides maybe 2003 and 2004 over him.

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Killboard · Post #11 » by **Killboard** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:45 am

Prime KG was a 6'11 point forward. Thats insane. Davis is better protecting the rim and is scoring more this season so far, but KG was one complete all around talent.

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D.Brasco · Post #12 » by **D.Brasco** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:56 pm

Jim Naismith wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:Still early, and I would like to see how far Davis comes down from his current level of play, but looking just at the toolset, and how well I think he'll finish, I think KG from the early 2000's or so, up through his first year in Boston was better.

How about just taking Davis' current season so far as the benchmark for comparison?

If that were the case, I'd say maybe only 2003-05 versions of KG are in the hunt.

The current season as in the 12 games he's played so far?

It's way too early to make a season assesment comapared to KG. I'm sure KG has had some crazy stretches when looking at only a 12 game sample.

-Edit-

KG in the '99-2000 season for example had a 16 game stretch of 24.6 ppg, 12.1 rpg, 5.2 apg, 2.3 bpg.

This was pre-peak KG as well.

Jim Naismith · Post #13 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:57 pm

D.Brasco wrote:KG in the '99-2000 season for example had a 16 game stretch of 24.6 ppg, 12.1 rpg, 5.2 apg, 2.3 bpg.

This was pre-peak KG as well.

Even at his peak, KG could barely shoot over 50% from the field.

G35 · Post #14 » by **G35** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:27 pm

GYK wrote:
Jim Naismith wrote:
GYK wrote:Version that has whole seasons to draw comparison to.
If AD can keep this up he not only has better season then any of KG's but better then EVERYONE BY A HUGE MARGIN, according to PER

PER is normalized by the league competition. In other words, the player who dominates a weak league could have a much higher PER than the best player in a strong league.

To compare across different years, you're making the assumption that league strength is constant.

No one ever uses it like that.
They use it as a determination of the better player regardless of era.
Even then, no era since the merger is superior to another.
I'm sorry Jim if you continue to use PER I'm going to expect AD to be your best season ever..unless your going to say "normalized by league competition Player A PER is higher then Player B" as I never seen that sentence, and doesn't even come up in google search, I doubt you will.

Well I think you are both right. Jim is correct, if you go by the actual interpretation of PER it is a fluctuating measurement based on the strength of the league. 15.0 in 1982 is not the same as 15.0 in 1997 or 2005 (random years I picked).

However GYK is also correct in that you rarely see anyone interpet PER that way when comparing players. They usually take the higher PER in the h2h and the higher number is seen as the "better" player......

I was on the front page of BR and they have the rotating leaders box and it's remarkable how many times AD's name comes up:

3rd in steals
1st in WS
1st in Blocks
7th in rebounds
2nd in Box plus/minus
4th in points
3rd in FG's made

The funny thing is he isn't even playing an outrageous number of minutes. Garnett would regularly play 39-41 mpg to get his 22/12. Davis is only playing 36 mpg. If he played another 3-4 mpg he would be averaging 25/15.......

Post #15 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:37 pm

If it's significant. I think when guys are in the same range with PER, people don't automatically assume one is better than the other, but when there is a significantly huge gap, that means the raw production gap is HUGE, and someone has lots of 'splaining to do if they want to make a case for the other guy.

SDChargers#1 · Post #16 » by **SDChargers#1** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:43 pm

If Davis continues what he is doing for the whole season (which I doubt, I believe he will regress a little), then he is better than any incarnation of KG. Garnett even at his peak (in '04) was only shooting 55% TS. Davis is currently sitting at 63% shooting. I guess an argument can be made for Garnett's defense trumping Davis's scoring/efficiency advantage. But the fact that it is this close and AD is only 21, is absolutely incredible.

WhateverBro · Post #17 » by **WhateverBro** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:42 pm

2014, Davis first 12 games: 26.3 ppg (62.4 TS %), 11.4 (17.2 TRB %), rpg, 1.8 apg, 2.2 spg, 3.5 bpg, 1.3 TOV. 128 ORtg, 98 DRtg.

2004, Garnett 12 game stretch: 27.3 ppg (59.1 TS %), 13.3 rpg (19.4 TRB %), 6 apg, 2 spg, 2.6 bpg, 2.2 TOV. 120 ORtg, 93 DRtg.

Hell, even 2008 KG..

2008, KGs first 12 games of the season: 20.9 ppg (61.1 TS %), 12.7 rpg (20.8 TRB %), 4.2 apg, 2.1 spg, 1.5 bpg, 2.6 TOV. 117 ORtg, 89 DRtg.

Let's wait until after the season with these threads.

Jim Naismith · Post #18 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:00 pm

WhateverBro wrote:2014, Davis first 12 games: 26.3 ppg (62.4 TS %), 11.4 (17.2 TRB %), rpg, 1.8 apg, 2.2 spg, 3.5 bpg, 1.3 TOV. 128 ORtg, 98 DRtg.

2004, Garnett 12 game stretch: 27.3 ppg (59.1 TS %), 13.3 rpg (19.4 TRB %), 6 apg, 2 spg, 2.6 bpg, 2.2 TOV. 120 ORtg, 93 DRtg.

Hell, even 2008 KG..

2008, KGs first 12 games of the season: 20.9 ppg (61.1 TS %), 12.7 rpg (20.8 TRB %), 4.2 apg, 2.1 spg, 1.5 bpg, 2.6 TOV. 117 ORtg, 89 DRtg.

Let's wait until after the season with these threads.

Well 2004 KG and 2008 KG were both the RealGM Player of the Year.

So to be in the conversation, Anthony Davis is in pretty good company.

WhateverBro · Post #19 » by **WhateverBro** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:07 pm

Jim Naismith wrote:
WhateverBro wrote:2014, Davis first 12 games: 26.3 ppg (62.4 TS %), 11.4 (17.2 TRB %), rpg, 1.8 apg, 2.2 spg, 3.5 bpg, 1.3 TOV. 128 ORtg, 98 DRtg.

2004, Garnett 12 game stretch: 27.3 ppg (59.1 TS %), 13.3 rpg (19.4 TRB %), 6 apg, 2 spg, 2.6 bpg, 2.2 TOV. 120 ORtg, 93 DRtg.

Hell, even 2008 KG..

2008, KGs first 12 games of the season: 20.9 ppg (61.1 TS %), 12.7 rpg (20.8 TRB %), 4.2 apg, 2.1 spg, 1.5 bpg, 2.6 TOV. 117 ORtg, 89 DRtg.

Let's wait until after the season with these threads.

Well 2004 KG and 2008 KG were both the RealGM Player of the Year.

So to be in the conversation, Anthony Davis is in pretty good company.

My point was that 12 game stretches can look godly. None of those KG seasons finished with numbers as ridiculous as the 12 game stretch. There's no point in taking someones, by far, best 12 game stretch of his career and compare it to full seasons.

With that said, yes, Anthony Davis is amazing and is quickly becoming one of my favorite players in the league. But I see no point in comparing his 12 game stretch to full seasons by KG, since it doesn't really mean anything.

Jim Naismith · Post #20 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:09 pm

WhateverBro wrote:My point was that 12 game stretches can look godly. None of those KG seasons finished with numbers as ridiculous as the 12 game stretch. There's no point in taking someones, by far, best 12 game stretch of his career and compare it to full seasons.

With that said, yes, Anthony Davis is amazing and is quickly becoming one of my favorite players in the league. But I see no point in comparing his 12 game stretch to full seasons by KG, since it doesn't really mean anything.

Just before Davis' slump during his final 5 games of last season, he had a 13-game stretch averaging 27.0 ppg / 11.7 rpg.

I would say Davis' current streak is not completely unprecedented for him.