Pop vs Phil

Moderators: penbeast0, trex_8063, PaulieWal, Doctor MJ, Clyde Frazier

GYK
General Manager
Posts: 8,869
And1: 2,627
Joined: Oct 08, 2014

Pop vs Phil 

Post#1 » by GYK » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:08 am

Who is the better coach?
HeartBreakKid
RealGM
Posts: 22,395
And1: 18,813
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
     

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#2 » by HeartBreakKid » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:17 am

Popovich. Superior strategist, tactician, and better at developing talent. He's had wild success with vastly different squads, and has won championships without having a superstar.


Not to mention, I think Popovich also beats Phil on what Phil is supposed to be great at. Zen Master is supposed to be great at having big egos co-exist, yet Popovich has kept the Spurs as one big happy family forever now - Popovich seems like a better lockerroom guy to me. Pop puts his players before anyone, Phil himself kinda seems like a troll/prima dona at times.


Popovich is the GOAT, and I don't think anyone has much of an argument against him personally.
User avatar
GSP
RealGM
Posts: 18,292
And1: 14,504
Joined: Dec 12, 2011
     

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#3 » by GSP » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:39 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:Popovich. Superior strategist, tactician, and better at developing talent. He's had wild success with vastly different squads, and has won championships without having a superstar.


Not to mention, I think Popovich also beats Phil on what Phil is supposed to be great at. Zen Master is supposed to be great at having big egos co-exist, yet Popovich has kept the Spurs as one big happy family forever now - Popovich seems like a better lockerroom guy to me. Pop puts his players before anyone, Phil himself kinda seems like a troll/prima dona at times.


Popovich is the GOAT, and I don't think anyone has much of an argument against him personally.

Well Pop plays a part if the players getting to Sa and hes never dealt with egos like Mj, Pip, Kobe, Shaq etc........well actually he did deal with Rodman..........and he failed HORRIBLY.......Phil is absolutely better at managing egos no question about it. Pop goes out of his way to avoid players like that on his team/system ever since Rodman
GYK
General Manager
Posts: 8,869
And1: 2,627
Joined: Oct 08, 2014

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#4 » by GYK » Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:09 am

I don't want to pick sides but there is certainly an argument.
Phil has just as meaning winning seasons. Able to build three dynasties. The winning percentage in his favor in both the RS and PS.
Also don't know why it seems as if Pop didn't have a superstar and great teams throughout his entire tenure. He certainly did.

This is really an argument for consecutive seasons vs three tenures of dominance
Joe Curry
Senior
Posts: 615
And1: 77
Joined: Jun 17, 2001
Location: 1011 Carroll place The Bronx
   

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#5 » by Joe Curry » Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:30 am

Pop's hands down
Dr Pepper
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,949
And1: 338
Joined: Jun 10, 2010

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#6 » by Dr Pepper » Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:09 pm

Pop. He turned San Antonio into a NBA Academy and into the model franchise of pro sports. No one else has embraced foreign talent, player development, minutes management, or the changing landscape (3 point system) quite like Pop; or spawned a coaching/management tree like it either.

Plus I think you can remove his assistants and Pop will still win, whereas you can't properly mention Phil Jackson without Tex Winters

GSP wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:Popovich. Superior strategist, tactician, and better at developing talent. He's had wild success with vastly different squads, and has won championships without having a superstar.


Not to mention, I think Popovich also beats Phil on what Phil is supposed to be great at. Zen Master is supposed to be great at having big egos co-exist, yet Popovich has kept the Spurs as one big happy family forever now - Popovich seems like a better lockerroom guy to me. Pop puts his players before anyone, Phil himself kinda seems like a troll/prima dona at times.


Popovich is the GOAT, and I don't think anyone has much of an argument against him personally.

Well Pop plays a part if the players getting to Sa and hes never dealt with egos like Mj, Pip, Kobe, Shaq etc........well actually he did deal with Rodman..........and he failed HORRIBLY.......Phil is absolutely better at managing egos no question about it. Pop goes out of his way to avoid players like that on his team/system ever since Rodman


Phil's ego management...this is a guy who loves drama like screwing the boss's daughter, Shaq dynasty implosion, drama with the Bulls management, drama with Jerry West, etc. For as much success as Phil brings to the table, he helps burn bridges to the point where the Lakers got rid of nearly everyone associated with his era. Whereas Pop will give you a longer lasting foundation and culture to build upon

I also think Phil played a key role in shaping Kobe's negative tendencies, or at least failed to instill fundamental play and leadership into the high school superstar.

Pop does have a short leash on players (including stars) but still got Sjax a ring, and somewhat of a resurgence before cutting him. I doubt Phil could have meshed David Robinson and Dennis Rodman's personalities.
Kobe vs MJ "Clone Wars" NBA.com video:

Frosty wrote:Funny this is called Clone Wars because Kobe is like the second installment of the Star Wars series. It looked like Star Wars but came up short. But it did appeal to the kiddies.
Mutnt
Veteran
Posts: 2,521
And1: 726
Joined: Dec 06, 2012

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#7 » by Mutnt » Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:17 pm

Nothing Phil did really impressed me. He was winning with some of the most loaded teams in NBA history. Popovich, on the other hand, is a whole different animal.
User avatar
berkkobe7
Senior
Posts: 625
And1: 419
Joined: Jan 29, 2014
     

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#8 » by berkkobe7 » Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:43 pm

This is Pop until Phil make his miracle and Knicks get a championship.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums
AMW27
Pro Prospect
Posts: 913
And1: 243
Joined: Jun 03, 2013

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#9 » by AMW27 » Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:57 pm

Popovich was not the head coach of the Spurs when Rodman was there.

Yes Phil has been blessed to have talented teams with the best player in the game or arguably the best player.

Pop has been blessed also. Had the Spurs not been fortunate to land Duncan in the draft, Popovich's legacy could be the exact opposite today.
Basketballefan
Banned User
Posts: 2,170
And1: 583
Joined: Oct 14, 2013

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#10 » by Basketballefan » Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:16 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:Popovich. Superior strategist, tactician, and better at developing talent. He's had wild success with vastly different squads, and has won championships without having a superstar.


Not to mention, I think Popovich also beats Phil on what Phil is supposed to be great at. Zen Master is supposed to be great at having big egos co-exist, yet Popovich has kept the Spurs as one big happy family forever now - Popovich seems like a better lockerroom guy to me. Pop puts his players before anyone, Phil himself kinda seems like a troll/prima dona at times.


Popovich is the GOAT, and I don't think anyone has much of an argument against him personally.

So Duncan in 99, 03, 05, & 07 wasn't a superstar?
User avatar
Joao Saraiva
RealGM
Posts: 13,007
And1: 5,809
Joined: Feb 09, 2011
   

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#11 » by Joao Saraiva » Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:23 pm

For the last 3 years the Spurs had no top 5 player in the league. And they went to the WCF, NBA finals and won it all in 2014.

Duncan is really old, and the Spurs slow pace offense and great defense days are behind us. But Pop reinvented them, made them an offensive juggernaut and kept winning. That is absolutely stunning.

15 years of greatness without having a new star on his roster. I don't see Phil doing anything equal. Don't get me wrong, Phil was a great coach, but Pop is just too much.
“These guys have been criticized the last few years for not getting to where we’re going, but I’ve always said that the most important thing in sports is to keep trying. Let this be an example of what it means to say it’s never over.” - Jerry Sloan
HeartBreakKid
RealGM
Posts: 22,395
And1: 18,813
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
     

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#12 » by HeartBreakKid » Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:38 pm

Basketballefan wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:Popovich. Superior strategist, tactician, and better at developing talent. He's had wild success with vastly different squads, and has won championships without having a superstar.


Not to mention, I think Popovich also beats Phil on what Phil is supposed to be great at. Zen Master is supposed to be great at having big egos co-exist, yet Popovich has kept the Spurs as one big happy family forever now - Popovich seems like a better lockerroom guy to me. Pop puts his players before anyone, Phil himself kinda seems like a troll/prima dona at times.


Popovich is the GOAT, and I don't think anyone has much of an argument against him personally.

So Duncan in 99, 03, 05, & 07 wasn't a superstar?



I'm aware not everyone here is a professor in English or something, but I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that I said Tim Duncan isn't a superstar.
Basketballefan
Banned User
Posts: 2,170
And1: 583
Joined: Oct 14, 2013

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#13 » by Basketballefan » Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:43 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
Basketballefan wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:Popovich. Superior strategist, tactician, and better at developing talent. He's had wild success with vastly different squads, and has won championships without having a superstar.


Not to mention, I think Popovich also beats Phil on what Phil is supposed to be great at. Zen Master is supposed to be great at having big egos co-exist, yet Popovich has kept the Spurs as one big happy family forever now - Popovich seems like a better lockerroom guy to me. Pop puts his players before anyone, Phil himself kinda seems like a troll/prima dona at times.


Popovich is the GOAT, and I don't think anyone has much of an argument against him personally.

So Duncan in 99, 03, 05, & 07 wasn't a superstar?


I'm aware not everyone here is a professor in English or something, but I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that I said Tim Duncan isn't a superstar.

The only championship Pop won without a superstar was last year's title.
HeartBreakKid
RealGM
Posts: 22,395
And1: 18,813
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
     

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#14 » by HeartBreakKid » Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:45 pm

Basketballefan wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
Basketballefan wrote:So Duncan in 99, 03, 05, & 07 wasn't a superstar?


I'm aware not everyone here is a professor in English or something, but I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that I said Tim Duncan isn't a superstar.

The only championship Pop won without a superstar was last year's title.



That's something Phil Jackson has never done. Not to mention the year before he went to game 7 of the NBA finals.
User avatar
GSP
RealGM
Posts: 18,292
And1: 14,504
Joined: Dec 12, 2011
     

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#15 » by GSP » Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:46 pm

AMW27 wrote:Popovich was not the head coach of the Spurs when Rodman was there.

Yes Phil has been blessed to have talented teams with the best player in the game or arguably the best player.

Pop has been blessed also. Had the Spurs not been fortunate to land Duncan in the draft, Popovich's legacy could be the exact opposite today.

Of course not but he still made it known that he wanted to be the guy that could "tame" Rodman and he failed badly. He wanted nothing of those types of players when he was in charge and i bet Rodman was the biggest reason for that. Rodman STILL to this day **** talks Pop when asked about him, while he praises Phil like a father figure. Pop just doesnt have the same interpersonal skills Phil does when it comes to checking and uniting egos
bballcool34
General Manager
Posts: 8,424
And1: 613
Joined: Mar 13, 2005
   

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#16 » by bballcool34 » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:03 pm

Basketballefan wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:Popovich. Superior strategist, tactician, and better at developing talent. He's had wild success with vastly different squads, and has won championships without having a superstar.


Not to mention, I think Popovich also beats Phil on what Phil is supposed to be great at. Zen Master is supposed to be great at having big egos co-exist, yet Popovich has kept the Spurs as one big happy family forever now - Popovich seems like a better lockerroom guy to me. Pop puts his players before anyone, Phil himself kinda seems like a troll/prima dona at times.


Popovich is the GOAT, and I don't think anyone has much of an argument against him personally.

So Duncan in 99, 03, 05, & 07 wasn't a superstar?


*Has won a championship without a superstar
Damn
Devilzsidewalk
RealGM
Posts: 31,919
And1: 5,943
Joined: Oct 09, 2005

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#17 » by Devilzsidewalk » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:24 pm

maybe it was Phil at one point, but once you start dating the owner's daughter and whoring out your gossipy books, it's hard to sell people on your zen buddhist bull ****
Image
HeartBreakKid
RealGM
Posts: 22,395
And1: 18,813
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
     

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#18 » by HeartBreakKid » Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:15 am

GSP wrote:
AMW27 wrote:Popovich was not the head coach of the Spurs when Rodman was there.

Yes Phil has been blessed to have talented teams with the best player in the game or arguably the best player.

Pop has been blessed also. Had the Spurs not been fortunate to land Duncan in the draft, Popovich's legacy could be the exact opposite today.

Of course not but he still made it known that he wanted to be the guy that could "tame" Rodman and he failed badly. He wanted nothing of those types of players when he was in charge and i bet Rodman was the biggest reason for that. Rodman STILL to this day **** talks Pop when asked about him, while he praises Phil like a father figure. Pop just doesnt have the same interpersonal skills Phil does when it comes to checking and uniting egos


Yet your only example is Dennis Rodman? I think you're on thin water there. Dynasties totally collapsed under Phil Jackson, he's not as great as a mediator as the media makes him to be.
User avatar
GSP
RealGM
Posts: 18,292
And1: 14,504
Joined: Dec 12, 2011
     

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#19 » by GSP » Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:27 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
GSP wrote:
AMW27 wrote:Popovich was not the head coach of the Spurs when Rodman was there.

Yes Phil has been blessed to have talented teams with the best player in the game or arguably the best player.

Pop has been blessed also. Had the Spurs not been fortunate to land Duncan in the draft, Popovich's legacy could be the exact opposite today.

Of course not but he still made it known that he wanted to be the guy that could "tame" Rodman and he failed badly. He wanted nothing of those types of players when he was in charge and i bet Rodman was the biggest reason for that. Rodman STILL to this day **** talks Pop when asked about him, while he praises Phil like a father figure. Pop just doesnt have the same interpersonal skills Phil does when it comes to checking and uniting egos


Yet your only example is Dennis Rodman? I think you're on thin water there. Dynasties totally collapsed under Phil Jackson, he's not as great as a mediator as the media makes him to be.

Its the only example i can think of where both coaches have dealt with the same big ego player.
Players like Admiral, Timmy, Manu, Tony, Kawhi etc. dont have egos.........Timmy proved to be a coachable talent before he ever stepped foot into the Nba, Robinson is well known as one of the most selfless stars ever. Manu was doing his thing internationally w/ bunch of coaches. Tony was arrogant early on and changed over time but he didnt have a big ego. Kawhi is like Derrick Rose etc etc. Pop goes after high character and smart players that can fit into his system for a reason, he doesnt want to deal w/ that
Exodus
Banned User
Posts: 1,349
And1: 571
Joined: Jun 18, 2014

Re: Pop vs Phil 

Post#20 » by Exodus » Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:02 am

Pop has had multiple HOFs his whole career with the Spurs well since 99-2014.

I"ll take Phil. Phil has led his teams back to back multiple times where Pops teams seem to fade off from winning a ring. Phil knew earlier than Pop how to manage his team, getting them peaking @ playoffs.

Phil mother f'n Jackson >

Return to Player Comparisons