RealGM Top 100 List #61

[trex_8063]

Hmm, see I'm not sure about that. I think Hill was a very respectable defender thru most of his career (and versatile, too: able to guard 1 thru 3). He received a few All-D votes even during his role years in PHX. Note also his DRAPM every year he played significant games:
'98: +1.90
'99: +1.38
'00: +0.10
'05: +0.3
'07: -0.5
'08: +1.06
'09: +0.94
'10: +0.54
'11: +0.03
'12: -0.05

Also +1.33 in '97 (that may've been his best overall season - it's either '97 or '00 - I'd lean slightly towards '97).

I didn't know there was RAPM data available for the '97 season. Linky?

[Quotatious]

I didn't know there was RAPM data available for the '97 season. Linky?

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1277479

[ceiling raiser]

pen (or anyone else) - How do you feel about Daniels vs McAdoo?

[penbeast0]

McAdoo was the better player but I'd take Daniels for actual career. The drugs, the playing out of position, the locker room issues, all hurt McAdoo's legacy whereas Daniels was not only the best center (in a clearly inferior league though) but the 2 MVPs and 3 rings show a team impact beyond that of McAdoo who never had much team success as a star.

[RayBan-Sematra]

VOTE : Dominique

Great scorer and solid rebounder.
Had eight seasons where he scored 2k+ points. Only a handful have bettered that.
Top 10 in MVP voting a couple times.
Top 2 in scoring in 5 seasons.

Yeah I feel pretty comfortable putting Nique at this spot.

[Owly]

McAdoo was the better player but I'd take Daniels for actual career. The drugs, the playing out of position, the locker room issues, all hurt McAdoo's legacy whereas Daniels was not only the best center (in a clearly inferior league though) but the 2 MVPs and 3 rings show a team impact beyond that of McAdoo who never had much team success as a star.

Is drugs a documented issue for McAdoo? It wouldn't be a huge surprise what with era, lapse in productivity etc but I think I've only heard it (alluded to) by you before? Not saying you're wrong, just wondering if you're sure, if there's a source etc

[penbeast0]

My mistake, I think I was confusing his issues (injuries and poor fits) with those of teammate Spencer Haywood. I don't see any reports of McAdoo and drugs . . . it's one of those things that is almost a 70s stereotype, production crash + traded around league after superstar number. I would like to apologize to McAdoo and his family and fans.

[trex_8063]

Thru post #27, nearing 48-hr mark:

Sidney Moncrief (1) - penbeast0

Paul Arizin (1) - Quotatious

Dominique Wilkins (6) - trex_8063, tsherkin, Joao Saraiva, JordansBulls, Moonbeam, RayBan-Sematra

Grant Hill (1) - SactoKingsFan

Nate Thurmond (1) - ronnymac2

Looks like we actually get to skip a run-off for this spot.

[Clyde Frazier]

Vote for #61 - Dominique Wilkins

Definitely had some indecision here due to his playoff shortcomings, but nique had an impressive 9 year stretch nonetheless from 85-94:

28 PPG, 7 RPG, 2.9 APG, 1.4 SPG, .6 BPG

46.4% FG, 31.4% 3PT, 82.5% FT, 54.1% TS

113/108 OFF/DEF RTG, .168 WS/48

He was absolutely devastating at the rim in his prime, and it would be awesome to have some shot charts on this guy. He was almost like a carter / kemp hybrid as far as his ability to finish plays in ways you’d never seen before. While it’s not the definitive way to evaluate someone’s playoff career, I looked at the SRS rank for nique’s team vs. team that eliminated him:

83 - 16 / 2
84 - 14 / 2 (NBA Champion Celtics)
86 - 4 / 1 (NBA Champion Celtics)
87 - 2 / 6
88 - 4 / 1
89 - 5 / 6
91 - 13 / 9
93 - 16 /4 (NBA Champion Bulls)

He was on some decent teams in his prime, but outside of 86, always lost to the better or ~equal team, which included 3 eventual NBA champs.

I also really respect his ability to come back from a major injury and still produce at a high level. The amount of determination that takes is huge, especially since it was later in his career.