What is Curry's ceiling on the all time list?

[day1086]

Posting up? Slashing? I wouldn't call him elite at all in those areas. He's got great handles and a near immaculate outside shot, but all around skillwise he's just not the scorer or the offensive player that guys like Jordan/Lebron/Bird/Kobe were. Calling him the best offensive player ever is hyperbole.

Best offensive player ever? nobody said that.

Most skilled offensive player ever? I'll say that.

Lack of post-up game is not a knock on his skill, it's a knock on his body.

Physical prowess and harnessing your physicality is certainly something of a skill, so that's kind of a copout. There are other point guards who are excellent low post players e.g. Westbrook and Paul.

I'm not seeing the justification for calling him the most skilled offensive player. What makes him more skilled than (I'll pick an obvious one) Michael Jordan? Jordan was an elite ballhandler, elite outside shooter (20' and in), an elite low post scorer, and an elite slasher.

Better shooter, better handles, better floaters, more ambidextrous, craftier.

I'll give you something Kobe said earlier this season

How many people think you have to have a lot of moves? I have two. On the perimeter, I have two moves. On the post, two moves. That's it. On the perimeter, I'll go right, pull up, shoot; left, pull up, shoot. In the post, turn left shoulder, fadeaway; turn right, fadeaway

I was just talking to Nick Young. To be unstoppable, you have to first be predictable

This is a logic that only someone with the size and athleticism of players like Kobe/MJ can follow. They don't need every trick in the book because their primary move can't be stopped as they have the size and athleticism to always be able to get it off. Not to say they aren't immensely skilled and can't make miraculous creative finishes and etc, but Curry has to have those creative finishes every play in order to survive in the NBA

Curry being more skilled at so many things doesn't make him greater than MJ, because MJ doesn't need all of those skills to be even better than curry. Curry isn't going to take one dribble and sky over you for the dunk. He's not gonna elevate 48 inches so he has time to fake a dunk with his right hand and lay it in with the left. He's not gonna take off from half court and stretch his arm out 40 feet so that he can finish the dunk despite being weighed down by several massive aliens. But the limiting factor in being unable to do those things is not his skill.

[oaktownwarriors87]

lmao, wut?

What exactly is flat out wrong about acknowledging that a lot of the top 20-30 guys were making all star games in their early 20's, and Curry didn't?

Jordan, and Lebron both had been to a ton of all star games, and won MVP's by their mid 20's. No need to get so defensive, lol.

He was 25 on his first All-Star Game. Stockton was 26. Nash was 27. Payton was 25. Frazier was 24. Who cares?

You're wrong because no one cares about All-Star appearances. Winning matter, not a popularity contest.

You sound like a big time homer if you can't even acknowledge this is a factor in players legacies. Not getting to all star level play till mid twenties is a factor. Yes some other players got off to late starts too. Whoop-dee-doo....

I'm not being a homer, it's common knowledge. That's why you have never really see anybody on the comparison board talk about how young a player was when he made an all-star team. It's a popularity contest, which is why Jeremy Lin got 5x as many votes as Curry.

It's all about the wins, no one cares about All-Star appearances.

[Hendrix]

He was 25 on his first All-Star Game. Stockton was 26. Nash was 27. Payton was 25. Frazier was 24. Who cares?

You're wrong because no one cares about All-Star appearances. Winning matter, not a popularity contest.

You sound like a big time homer if you can't even acknowledge this is a factor in players legacies. Not getting to all star level play till mid twenties is a factor. Yes some other players got off to late starts too. Whoop-dee-doo....

It's not being a homer, it's common knowledge. That's why you have never really see anybody on the comparison board talk about how young a player was when he made an all-star team. It's all about the wins.

Look, it matters when a player starts hitting their peak. Period. There is a difference between someone like KG that played at an elite level since a 20 year old, in comparison to someone like Nash, who started late. KG had an MVP + 7 all star appearances + lots of "all NBA" awards, by the time Nash even booked his first trip to the all star game.

Having more years at your peak is good.

Having less years at your peak is not as good.

Pretty simple. It is not the only factor. But, longevity at peak, is a factor. What Curry has accomplished up till the age of 24 is nothing special if you compare it to the top 30 guys. He's playing fantastic, MVP like ball right now. But, if we are talking about legacy, it matters that he's 26 and only tallied 1x 2nd team All NBA, 1x all star game appearance, and 1 playoff series win. He has some work to do if he wants to move up those all-time boards.

[DavidSterned]

Craftier than Jordan? No way. Jordan could create space for himself like no other and had an amazing ball-fake.

Better shooter is a debatable metric, Jordan's career FG% is certainly higher but Curry is clearly the better three point threat and a better FT shooter.

Curry probably has slightly better handles than Jordan (slightly higher assist to turnover ratio as well).

Floater is a pet shot of Curry's, like fadeaways were a pet shot for Jordan. Not sure how much skill can be ascertained from either. Jordan had a wide arsenal though, in case you weren't aware.

Jordan is clearly a more skilled scorer in the low post, is better at cutting to the basket (better first step), and is a far better finisher.

All in all, not sure I would agree with your assessment that Curry is the more skilled offensive player or is more skilled in a multitude of different areas. Besides three point shooting and ballhandling, I think I would give all other offensive categories to Jordan.

[picc]

Posting up? Slashing? I wouldn't call him elite at all in those areas. He's got great handles and a near immaculate outside shot, but all around skillwise he's just not the scorer or the offensive player that guys like Jordan/Lebron/Bird/Kobe were. Calling him the best offensive player ever is hyperbole.

I didn't say any of that.

[DavidSterned]

Posting up? Slashing? I wouldn't call him elite at all in those areas. He's got great handles and a near immaculate outside shot, but all around skillwise he's just not the scorer or the offensive player that guys like Jordan/Lebron/Bird/Kobe were. Calling him the best offensive player ever is hyperbole.

I didn't say any of that.

"Most skilled" certainly implies it.

I think the most skilled guys generally have the most success.

[Joao Saraiva]

Posting up? Slashing? I wouldn't call him elite at all in those areas. He's got great handles and a near immaculate outside shot, but all around skillwise he's just not the scorer or the offensive player that guys like Jordan/Lebron/Bird/Kobe were. Calling him the best offensive player ever is hyperbole.

I didn't say any of that.

"Most skilled" certainly implies it.

I think the most skilled guys generally have the most success.

That's false. Shaquille O'Neal didn't have the skill of Hakeem, But he used well his body and profited a lot from his power near the basket. Nothing wrong with being physical, but the game is not entirely based on skill.

I actually am not so sure Shaq > Hakeem but you get the point.

[MrKnox]

Best offensive player ever? nobody said that.

Most skilled offensive player ever? I'll say that.

Lack of post-up game is not a knock on his skill, it's a knock on his body.

Physical prowess and harnessing your physicality is certainly something of a skill, so that's kind of a copout. There are other point guards who are excellent low post players e.g. Westbrook and Paul.

I'm not seeing the justification for calling him the most skilled offensive player. What makes him more skilled than (I'll pick an obvious one) Michael Jordan? Jordan was an elite ballhandler, elite outside shooter (20' and in), an elite low post scorer, and an elite slasher.

Better shooter, better handles, better floaters, more ambidextrous, craftier.

I'll give you something Kobe said earlier this season

How many people think you have to have a lot of moves? I have two. On the perimeter, I have two moves. On the post, two moves. That's it. On the perimeter, I'll go right, pull up, shoot; left, pull up, shoot. In the post, turn left shoulder, fadeaway; turn right, fadeaway

I was just talking to Nick Young. To be unstoppable, you have to first be predictable

This is a logic that only someone with the size and athleticism of players like Kobe/MJ can follow. They don't need every trick in the book because their primary move can't be stopped as they have the size and athleticism to always be able to get it off. Not to say they aren't immensely skilled and can't make miraculous creative finishes and etc, but Curry has to have those creative finishes every play in order to survive in the NBA

Curry being more skilled at so many things doesn't make him greater than MJ, because MJ doesn't need all of those skills to be even better than curry. Curry isn't going to take one dribble and sky over you for the dunk. He's not gonna elevate 48 inches so he has time to fake a dunk with his right hand and lay it in with the left. He's not gonna take off from half court and stretch his arm out 40 feet so that he can finish the dunk despite being weighed down by several massive aliens. But the limiting factor in being unable to do those things is not his skill.

Curry is a better three point shooter. Jordan is better anywhere inside the line. No way Curry is a better ball handler than Jordan and no way in hell is he "more ambidextrous or craftier". Jordan scored 51 points in a game at age 38 and 40+ points when he was 40 years old and way past his athletic prime. How's that for crafty? In comparison, the last time Kobe scored 50+ points in a game was when he was 30. Curry is a great young player but the hyperbole on this thread is sickening.

[day1086]

Physical prowess and harnessing your physicality is certainly something of a skill, so that's kind of a copout. There are other point guards who are excellent low post players e.g. Westbrook and Paul.

I'm not seeing the justification for calling him the most skilled offensive player. What makes him more skilled than (I'll pick an obvious one) Michael Jordan? Jordan was an elite ballhandler, elite outside shooter (20' and in), an elite low post scorer, and an elite slasher.

Better shooter, better handles, better floaters, more ambidextrous, craftier.

I'll give you something Kobe said earlier this season

How many people think you have to have a lot of moves? I have two. On the perimeter, I have two moves. On the post, two moves. That's it. On the perimeter, I'll go right, pull up, shoot; left, pull up, shoot. In the post, turn left shoulder, fadeaway; turn right, fadeaway

I was just talking to Nick Young. To be unstoppable, you have to first be predictable

This is a logic that only someone with the size and athleticism of players like Kobe/MJ can follow. They don't need every trick in the book because their primary move can't be stopped as they have the size and athleticism to always be able to get it off. Not to say they aren't immensely skilled and can't make miraculous creative finishes and etc, but Curry has to have those creative finishes every play in order to survive in the NBA

Curry being more skilled at so many things doesn't make him greater than MJ, because MJ doesn't need all of those skills to be even better than curry. Curry isn't going to take one dribble and sky over you for the dunk. He's not gonna elevate 48 inches so he has time to fake a dunk with his right hand and lay it in with the left. He's not gonna take off from half court and stretch his arm out 40 feet so that he can finish the dunk despite being weighed down by several massive aliens. But the limiting factor in being unable to do those things is not his skill.

Curry is a better three point shooter. Jordan is better anywhere inside the line. No way Curry is a better ball handler than Jordan and no way in hell is he "more ambidextrous or craftier". Jordan scored 51 points in a game at age 38 and 40+ points when he was 40 years old and way past his athletic prime. How's that for crafty? In comparison, the last time Kobe scored 50+ points in a game was when he was 30. Curry is a great young player but the hyperbole on this thread is sickening.

Man you're crazy to think Jordan has better handles than any of the great point guards today.

He's a 6'6" strong, athletic anomaly with incredible dexterity, speed, and coordination. He's the greatest basketball player of all time.

Doesn't mean you have to act like it's blasphemous to say someone is more skilled than him. Curry being a better ballhandler is as plainly obvious as curry being a better three point shooter. Jordan's moves consisted predominantly of 1 or 2 quick dribbles into a strong move to the basket or pull-up. He had basic crossovers which were very effective due to his speed and could occasionally make a flashy behind the back etc. He's not going to flat out dance on people with creative moves like Curry does every game.

Jordan's explosion and first step off of crossovers are incredible. His actual ball handling? nah

Does Lebron also have better handles?

[MrKnox]

Better shooter, better handles, better floaters, more ambidextrous, craftier.

I'll give you something Kobe said earlier this season



This is a logic that only someone with the size and athleticism of players like Kobe/MJ can follow. They don't need every trick in the book because their primary move can't be stopped as they have the size and athleticism to always be able to get it off. Not to say they aren't immensely skilled and can't make miraculous creative finishes and etc, but Curry has to have those creative finishes every play in order to survive in the NBA

Curry being more skilled at so many things doesn't make him greater than MJ, because MJ doesn't need all of those skills to be even better than curry. Curry isn't going to take one dribble and sky over you for the dunk. He's not gonna elevate 48 inches so he has time to fake a dunk with his right hand and lay it in with the left. He's not gonna take off from half court and stretch his arm out 40 feet so that he can finish the dunk despite being weighed down by several massive aliens. But the limiting factor in being unable to do those things is not his skill.

Curry is a better three point shooter. Jordan is better anywhere inside the line. No way Curry is a better ball handler than Jordan and no way in hell is he "more ambidextrous or craftier". Jordan scored 51 points in a game at age 38 and 40+ points when he was 40 years old and way past his athletic prime. How's that for crafty? In comparison, the last time Kobe scored 50+ points in a game was when he was 30. Curry is a great young player but the hyperbole on this thread is sickening.

Man you're crazy to think Jordan has better handles than any of the great point guards today.

He's a 6'6" strong, athletic anomaly with incredible dexterity, speed, and coordination. He's the greatest basketball player of all time.

Doesn't mean you have to act like it's blasphemous to say someone is more skilled than him. Curry being a better ballhandler is as plainly obvious as curry being a better three point shooter. Jordan's moves consisted predominantly of 1 or 2 quick dribbles into a strong move to the basket or pull-up. He had basic crossovers which were very effective due to his speed and could occasionally make a flashy behind the back etc. He's not going to flat out dance on people with creative moves like Curry does every game.

Jordan's explosion and first step off of crossovers are incredible. His actual ball handling? nah

Does Lebron also have better handles?

Kobe, Nash, Garnett, Ray Allen etc were in the league when Jordan was winning titles. Jordan played against Duncan, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce etc. Jordan's last game took place six months before Lebron, Wade and Carmelo played their first but for some reason youngsters seem to think they played in completely different eras? But yeah, you're right. Jordan retired in 2003 and all of a sudden ball handling skills went through the roof and Jordan would be outclassed today by guys who couldn't even carry his jock. LOL.

[day1086]

Curry is a better three point shooter. Jordan is better anywhere inside the line. No way Curry is a better ball handler than Jordan and no way in hell is he "more ambidextrous or craftier". Jordan scored 51 points in a game at age 38 and 40+ points when he was 40 years old and way past his athletic prime. How's that for crafty? In comparison, the last time Kobe scored 50+ points in a game was when he was 30. Curry is a great young player but the hyperbole on this thread is sickening.

Man you're crazy to think Jordan has better handles than any of the great point guards today.

He's a 6'6" strong, athletic anomaly with incredible dexterity, speed, and coordination. He's the greatest basketball player of all time.

Doesn't mean you have to act like it's blasphemous to say someone is more skilled than him. Curry being a better ballhandler is as plainly obvious as curry being a better three point shooter. Jordan's moves consisted predominantly of 1 or 2 quick dribbles into a strong move to the basket or pull-up. He had basic crossovers which were very effective due to his speed and could occasionally make a flashy behind the back etc. He's not going to flat out dance on people with creative moves like Curry does every game.

Jordan's explosion and first step off of crossovers are incredible. His actual ball handling? nah

Does Lebron also have better handles?

Kobe, Nash, Garnett, Ray Allen etc were in the league when Jordan was winning titles. Jordan played against Duncan, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce etc. Jordan's last game took place six months before Lebron, Wade and Carmelo played their first but for some reason youngsters seem to think they played in completely different eras? But yeah, you're right. Jordan retired in 2003 and all of a sudden ball handling skills went through the roof and Jordan would be outclassed today by guys who couldn't even carry his jock. LOL.

??? Who said anything about Jordan being good for era? A better assessment would be saying that Jordan was a great ballhandler for his position.

Do you think Lebron has better handles than Curry (or paul, kyrie, etc)?

I think you're having trouble separating success and specific skills

[DavidSterned]

I didn't say any of that.

"Most skilled" certainly implies it.

I think the most skilled guys generally have the most success.

That's false. Shaquille O'Neal didn't have the skill of Hakeem, But he used well his body and profited a lot from his power near the basket. Nothing wrong with being physical, but the game is not entirely based on skill.

I actually am not so sure Shaq > Hakeem but you get the point.

"I think the most skilled guys generally have the most success."

[Joao Saraiva]

"Most skilled" certainly implies it.

I think the most skilled guys generally have the most success.

That's false. Shaquille O'Neal didn't have the skill of Hakeem, But he used well his body and profited a lot from his power near the basket. Nothing wrong with being physical, but the game is not entirely based on skill.

I actually am not so sure Shaq > Hakeem but you get the point.

"I think the most skilled guys generally have the most success."

It helps for sure. There won't be a top 10 player that wasn't skilled.

But we've seen skilled guys not having that much success. It's a combination of hard work, skill, basketball IQ, playing on the right teams and even a bit of luck.

[Joao Saraiva]

Man you're crazy to think Jordan has better handles than any of the great point guards today.

He's a 6'6" strong, athletic anomaly with incredible dexterity, speed, and coordination. He's the greatest basketball player of all time.

Doesn't mean you have to act like it's blasphemous to say someone is more skilled than him. Curry being a better ballhandler is as plainly obvious as curry being a better three point shooter. Jordan's moves consisted predominantly of 1 or 2 quick dribbles into a strong move to the basket or pull-up. He had basic crossovers which were very effective due to his speed and could occasionally make a flashy behind the back etc. He's not going to flat out dance on people with creative moves like Curry does every game.

Jordan's explosion and first step off of crossovers are incredible. His actual ball handling? nah

Does Lebron also have better handles?

Kobe, Nash, Garnett, Ray Allen etc were in the league when Jordan was winning titles. Jordan played against Duncan, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce etc. Jordan's last game took place six months before Lebron, Wade and Carmelo played their first but for some reason youngsters seem to think they played in completely different eras? But yeah, you're right. Jordan retired in 2003 and all of a sudden ball handling skills went through the roof and Jordan would be outclassed today by guys who couldn't even carry his jock. LOL.

??? Who said anything about Jordan being good for era? A better assessment would be saying that Jordan was a great ballhandler for his position.

Do you think Lebron has better handles than Curry (or paul, kyrie, etc)?

I think you're having trouble separating success and specific skills

Curry has better handles than MJ, Chris Paul has better handles than James, etc.

There is no doubt about that if you watch them play.

MJ and LeBron have a ton of atlethic tools, so they actually don't need those kind of handles. Curry can't play the same way MJ or LeBron do, so he has to rely on other weapons. The fact that Curry has better handles than MJ doesn't mean he's even in the same ball park as a player. These are two completely diferent things.

[KyletheDingbat]

Curry is NOT more skilled than CP3. Curry's handles are not nearly as tight and precise, therefor not as good, resulting in many more turnovers. CP3 is better at creating space off the bounce, he's better at every facet of passing from shear ability to court vision. Curry isn't an appreciatively better shooter from anywhere except the 3 point line. And CP has a very skilled post game.

Though I gotta say Curry is one of the most skilled players I've ever seen, and is probably top 10.

[KyletheDingbat]

As far as the topic though, I think Curry has potential to have a near GOAT playoff peak. There's a good chance he'll go supernova some year and blaze his way to a title in spectacular fashion.

[day1086]

Curry is NOT more skilled than CP3. Curry's handles are not nearly as tight and precise, therefor not as good, resulting in many more turnovers. CP3 is better at creating space off the bounce, he's better at every facet of passing from shear ability to court vision. Curry isn't an appreciatively better shooter from anywhere except the 3 point line. And CP has a very skilled post game.

Though I gotta say Curry is one of the most skilled players I've ever seen, and is probably top 10.

In today's NBA I think that cp3 and curry are probably the 2 most skilled players.

I'm much more of a curry fan so I think he's more skilled, but paul is one player I won't argue too much even though I do dislike him.

The skill required to be a superstar in the NBA at that size is absolutely incredible. Especially as a scorer.

[oaktownwarriors87]

You sound like a big time homer if you can't even acknowledge this is a factor in players legacies. Not getting to all star level play till mid twenties is a factor. Yes some other players got off to late starts too. Whoop-dee-doo....

It's not being a homer, it's common knowledge. That's why you have never really see anybody on the comparison board talk about how young a player was when he made an all-star team. It's all about the wins.

Look, it matters when a player starts hitting their peak. Period. There is a difference between someone like KG that played at an elite level since a 20 year old, in comparison to someone like Nash, who started late. KG had an MVP + 7 all star appearances + lots of "all NBA" awards, by the time Nash even booked his first trip to the all star game.

Having more years at your peak is good.

Having less years at your peak is not as good.

Pretty simple. It is not the only factor. But, longevity at peak, is a factor. What Curry has accomplished up till the age of 24 is nothing special if you compare it to the top 30 guys. He's playing fantastic, MVP like ball right now. But, if we are talking about legacy, it matters that he's 26 and only tallied 1x 2nd team All NBA, 1x all star game appearance, and 1 playoff series win. He has some work to do if he wants to move up those all-time boards.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

No one cares that KG averaged 17/8 on a 40 win team and made the all star team. He wasn't even close to paying at an elite level, it was just a weak year at that position, which further proves that allstar games is an idiotic way to measure success.

Leading your team to wins matters. Winning a popularity contest by default doesn't.

[Dcebucks11]

top 10 in the fun category. Love watching him play.

[Regulio]

I don't understand the definition of "most skilled" you use here.
What is it? He is elite shooter. This is one area he is better than let's say Jordan or some other elite scorers.
Also I don't get it why I should care about "most skilled". Does it translate to anything ? Why does it matter if let's say Shaq had a couple of moves in the post and destroyed everyone ? It's flashy, I get it. Don't understand why it should matter in player comparison. It's not beauty contest.

I am not sure he is/will be better than KJ, CP3 or Nash. There are at least 5 more PGs he is not better than. If he keeps playing like that for more years, he is in the fringes of Top 10 of PGs. Multiply by number of positions x 5, and you get ~top 50. His scoring is nice, but he doesn't break your defense like let's say Shaq or MJ, where you have to double-triple team them constantly. As a scorer he is elite, but not elite of elites. And this is his main strength.
Another example is Dirk. He is a Top ~15-25 player, he was playing better than Curry for 10+ years. So you can imagine how hard it is to climb into Top 25 or so.