Current John Wall vs Prime Gilbert Arenas

justinian · Post #1 » by **justinian** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:00 am

Who would you rather have? and who is better?

Illmatic12 · Post #2 » by **Illmatic12** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:25 am

Gilbert. He was slightly worse than current Harden (JH is bigger and better rebounder). If prime Arenas was playing today:

Curry
Harden
Arenas
Paul
Westbrook

would be the top 5 guards in the league. And currently Wall is slightly on the outside of that ^ list looking in

Post #3 » by **Quotatious** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:32 pm

Arenas for me, as well. I greatly enjoyed watching him play in his best seasons ('06 and '07), and I think that some one of the criticism he gets for supposedly being a "stupid", "selfish" player and a "chucker" is inaccurate, and a result of his subsequent antics.

Look at that, and tell me with a straight face that you're not impressed...

http://bkref.com/tiny/QhJci" target="_blank" target="_blank

I know it's cherry-picking, but it puts him in a really elite company.

I really like Wall, as well, and he's certainly a much better defender and pure point guard/facilitator than Arenas, but Gil was an elite combination of volume scoring and playmaking, just an extremely potent offensive weapon in his prime. It's pretty close, but I'd take Arenas (Agent Zero has a pretty clear edge in terms of advanced metrics, too).

Post #4 » by **nate33** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:13 pm

Peak Gilbert Arenas was extremely fun to watch, but he was always hot and cold. He gave the team a chance to beat anybody on any given night, but when he was off, it was a pretty sure bet that they were going to lose. His team peaked at 45 wins in a relatively weak East despite having Jamison, Butler and an underrated Brendan Haywood.

Having watched them both play a ton, I have to say I prefer John Wall. People who haven't seen much of Wall this year really don't know what they are missing. Wall is a basketball savant. He is so smart with the way he sets up his passes. And he's finally becoming a pretty respectable midrange shooter, which is opening things up. But the bottom line is that Wall's success is based on passing and defense, skills he brings to the table every single game. He is so much more consistent than the hot and cold Arenas, and that's what clinches it for me.

MMyhre · Post #5 » by **MMyhre** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:22 pm

I would take Agent Zero all day if my team lacked scoring and had some playmaking, and Wall if my team lacked defense/playmaking. We haven't seen the best of Wall yet, I would say Gilbert is better AT HIS PEAK so far.

asindc · Post #6 » by **asindc** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:52 pm

Arenas. At his peak, he was in the small group of players that were virtually unguardable.

Shanghai Kid · Post #7 » by **Shanghai Kid** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:53 am

I feel like I've also seen most of the games from both players. To Nate's point, Wall is more consistent game to game. But, in the playoffs, I would want Arenas. Also, a lot depends on what kind of team you have. Wall and Arenas brings two absolutely different games to a team. Gilbert's impact was a LITTLE bit more going by the advanced stats, but Wall as a playmaker really is elite.

Shanghai Kid · Post #8 » by **Shanghai Kid** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:56 am

Quotatious wrote:Arenas for me, as well. I greatly enjoyed watching him play in his best seasons ('06 and '07), and I think that some one of the criticism he gets for supposedly being a "stupid", "selfish" player and a "chucker" is inaccurate, and a result of his subsequent antics.

Look at that, and tell me with a straight face that you're not impressed...

http://bkref.com/tiny/QhJci" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

I know it's cherry-picking, but it puts him in a really elite company.

I really like Wall, as well, and he's certainly a much better defender and pure point guard/facilitator than Arenas, but Gil was an elite combination of volume scoring and playmaking, just an extremely potent offensive weapon in his prime. It's pretty close, but I'd take Arenas (Agent Zero has a pretty clear edge in terms of advanced metrics, too).

Arenas's advanced states really serve his credibility well. I was surprised at his win shares, as an offensive player it seems he peaked higher than most players.

One thing to remember about Gilbert's "mindset" and "chucking" is that he was still really young when he hurt his knee, 25 years old. So everything Gilbert did was from a 23-25 year old who probably had not entered his prime yet. I have to believe his game would have matured.

Shanghai Kid · Post #9 » by **Shanghai Kid** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:59 am

nate33 wrote:Peak Gilbert Arenas was extremely fun to watch, but he was always hot and cold. He gave the team a chance to beat anybody on any given night, but when he was off, it was a pretty sure bet that they were going to lose. His team peaked at 45 wins in a relatively weak East despite having Jamison, Butler and an underrated Brendan Haywood.

There is a solid chance they would have won 50 games in 05 if Hughes doesn't go down, and in 07 if Jamison doesn't get hurt and then Butler/Arenas didn't miss the end of the season. It also seems simplistic to ignore that the Wizards were a horrible defensive team. Arenas to his credit led a top five offensive team that was poorly coached and had bad defense.

Jimmy Recard · Post #10 » by **Jimmy Recard** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:03 am

Over a full season i want Wall, without question. Outside of scoring, he trumps Gilbert in every other facet of the game. And you're comparing a pass first PG to gunner who, while an incredible scorer, is going to take a bunch of bad shots each game which make you shake your head.

When it comes to scoring though, Gilbert is light years ahead. He's not just a better shooter either; he a much better finisher at the rim when being challenged along with the ability to get to the FT line, where he was Harden-esque. The biggest criticism of Wall (at least mine) is that he doesn't get to the line nearly enough for a guy with his ability. Part of this is because he's a drive and kick type of pg when he gets in the paint, part of it is him just not being aggressive or assertive enough. You didn't have to worry about Gilbert in that department. He drove to score every time, or at least gete to the line, like all great scorers do.

Like others have said though, while i'd take Wall over a season, i'm inclined to take Gilbert in a playoff series, or at least in a big games (especially going up against a superior squad) purely because he had that superstar ability in terms of being able to take over games and drop 40+ points on any given night. He was a scoring machine before he got injured.

And let's not even talk about these two when it comes to perfoming in the clutch.

In a way, it's similar to the Wall vs Kyrie debates. It really depends on what you value in PG play. What makes Wall special is his all round game. He can dominate a game with 10 shots. But he'll never be the scorer that Kyrie is or Gilbert was.

Brenice · Post #11 » by **Brenice** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:56 am

Gilbert and he is being underrated here. His was just as consistent as Wall. He was a much better 4th quarter closer and playoff performer than Wall. Wall has way more talent surrounding him.

Silvie Lysandra · Post #12 » by **Silvie Lysandra** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:27 pm

Gilbert. As great as Wall is, Gilbert was a player who could outduel prime Kobe and prime LeBron offensively and while he was rather streaky, that team was badly constructed and badly coached.

Gilbert Arenas was on a Hall of Fame pace before the injury and Gungate; remember he was averaging nearly 30 ppg at like 24 on 56-58% TS.

I think Wall will eventually reach or even surpass peak Gilbert's impact, but now? No way.