Rudy Gobert or Nerlens Noel

[Laimbeer]

Which player would you take for a career?

[BBgun]

At this point I'm inclined to say Rudy. I just think he has a higher ceiling and is already developing at a rapid pace, far quicker than Utah could have expected.

[Doctor MJ]

Gobert. Seems to be THE exciting young breakout story of the year. While he's older, I don't see any particular reason to see him as more experienced than Noel. He's ahead of Noel due to some combination of superior physical talent and superior IQ, and this could well result in the gap getting a lot wider.

What I will say is that a la AD, I could see Gobert splitting his focus more between offense and defense once he really gets going, and thus Noel - who doesn't seem to have any offensive game - might end up the superior impactor on defense alone as a specialist.

[WhateverBro]

Gobert. Seems to be THE exciting young breakout story of the year. While he's older, I don't see any particular reason to see him as more experienced than Noel. He's ahead of Noel due to some combination of superior physical talent and superior IQ, and this could well result in the gap getting a lot wider.

What I will say is that a la AD, I could see Gobert splitting his focus more between offense and defense once he really gets going, and thus Noel - who doesn't seem to have any offensive game - might end up the superior impactor on defense alone as a specialist.

Yeah, that's a possibility considering how good he looks offensively for his age. He's much more coordinated and smooth offensively than I ever could imagine, especially considering this is happening during his second season. But in terms of raw talent, I think that Gobert has more defensive talent though. But just like we've seen with AD, it's practically impossible to be THAT dominant on both sides of the ball, unless you're a freak like KG, and a team might benefit from having Gobert develop into a more AD type of player (in terms of which sides of the ball his impact is made, not necessarily stylistically).

[Doctor MJ]

Gobert. Seems to be THE exciting young breakout story of the year. While he's older, I don't see any particular reason to see him as more experienced than Noel. He's ahead of Noel due to some combination of superior physical talent and superior IQ, and this could well result in the gap getting a lot wider.

What I will say is that a la AD, I could see Gobert splitting his focus more between offense and defense once he really gets going, and thus Noel - who doesn't seem to have any offensive game - might end up the superior impactor on defense alone as a specialist.

Yeah, that's a possibility considering how good he looks offensively for his age. He's much more coordinated and smooth offensively than I ever could imagine, especially considering this is happening during his second season. But in terms of raw talent, I think that Gobert has more defensive talent though. But just like we've seen with AD, it's practically impossible to be THAT dominant on both sides of the ball, unless you're a freak like KG, and a team might benefit from having Gobert develop into a more AD type of player (in terms of which sides of the ball his impact is made, not necessarily stylistically).

But even KG wasn't "that" dominant on both sides at the same time. Regardless you and I are clearly on the same page. Gobert is clearly awesome.


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[RSCD3_]

I think what Noel is doing as the anchor of Philadelphia's defense as a rookie is quite impressive.

[HeartBreakKid]

Really hard to judge Nerlens Noel at this point. He is so young and his team is so bad that it's really hard to get a grasp at what he's good at and what he isn't (or what he will be good at).

Gobert is much more tangible and older, so it's easier to project how good he'll be, and as of now he is a better player (though he is older).

If I was a GM I'd feel more comfortable with Gobert as he is more of a sure thing. Huge, good IQ, has some touch, already producing.

[BBgun]

I think what Noel is doing as the anchor of Philadelphia's defense as a rookie is quite impressive.

No doubt it is. Choosing Rudy over him long term in no way detracts from his potential and his performance this year...I think he'll be great. It's more speaking to how good I (and others) think Gobert can become as opposed to being a knock on Noel.

[Hawk]

For some reason I have always been pretty high on Noel. I think he will become a great defensive player, better than Gobert. I choose Noel.

[E-Balla]

Nerlens easily. Can anyone else name a 20 year old rookie this advanced defensively?

Rudy is 2 years older, not coming off an injury that saw him sit from organized basketball for over a year, and he's not a rookie.

Nerlens is averaging 10.3/7.6/1.8 with 1.9 steals and 2.5 blocks in the last 20 games (54 TS, 106 ORTG) while leading Philly to a top 10 defense in that period and having to play with no offensive weapons around him.

There's a reason Rudy wasn't selected higher in the draft at 21 than Nerlens was at 19 despite having all that size and it's because Rudy couldn't really play at that age. Nerlens has the physical tools and natural instincts to make the All Defense team right now as a rookie if he continues to play like this for the next 25 games. Give him some time to develop offensively.

[NinjaSheppard]

Gobert but for me it is more because of positions. I am not sure if Noel can be a center yet and if he is a PF his offense hurts your team way too much. Gobert is pretty obviously a center in the Chandler/DJ mold at the very least offensively.

[WhateverBro]

Gobert. Seems to be THE exciting young breakout story of the year. While he's older, I don't see any particular reason to see him as more experienced than Noel. He's ahead of Noel due to some combination of superior physical talent and superior IQ, and this could well result in the gap getting a lot wider.

What I will say is that a la AD, I could see Gobert splitting his focus more between offense and defense once he really gets going, and thus Noel - who doesn't seem to have any offensive game - might end up the superior impactor on defense alone as a specialist.

Yeah, that's a possibility considering how good he looks offensively for his age. He's much more coordinated and smooth offensively than I ever could imagine, especially considering this is happening during his second season. But in terms of raw talent, I think that Gobert has more defensive talent though. But just like we've seen with AD, it's practically impossible to be THAT dominant on both sides of the ball, unless you're a freak like KG, and a team might benefit from having Gobert develop into a more AD type of player (in terms of which sides of the ball his impact is made, not necessarily stylistically).

But even KG wasn't "that" dominant on both sides at the same time. Regardless you and I are clearly on the same page. Gobert is clearly awesome.


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Yeah, good point. Even at his peak, KG was "only" top ~3 both offensively and defensively. But yes, we agree on Gobert.

[Doctor MJ]

Nerlens easily. Can anyone else name a 20 year old rookie this advanced defensively?

Rudy is 2 years older, not coming off an injury that saw him sit from organized basketball for over a year, and he's not a rookie.

Nerlens is averaging 10.3/7.6/1.8 with 1.9 steals and 2.5 blocks in the last 20 games (54 TS, 106 ORTG) while leading Philly to a top 10 defense in that period and having to play with no offensive weapons around him.

There's a reason Rudy wasn't selected higher in the draft at 21 than Nerlens was at 19 despite having all that size and it's because Rudy couldn't really play at that age. Nerlens has the physical tools and natural instincts to make the All Defense team right now as a rookie if he continues to play like this for the next 25 games. Give him some time to develop offensively.

I think there's good thought here, and it gives me stuff to think about. Let me re-emphasize up front that I wouldn't say I'm down on Noel. Were I running the 76ers, I'd be encouraged by what he has shown defensively, and I'd be looking forward hoping that I'd have a Joel/Noel foundation that would be very strong.

I really struggle looking at Noel though as any kind of prodigy relative to other such prospects. While I looked at Noel as the best prospect in his draft, it's hard to ignore the fact that he was plainly well behind Davis at the same age defensively despite the fact that Noel had basically had his body and was seen as a top draft pick while Davis was still playing as a guard hoping to earn a college scholarship. Simply put: Davis picked up defense quicker than Noel when they were in a context that if anything should have given Noel the edge.

It's somewhat en vogue to say that Noel is now ahead of Davis, at least comparing age-to-age, but again context is key. And by this I don't simply mean that Noel has the luxury of just focusing on learning defense. I mean that in any given game he can focus his energy almost exclusively on defense, and also that he's playing on a team with tank SRS, which means that he's not really playing in a context where teams are losing because they can't get past Noel. Until Noel does what he does in a competitive context, he remains a prospect in my eyes.

On the other side of things, when we talk about being "advanced defensively" for bigs, this isn't something that happens linearly with age, and I think it's helpful to consider what Noel's earlier draft status means: It means that if scouts had it right at the time, Noel was ahead of Gobert, but that Gobert has since passed him up. If Gobert has been learning faster than Noel lately, there isn't really a cause to assume that that trend will be reversed simply because Noel is younger.

[Doctor MJ]

Yeah, good point. Even at his peak, KG was "only" top ~3 both offensively and defensively. But yes, we agree on Gobert.

Well what I mean is that Garnett at his best on defense was the #1 defender in the league, but he was doing this while exerting considerably less energy on offense compared to what he did in the years clustered around his MVP.

[Revived]

I'd take Len over Noel.

[WhateverBro]

Yeah, good point. Even at his peak, KG was "only" top ~3 both offensively and defensively. But yes, we agree on Gobert.

Well what I mean is that Garnett at his best on defense was the #1 defender in the league, but he was doing this while exerting considerably less energy on offense compared to what he did in the years clustered around his MVP.

Yes, that was my point too. It would've been impossible for him to do the Garnett 08 defensively and at the same time doing the 02-04 Garnett offensively. At his peak, he found a middle ground which probably allowed him to have as big of an impact as he could've. Something I hope that AD will do, and it certainly looks that way.

[E-Balla]

I think there's good thought here, and it gives me stuff to think about. Let me re-emphasize up front that I wouldn't say I'm down on Noel. Were I running the 76ers, I'd be encouraged by what he has shown defensively, and I'd be looking forward hoping that I'd have a Joel/Noel foundation that would be very strong.

I really struggle looking at Noel though as any kind of prodigy relative to other such prospects. While I looked at Noel as the best prospect in his draft, it's hard to ignore the fact that he was plainly well behind Davis at the same age defensively despite the fact that Noel had basically had his body and was seen as a top draft pick while Davis was still playing as a guard hoping to earn a college scholarship. Simply put: Davis picked up defense quicker than Noel when they were in a context that if anything should have given Noel the edge.

Even if you didn't see it Noel was generally regarded as one of the best defensive prospects ever. And some (like me) thought he was better than Davis. Saying he's good for someone that grew that late doesn't matter because as you said he already knew how to use that new body he grew into so that doesn't matter. He was a natural.

It's somewhat en vogue to say that Noel is now ahead of Davis, at least comparing age-to-age, but again context is key. And by this I don't simply mean that Noel has the luxury of just focusing on learning defense. I mean that in any given game he can focus his energy almost exclusively on defense, and also that he's playing on a team with tank SRS, which means that he's not really playing in a context where teams are losing because they can't get past Noel. Until Noel does what he does in a competitive context, he remains a prospect in my eyes.

And the Pelicans were winning the last few years? You are basically saying you're ignoring his spectacular play because his team is trash (even though their maasive defensive improvement is mostly because of him). Noel is in the NBA and trying to win games against teams trying to win. He's in a competitive context.

On the other side of things, when we talk about being "advanced defensively" for bigs, this isn't something that happens linearly with age, and I think it's helpful to consider what Noel's earlier draft status means: It means that if scouts had it right at the time, Noel was ahead of Gobert, but that Gobert has since passed him up. If Gobert has been learning faster than Noel lately, there isn't really a cause to assume that that trend will be reversed simply because Noel is younger.

Gobert didn't take a year off due to injury and he isn't a rookie. This is a second year player that had a full year if NBA experience and couldn't touch the court last year. He was inefficient, fouled way too much (something that plagued him in Europe and its plaguing him now), and he coughed the ball up a ton.

I'm not assuming anything about Noel's growth but I'm looking at his improvement over this season alone I think he has a lot of improving to do - especially offensively.

First 30 games of the season: 7.6/7.2, 1.5 steals, 1.4 blocks, 2.3 TOVs, 41% from the field, 43 TS%, 20.6 TOV%, 80 ORTG

Last 24 games of the season so far: 9.9/7.4, 1.8 steals(2.9 stl%), 2.5 blocks (6.4 blk%), 1.5 TOVs, 49% from the field, 53 TS%, 13.5 TOV%, 105 ORTG

Its not hard to see Noel improving a lot once he builds his frame and gets a season under his belt.

EDIT: I'd also like to point out the fact that Gobert has way better offensive help and a specialized role that helps. Gobert isn't put in any bad situations and since starting he's playing way worse than before when he was a backup.

[CaliBullsFan]

I think what Noel is doing as the anchor of Philadelphia's defense as a rookie is quite impressive.

Luc has been the 76ers defensive anchor not Noel

[SkyHookFTW]

If Noel can develop an offensive game I'd take him. He is lightning quick, has serious hops, and plays well off the ball. His help defense is impressive for someone of his age and experience. He is not afraid to challenge in the paint, can defend the rim, and has shot blocking instincts to love.

On the flip side, some of his shots are just....ugly.

[GYK]

Rudy is taking the path of DJ/Tyson. elite finisher/rebounder.
Noel isn't good at it yet but he frequently shoots from distance, he looks to be chasing the rare spacing/defensive big(Ibaka is pretty rare).
I think Rudy's path is easier but not easy. He has to improve defensive and as a cutter.
Noel stroke has to improve. It's pretty hard. It's a higher ceiling but less likely to be reached.