Dirk Nowitzki too one dimensional?

[CurryUpNow]

Had he not won an NBA title against the Heat with a spectacular performance, would he be considered an all time great? He is one of the best offensive big men the game has seen but for his size he wasn't a good rebounder and is a below average defender. Just curious if Dirk was so great in scoring that his other flaws still make him deserve all the recognition that he gets

[Moonbeam]

Dirk's a decent rebounder in my book. Good passer, too, and an OK defender as well. I don't think he's one dimensional at all. And that one dimension is pretty spectacular as it is. Yeah, he's an all-time great, and he acquits himself very well in the playoffs.

[Ballerhogger]

he was ok rebounder but yes his defense was not very good. Especially against another big.

[Clyde Frazier]

Had he not won an NBA title against the Heat with a spectacular performance, would he be considered an all time great? He is one of the best offensive big men the game has seen but for his size he wasn't a good rebounder and is a below average defender. Just curious if Dirk was so great in scoring that his other flaws still make him deserve all the recognition that he gets

The bolded are both narrative driven myths when it comes to dirk in his prime, especially in the playoffs.

[CurryUpNow]

In the playoffs, I noticed that his numbers were much better

Reg season: 22.2 ppg and 7.9 rpg
Playoffs: 25.6 ppg and 10.1 rpg

[Pg81]

Had he not won an NBA title against the Heat with a spectacular performance, would he be considered an all time great? He is one of the best offensive big men the game has seen but for his size he wasn't a good rebounder and is a below average defender. Just curious if Dirk was so great in scoring that his other flaws still make him deserve all the recognition that he gets

The only flaw he had was limited athleticism. Otherwise he was decent to great in most areas.

he was ok rebounder but yes his defense was not very good. Especially against another big.

So that's why he owned Pau Gasol on defense I guess.

[garciathao]

yes, still top 5 PF with or without that ring

[SaintofKillers]

I have a problem with calling Dirk one-dimensional when there's layers to his offensive game.

He wasn't just a 7-footer with range; there's plenty of guys like that before him. Dirk was a 7-footer who can move and score like a shooting guard. As a result, some teams resort to putting one of their wings on him (i.e. if Bowen is on him who's on Josh Howard?) disrupting their line-up in the process.

But for his size he wasn't a good rebounder and is a below average defender.

For most of his career, Dirk was a great defensive rebounder and an even better (and all around one) in the postseason. He wasn't cherry picking for boards either like some players, which adds a few bonus points in his favor.

The "irk" thing is also a myth. Generally, Dirk is an above average defender; he won't get any votes in the All-Defense Team but he won't hurt you either. He does an admirable job keeping speedy guards in front of him on switches and forcing them to take stepback or pullup jumpers; he's a surprisingly competent low post defender; and he's really good at bothering and contesting shots with his length from the weakside. His kryptonite on D is guarding undersized/mobile stretch 4s since he's just not physically capable of running out to the perimeter and recovering (poor athleticism, average lateral movement) when they attack his close outs - see Jax in 2007 or heck even Matt Bonner.

[Jaivl]

So that's why he owned Pau Gasol on defense I guess.

And not only in that infamous 2011 series, but when Pau was in Memphis too, and even in FIBA. Dirk is really the only player that makes Pau's production decrease, I wonder why.

Think about it, this is the guy that routinely eats FIBA frontcourts like they are his breakfast (including team USA), and I think I've never seen him score >20 on FIBA against Dirk.

[Kabookalu]

Dirk Nowitzki was already being hailed as a top PF of all time even before he won his ring. Him winning a ring took away all doubts that he was.

[Texas Chuck]

I mean other than Chuck, Dirk is the worst defensive big among the all-time greats. So while he's not a terrible defensive player(and actually a pretty good man post defender) I think its okay if you want to question his defending.

But Dirk was a really good defensive rebounder and a great one in the playoffs. Just for reference he has averaged the same number of defensive rebounds in the PS as KG and Duncan and more than Dream. The guy hit the glass.

Early in his career he was a poor passer. He never turned the ball over much, but he wasn't fully able to exploit all the double teams he drew. But for the last decade now, he's been a very good ball mover. He's not the playmaker a KG, Bird, Webber are. But he makes the right pass and he makes it at the right time.


And as others have pointed out--his one dimension(being among the elite offensive anchors of all-time especially among bigs) was enough to anchor 50 win teams for over a decade, to go to the playoffs every year, and to play on at least 4 championship level squads(03,06,07,11). And post Nash that was done without so much as one other all-star much less an all-NBA player.

But no. If Dirk's offensive game was merely pedestrian as opposed to legendary he wouldn't be thought of as an all-time great. Just like Magic, Kobe, Bird, Wilt, Kareem, Nash, etc etc etc. He certainly isn't a guy like Russell or Admiral whose defense alone makes them great(not that both of those guys weren't also really good offensively because they were.)

[Joao Saraiva]

OP let me tell you Dirk is a much better rebounder than you give him credit for.

He has 8 post seasons with double digit reboudning, and he peaked at 13.1, on 13 playoff runs.

While he's not an elite rebounder, he certainly does a good job in that department.

His defense is actually good. He doesn't provide impact in terms of rim protection, but he's a forward, not a C. Put a C with good rim protection with Dirk out there and your team will be fine.

He can score on the low post, high post, e can hit a ton of transition threes, he's actually a great pick&pop player, and even a good pick&roll guy... He can score in a ton of ways to be called one dimensional.

[Quotatious]

Dirk is one dimensional compared to someone like Duncan or Garnett because he doesn't stand-out in any area other than scoring/shooting (well, he's awesome in terms of protecting the ball, too), but it doesn't tell the whole story, because Nowitzki's scoring/shooting is super elite and extremely impactful. Like Joao Saraiva just said, he can score in a lot of ways, and you can't give him any space, otherwise he'll make it rain on you from basically any spot on the court. He's always been a matchup nightmare.

Basically Dirk is a perfect example of how misleading saying something like "KG is a great rebounder, defender, playmaker, very good scorer, Dirk is only a great scorer/shooter" can be, because it doesn't reflect how much impact each area of their game really has.

[cpower]

Is Kobe one dimensional too ? worse defender and rebounder, volume shooter, hasn't been successful without big men. LOL

[SDChargers#1]

Is Kobe one dimensional too ? worse defender and rebounder, volume shooter, hasn't been successful without big men. LOL

Not to make this a Kobe thread, but better defender? Maybe when Kobe was older, but jeez the Kobe hate on here has gotten ridiculous.

[cpower]

Is Kobe one dimensional too ? worse defender and rebounder, volume shooter, hasn't been successful without big men. LOL

Not to make this a Kobe thread, but better defender? Maybe when Kobe was older, but jeez the Kobe hate on here has gotten ridiculous.

playoffs alone I would say Dirk was a better defender. What makes you think Kobe was the better defender?

[magicmerl]

Had he not won an NBA title against the Heat with a spectacular performance, would he be considered an all time great? He is one of the best offensive big men the game has seen but for his size he wasn't a good rebounder and is a below average defender. Just curious if Dirk was so great in scoring that his other flaws still make him deserve all the recognition that he gets

I think he'd be considered at the Karl Malone level or below if he'd never won a ring.

[Joao Saraiva]

Had he not won an NBA title against the Heat with a spectacular performance, would he be considered an all time great? He is one of the best offensive big men the game has seen but for his size he wasn't a good rebounder and is a below average defender. Just curious if Dirk was so great in scoring that his other flaws still make him deserve all the recognition that he gets

I think he'd be considered at the Karl Malone level or below if he'd never won a ring.

I don't think there is a big gap between them right now so...

[ohio]

he was simply criminally underrated pre championship, most put him in the Pau Gasol tier.

[Jaivl]

Three rough questions I make myself when judging a player:

*In what level can he increase the point differential/wins of a team? (Impact)
*Does he, or could he do it in a way he could replicate in a wide array of teams or eras? (Portability/skillset)
*Did he lead a team that never won before to a title? (Most important question, totally conditionates my rankings)

Answers: A lot, yes, yes. Maybe he is too unidimensional, so what? So is Russell.