If you have to give a finals MVP to a losing player...

Joao Saraiva · Post #1 » by **Joao Saraiva** » Tue May 12, 2015 9:20 am

If you have to give a finals MVP to player on a losing team, who do you give it to and why?

I know it's happened once, so that NBA finals doesn't count.

Joao Saraiva · Post #2 » by **Joao Saraiva** » Tue May 12, 2015 2:17 pm

The closest series have been a great team effort for the losing team with no great star. Celtics 2010, Spurs 2013 or Pistons 2005... So it's difficult to choose a guy from those years since they don't have a clear star in the series.

When stars have lost they haven't played that well usually. Can Wade 2011 be the best choice here? Won 2 games and played well. Shaq played well vs Houston but it ended up in a sweep... Who else is there?

E-Balla · Post #3 » by **E-Balla** » Tue May 12, 2015 2:51 pm

I think Wade in 2011 is the only clear choice. Lebron last year and Shaq vs Houston wasn't competitive enough even if they were arguably the best players in their series.

LA Bird · Post #4 » by **LA Bird** » Tue May 12, 2015 3:27 pm

1974 Finals (Boston win 4-3)
Kareem: 32.6 / 12.1 / 5.4 / 1.1 / 2.1 / 55.3 TS% (Should have won Finals MVP)
Cowens: 22.7 / 9.9 / 4.6 / 1.1 / 0.3 / 47.0 TS%
Havlicek: 26.4 / 7.7 / 4.7 / 1.9 / 0.0 / 49.0 TS% (Finals MVP)

Post #5 » by **Clyde Frazier** » Tue May 12, 2015 3:32 pm

This is pre finals MVP, but I have a feeling west would be deserving of a few more in a losing effort.

Joao Saraiva · Post #6 » by **Joao Saraiva** » Tue May 12, 2015 3:39 pm

LA Bird wrote:1974 Finals (Boston win 4-3)
Kareem: 32.6 / 12.1 / 5.4 / 1.1 / 2.1 / 55.3 TS% (Should have won Finals MVP)
Cowens: 22.7 / 9.9 / 4.6 / 1.1 / 0.3 / 47.0 TS%
Havlicek: 26.4 / 7.7 / 4.7 / 1.9 / 0.0 / 49.0 TS% (Finals MVP)

Nice catch. Competitive series and Kareem seems to have been the clearly best player of the series.

DamnWestbrook · Post #7 » by **DamnWestbrook** » Tue May 12, 2015 4:41 pm

leBron in 2014. Kept the Heat from scoring 45ppg in the Finals.

Post #8 » by **Quotatious** » Tue May 12, 2015 5:09 pm

Yeah, like LA Bird said, 1974 Kareem deserved it. 2011 Wade is a good mention, too, but Kareem was more deserving. FWIW, 2014 LeBron saved the Heat from a total embarrassment against the Spurs.

I'd like to mention 1977 Dr. J. Walton was certainly a deserving MVP, he was outstanding, but Doc was at the top of his game, as well. He was doing everything he could to give his team a chance to win (including 40 points in game 6). With McGinnis and Bibby struggling as much as they did, Philly didn't have a chance against a well-oiled machine like the Blazers, though.

AshyLarry · Post #9 » by **AshyLarry** » Tue May 12, 2015 5:38 pm

2011 NBA Finals
Dirk Nowitzki: PPG 26 on 41%
Dwyane Wade: PPG 26.5 on 54%

i know stat fans are gonna say "that FG% though" but keep in mind a couple of things:

- Dallas defense was to focus on lebron and throw him out of his game. They know that by doing so they risk wade playing well. Smart coaching letting wade playing well rather than let lebron play well
- Miami's main defense was to focus on Dirk, and Not saying it was an excuse but Dirk throughout the 6 games played with a broken finger, and one game with the flu. so its only natural that his FG would drop considerably.
- Eye test vs fg% would tell you Dirk was more valuable than Wade. Ill tell you something a dallas fan would not admit: All the games were close games...Dallas was not supposed to win that championship, in 4th quarters they were down, guess who always put them up and help get the wins? yup it was dirk, Dirk had as many points as dwade and lebron. Nobody closed out games in miami, Not bosh, not wade, not lebron...Dirk meanwhile was bring Dallas back when they were down and he was closing out the games and the series....

so with that being said, i still think dirk was more valuable than wade in 2011.

Owly · Post #10 » by **Owly** » Tue May 12, 2015 7:03 pm

Quotatious wrote:Yeah, like LA Bird said, 1974 Kareem deserved it. 2011 Wade is a good mention, too, but Kareem was more deserving. FWIW, 2014 LeBron saved the Heat from a total embarrassment against the Spurs.

I'd like to mention 1977 Dr. J. Walton was certainly a deserving MVP, he was outstanding, but Doc was at the top of his game, as well. He was doing everything he could to give his team a chance to win (including 40 points in game 6). With McGinnis and Bibby struggling as much as they did, Philly didn't have a chance against a well-oiled machine like the Blazers, though.

Would have to watch what we have of the games but I think the defensive end kills any chance of Erving as MVP (even outside the conventional must be a winner sense). Bob Gross' series averages 27.7mpg, 17.3ppg, .667fg%.

Sign5 · Post #11 » by **Sign5** » Tue May 12, 2015 7:15 pm

D-Wade 2011 easily.

mischievous · Post #12 » by **mischievous** » Tue May 12, 2015 8:35 pm

Lebron cost Wade a FMVP in 2011.

Jetzger · Post #13 » by **Jetzger** » Tue May 12, 2015 8:52 pm

Kareem in 74 was the first to come to mind. That's the only one off the top of my head where I wouldn't "have" to give it to him, but rather think he actually deserved it.

ThaRegul8r · Post #14 » by **ThaRegul8r** » Tue May 12, 2015 11:40 pm

LA Bird wrote:1974 Finals (Boston win 4-3)
Kareem: 32.6 / 12.1 / 5.4 / 1.1 / 2.1 / 55.3 TS% (Should have won Finals MVP)
Cowens: 22.7 / 9.9 / 4.6 / 1.1 / 0.3 / 47.0 TS%
Havlicek: 26.4 / 7.7 / 4.7 / 1.9 / 0.0 / 49.0 TS% (Finals MVP)

The National Basketball Association season seems to last longer every year, but it finally ended Sunday when it was proven that a five-man team can whip a one-man team.

The Boston Celtics defeated the Milwaukee Bucks 102-87 as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar showed he’s only human. The designation of Sport Magazine that John Havlicek, Boston’s human robot, was the Most Valuable Player seemed illogical. Maybe Boston couldn’t win the title without Havlicek, but Milwaukee wouldn’t win the Southeastern Conference without Kareem.
(St. Petersburg Times, May 13, 1974)

ThaRegul8r · Post #15 » by **ThaRegul8r** » Wed May 13, 2015 2:22 am

Clyde Frazier wrote:This is pre finals MVP, but I have a feeling west would be deserving of a few more in a losing effort.

None of the other loses to Boston, no. '69 West was in the (pronounced "thee") top tier of Finals performances by a player on the losing team. (in which the aforementioned '74 Abdul-Jabbar also resides.)

acrossthecourt · Post #16 » by **acrossthecourt** » Wed May 13, 2015 5:42 pm

I actually covered this topic by building a model of every finals and the voting results, and this went back to the first championship: http://analyticsgame.com/nba/projected- ... -1968.html

Summary: West in 1969 was the "best loser." Next up was LeBron in 2014, who was the only Heat player who did well and shot very well and lost MVP to the guy known for guarding him. Then there's Kareem in 1974, who was a hair away from a title.

And of course, there are all the Celtic challengers in the 60's: West, Baylor, and Chamberlain, Since Boston had a balanced scoring roster, and Russell was a defense first guy, the model favors the leading scorer on the other side more than in other series.

But the answer is actually Joe Fulks in 1948. And if you don't count that era of basketball, LeBron's a good answer by the numbers.

Joao Saraiva · Post #17 » by **Joao Saraiva** » Wed May 13, 2015 8:36 pm

acrossthecourt wrote:I actually covered this topic by building a model of every finals and the voting results, and this went back to the first championship: http://analyticsgame.com/nba/projected- ... -1968.html

Summary: West in 1969 was the "best loser." Next up was LeBron in 2014, who was the only Heat player who did well and shot very well and lost MVP to the guy known for guarding him. Then there's Kareem in 1974, who was a hair away from a title.

And of course, there are all the Celtic challengers in the 60's: West, Baylor, and Chamberlain, Since Boston had a balanced scoring roster, and Russell was a defense first guy, the model favors the leading scorer on the other side more than in other series.

But the answer is actually Joe Fulks in 1948. And if you don't count that era of basketball, LeBron's a good answer by the numbers.

Wow I expected Kareem to be a bit higher on that list. Still good post.

LikeABosh · Post #18 » by **LikeABosh** » Wed May 13, 2015 9:54 pm

AshyLarry wrote: Dallas defense was to focus on lebron and throw him out of his game. They know that by doing so they risk wade playing well. Smart coaching letting wade playing well rather than let lebron play well

Oh, wow. This is so after the fact. Dallas let Wade play well? Smart coaching? Huh? Dallas had the intention to play good defense on everybody not just Lebron. Ridiculous explanation

Post #19 » by **PaulieWal** » Wed May 13, 2015 10:04 pm

LikeABosh wrote:
AshyLarry wrote: Dallas defense was to focus on lebron and throw him out of his game. They know that by doing so they risk wade playing well. Smart coaching letting wade playing well rather than let lebron play well

Oh, wow. This is so after the fact. Dallas let Wade play well? Smart coaching? Huh? Dallas had the intention to play good defense on everybody not just Lebron. Ridiculous explanation

Seriously, there's some revisionist history in regards to Wade's level of play in those Finals. People should check out his highlights from those Finals and he was facing his own fair share of double and triple teams. Yeah, Dallas wanted to take LeBron out of the game but it's not like they were giving Wade single coverage and letting him score freely.

mischievous · Post #20 » by **mischievous** » Wed May 13, 2015 10:34 pm

PaulieWal wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:
AshyLarry wrote: Dallas defense was to focus on lebron and throw him out of his game. They know that by doing so they risk wade playing well. Smart coaching letting wade playing well rather than let lebron play well

Oh, wow. This is so after the fact. Dallas let Wade play well? Smart coaching? Huh? Dallas had the intention to play good defense on everybody not just Lebron. Ridiculous explanation

Seriously, there's some revisionist history in regards to Wade's level of play in those Finals. People should check out his highlights from those Finals and he was facing his own fair share of double and triple teams. Yeah, Dallas wanted to take LeBron out of the game but it's not like they were giving Wade single coverage and letting him score freely.

Yeah, it sounds like people want to find excuses for Lebron, and at the same time find a way to downplay Wade and what he did.