Where does Bogut rank defensively all time?

Moderators: penbeast0, trex_8063, PaulieWal, Doctor MJ, Clyde Frazier

Where does Bogut rank defensively all time?

Top 5
7
27%
Top 10
2
8%
Top 15
6
23%
Top 20
5
19%
Top 25
1
4%
Top 30
0
No votes
Top 35
0
No votes
Top 40
2
8%
Other
3
12%
 
Total votes: 26

User avatar
nurseryc
Analyst
Posts: 3,635
And1: 1,236
Joined: Mar 16, 2012

Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#1 » by nurseryc » Sun May 17, 2015 10:51 am

Arguably the best defensive player in the NBA over the last 5 years, where do you rank Bogut defensively all time?
User avatar
Jaivl
Head Coach
Posts: 6,883
And1: 6,481
Joined: Jan 28, 2014
Location: A Coruña, Spain
Contact:
   

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#2 » by Jaivl » Sun May 17, 2015 10:57 am

Injured 1/2 of the time so... not as high as he should.
This place is a cesspool of mindless ineptitude, mental decrepitude, and intellectual lassitude. I refuse to be sucked any deeper into this whirlpool of groupthink sewage. My opinions have been expressed. I'm going to go take a shower.
User avatar
East Bay Sports
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,666
And1: 2,559
Joined: Jul 05, 2013
     

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#3 » by East Bay Sports » Sun May 17, 2015 12:13 pm

Jaivl wrote:Injured 1/2 of the time so... not as high as he should.

He has only played fewer than 65 games 3 times in his NBA career. For a center that really isn't bad, most of them miss games.

It is really annoying that so many just hear the name "Bogut" and ignore everything other than injury concerns.
User avatar
Jaivl
Head Coach
Posts: 6,883
And1: 6,481
Joined: Jan 28, 2014
Location: A Coruña, Spain
Contact:
   

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#4 » by Jaivl » Sun May 17, 2015 1:43 pm

East Bay Sports wrote:He has only played fewer than 65 games 3 times in his NBA career. For a center that really isn't bad, most of them miss games.

It is really annoying that so many just hear the name "Bogut" and ignore everything other than injury concerns.

In his RS career, he has played 574 out of 820 possible games. Tell me how injuries are not a concern.
This place is a cesspool of mindless ineptitude, mental decrepitude, and intellectual lassitude. I refuse to be sucked any deeper into this whirlpool of groupthink sewage. My opinions have been expressed. I'm going to go take a shower.
User avatar
East Bay Sports
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,666
And1: 2,559
Joined: Jul 05, 2013
     

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#5 » by East Bay Sports » Sun May 17, 2015 1:45 pm

Jaivl wrote:
East Bay Sports wrote:He has only played fewer than 65 games 3 times in his NBA career. For a center that really isn't bad, most of them miss games.

It is really annoying that so many just hear the name "Bogut" and ignore everything other than injury concerns.

In his RS career, he has played 574 out of 820 possible games. Tell me how injuries are not a concern.

Show me where I said injuries weren't a concern? I simply said it is unfortunate that so many can't even discuss Bogut as a player because they just spring for the low hanging fruit and point out he gets hurt sometimes. Everyone is aware of this, my point was a lot of centers get hurt but for some reason it is only the focus of conversation when Bogut comes up.

Look at where you've already taken this thread and it perfectly exemplifies my point. Instead of discussing what the thread starter has hoped we now have generic Bogut injury talk #1502594280. Amazing.
User avatar
RebelWithACause
Starter
Posts: 2,198
And1: 537
Joined: Apr 29, 2012

Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#6 » by RebelWithACause » Sun May 17, 2015 3:04 pm

Per Minute definitely Top10 All-Time.
Yes, his defense is that good.
turk3d
RealGM
Posts: 36,652
And1: 1,277
Joined: Jan 30, 2007
Location: Javale McGee, Dubs X Factor

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#7 » by turk3d » Sun May 17, 2015 3:07 pm

Really difficult to rank in the top 20 alltime even due to his injury problems. He only played in 178 games (out of a possible 328 (a little more than half) the last 4 years. But in terms of how good he is when he's playing and is healthy, he could be top 10 (there's been a lot of great Centers in the game). The only one who I can think of who had similar injury problems (probably even more severe than Bogut) but eventually made it into the hall anyway is Bill Walton.
Draymond Green: Exemplifies Warrior Leadership, Hustle, Desire, Versatility, Toughness, fearlessness, Grit, Heart,Team Spirit, Sacrifice
Image
User avatar
RayBan-Sematra
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,236
And1: 911
Joined: Oct 03, 2012

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#8 » by RayBan-Sematra » Sun May 17, 2015 3:08 pm

1a. Russell
1b. Bogut
3. Robinson
4. Hakeem
Dr Spaceman
General Manager
Posts: 8,575
And1: 11,205
Joined: Jan 16, 2013
   

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#9 » by Dr Spaceman » Sun May 17, 2015 4:33 pm

East Bay Sports wrote:
Jaivl wrote:
East Bay Sports wrote:He has only played fewer than 65 games 3 times in his NBA career. For a center that really isn't bad, most of them miss games.

It is really annoying that so many just hear the name "Bogut" and ignore everything other than injury concerns.

In his RS career, he has played 574 out of 820 possible games. Tell me how injuries are not a concern.

Show me where I said injuries weren't a concern? I simply said it is unfortunate that so many can't even discuss Bogut as a player because they just spring for the low hanging fruit and point out he gets hurt sometimes. Everyone is aware of this, my point was a lot of centers get hurt but for some reason it is only the focus of conversation when Bogut comes up.

Look at where you've already taken this thread and it perfectly exemplifies my point. Instead of discussing what the thread starter has hoped we now have generic Bogut injury talk #1502594280. Amazing.


This definitely shouldn't be taken as any kind of slight or mistreatment of Bogut. The fact is when most people here do all-time rankings, the ability to be an everyday contributor for your team matters a great deal. To use a slightly less extreme example, I'd likely have Manu Ginobili right around my top 20-25 were he capable of superstar minutes/workload in his prime.

This thread isn't asking about basketball ability in a vacuum, on which scale Bogut would rank very highly. But Bogut's health throughout has career has been especially disastrous, and thus it gets brought up all the time because it's the most salient aspect of his career besides his extreme defensive ability.

Look, if I'm starting a team today I take Marc Gasol over Bogut pretty much without hesitation, despite the latter displaying pretty superior basketball ability in general. Bogut is in a perfect situation right now in which he can join an already exceptional team and catapult them to GOAT-level without being relied upon every night. But put him in Gasol's role on Memphis and I think that's a dramatically worse team.

Ability-wise, Bogut might have a case for top 10. But career wise, there just are a multitude of guys you can't justify taking him over. That was Jaivl's point.
“I’m not the fastest guy on the court, but I can dictate when the race begins.”
fuzzy_dunlop
Junior
Posts: 345
And1: 109
Joined: Jan 09, 2014

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#10 » by fuzzy_dunlop » Sun May 17, 2015 5:03 pm

Funny that you bring up Marc, I was just thinking the other day that had Bogut not gotten injured he could have been substantially better than Gasol (overall I mean, not just defensively).
nikomCH
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,251
And1: 191
Joined: Dec 25, 2008

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#11 » by nikomCH » Sun May 17, 2015 5:35 pm

Since I started watching the NBA, I don't know if there is a player who has impressed me more on that end when he's healthy. He's absolutely incredible
User avatar
East Bay Sports
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,666
And1: 2,559
Joined: Jul 05, 2013
     

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#12 » by East Bay Sports » Sun May 17, 2015 5:49 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:
East Bay Sports wrote:
Jaivl wrote:In his RS career, he has played 574 out of 820 possible games. Tell me how injuries are not a concern.

Show me where I said injuries weren't a concern? I simply said it is unfortunate that so many can't even discuss Bogut as a player because they just spring for the low hanging fruit and point out he gets hurt sometimes. Everyone is aware of this, my point was a lot of centers get hurt but for some reason it is only the focus of conversation when Bogut comes up.

Look at where you've already taken this thread and it perfectly exemplifies my point. Instead of discussing what the thread starter has hoped we now have generic Bogut injury talk #1502594280. Amazing.


This definitely shouldn't be taken as any kind of slight or mistreatment of Bogut. The fact is when most people here do all-time rankings, the ability to be an everyday contributor for your team matters a great deal. To use a slightly less extreme example, I'd likely have Manu Ginobili right around my top 20-25 were he capable of superstar minutes/workload in his prime.

This thread isn't asking about basketball ability in a vacuum, on which scale Bogut would rank very highly. But Bogut's health throughout has career has been especially disastrous, and thus it gets brought up all the time because it's the most salient aspect of his career besides his extreme defensive ability.

Look, if I'm starting a team today I take Marc Gasol over Bogut pretty much without hesitation, despite the latter displaying pretty superior basketball ability in general. Bogut is in a perfect situation right now in which he can join an already exceptional team and catapult them to GOAT-level without being relied upon every night. But put him in Gasol's role on Memphis and I think that's a dramatically worse team.

Ability-wise, Bogut might have a case for top 10. But career wise, there just are a multitude of guys you can't justify taking him over. That was Jaivl's point.

I'm well aware of his point, I assumed we were discussing him when he was actually on the court since everyone knows he misses some games. Don't think anyone is unaware of that fact
User avatar
nurseryc
Analyst
Posts: 3,635
And1: 1,236
Joined: Mar 16, 2012

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#13 » by nurseryc » Sun May 17, 2015 11:55 pm

RayBan-Sematra wrote:1a. Russell
1b. Bogut
3. Robinson
4. Hakeem


You rank Robinson above Hakeem?
User avatar
GSP
RealGM
Posts: 18,292
And1: 14,504
Joined: Dec 12, 2011
     

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#14 » by GSP » Mon May 18, 2015 12:02 am

I always thought Bogut was a better overall defensive player than Dwight even in his prime in Orlando while Bogut was on Bucks. Of course Dwights far superior durability puts him ahead but on defensive ability i cant see how Dwight is better. Boguts one of the best big man ive seen at drawing charges, helping out on wings and having the footspeed to recover, he plays phenonemenal post defense like he did against ZBo and Marc, he can keep even the best offensive rebounders completely off the glass, he might not have the best rebound per game numbers but his impact on his teams rebounding is massive, and in rim protecting his superior Iq edges him out in situations against Dwight (keeping ball in play, to a teammate, gaining a possession etc). Underrated athlete and IMO better positionally than Dwight which makes up for some of the athletic gap

Im glad we can finally see them in a playoff series i think both have been top 5 centers this season.
User avatar
RayBan-Sematra
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,236
And1: 911
Joined: Oct 03, 2012

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#15 » by RayBan-Sematra » Mon May 18, 2015 12:28 am

nurseryc wrote:
RayBan-Sematra wrote:1a. Russell
1b. Bogut
3. Robinson
4. Hakeem


You rank Robinson above Hakeem?


Does that surprise you?
It is very close but I do side with Robinson.
Robinson was an incredible defender in his youth and I think his defense aged slightly better then Hakeem's.
Even by 00 or 01 he was still in my eyes one of the top defensive C's in the league.

Still without really doing my own in-depth analysis of the two I can't confidently say who I feel should be ranked over the other in that regard.
For now I would prefer to put them on the same tier but if I had to choose between the two I side with Robinson.
User avatar
nurseryc
Analyst
Posts: 3,635
And1: 1,236
Joined: Mar 16, 2012

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#16 » by nurseryc » Mon May 18, 2015 10:57 am

RebelWithACause wrote:Per Minute definitely Top10 All-Time.
Yes, his defense is that good.


Imagine if he didn't snap his arm in half destroying his offence. He would be an all time great center.
User avatar
pelifan
RealGM
Posts: 14,237
And1: 21,691
Joined: Aug 12, 2014
Location: Small market
 

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#17 » by pelifan » Mon May 18, 2015 8:26 pm

He doesn't

What's with the Bogut love all of the sudden. Most people think he isn't even a top 3 player on the Warriors.
Image
TheOUTLAW
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 41,920
And1: 2,757
Joined: Aug 23, 2002
     

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#18 » by TheOUTLAW » Mon May 18, 2015 9:09 pm

To be a top defensive you can't really be arguably the best of a period of time. You'd have to be the best over that time period. I've never seen that.
UncleDrew wrote: I get Buckets!
User avatar
Winsome Gerbil
RealGM
Posts: 15,021
And1: 13,086
Joined: Feb 07, 2010

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#19 » by Winsome Gerbil » Mon May 18, 2015 9:18 pm

Yeah, I actually was arguing Bogut was the DPOY this season. But even with that, he hasn't clearly separated himself from the whole Chandler et. al. class of defenders during this era. Certainly he's not on a legendary scale like Deke or Mourning or Admiral or Big Ben. He's just been one of the best throughout much of his injury wracked career. I don't know exactly where that lands him, but its outside the realm of "all timers".
mischievous
General Manager
Posts: 7,675
And1: 3,482
Joined: Apr 18, 2015

Re: Where does Bogut rank defensively all time? 

Post#20 » by mischievous » Mon May 18, 2015 9:23 pm

RayBan-Sematra wrote:1a. Russell
1b. Bogut

Green font?

Return to Player Comparisons