Lebron vs Shaq- who do you rank higher all-time?

Matt15 · Post #1 » by **Matt15** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 9:00 pm

Who do you have ranked higher all-time?

RayBan-Sematra · Post #2 » by **RayBan-Sematra** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 9:08 pm

Shaq through 12 years was a considerably better Playoff & Finals performer.
He was more consistent, peaked higher and had fewer failures in elimination.
He was just the better and more unstoppable player. Arguably the 2nd best playoff performer ever after Jordan himself.

Moving beyond that there is the longevity difference.
Shaq had 14-15 elite/quality years.
Lebron currently has 11 (05-15).

So yeah Lebron right now has literally zero case against Shaq career wise.
Premature thread in my opinion.

Mutnt · Post #3 » by **Mutnt** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 9:20 pm

Shaq as of right now, pretty much purely out of respecting the amount of quality seasons he's consistently put up in his prime.

With that said, another couple of quality seasons and LeBron passes him comfortably.

te887848 · Post #4 » by **te887848** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 9:38 pm

LeBron is ahead of Shaq by now. It's close but LeBron has the better career.

Individually he was clearly the more dominant player relative to his peers as evidenced by his 4 MVPs in a span of 5 years, which dwarfs Shaq's 1 MVP.

And I'd say LeBron is a comparable/better playoff performer as well. He's able to lead teams of comparable talent to far greater heights than Shaq. Shaq was dominant but still needed the services of a superstar sidekick always. Can't say that about LeBron.

Right now it's somewhat close but in a few seasons it won't be. Pretty much one more ring and Shaq has no argument over LeBron.

JeepCSC · Post #5 » by **JeepCSC** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 9:55 pm

ShaqsLakers · Post #6 » by **ShaqsLakers** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:01 pm

Shaq rather easily. Won more with less and was simply the better/more dominant player. Shaq is one of the greatest playoff performers ever and arguably the greatest Finals performer of all-time along with MJ. Lebron while he has had his great moments pales in comparison and has often underwhelmed('08,10,'11). Lebron has more MVP's but his level of competition was much weaker than what Shaq faced. Shaq was competing with Hakeem, Barkley, D-Rob, Duncan, Ewing, K-Malone, KG, Nash, Kobe and 2nd 3-Peat MJ. No one would deny that Shaq was clearly the best player in the NBA from 2000-02 and also had a very strong case for MVP in 2005.

afox · Post #7 » by **afox** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:28 pm

Shaq....did someone say Bron didn't need a superstar sidekick?...no he didn't...he needed 2...

Valid · Post #8 » by **Valid** » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:38 pm

te887848 wrote:LeBron is ahead of Shaq by now. It's close but LeBron has the better career.

Individually he was clearly the more dominant player relative to his peers as evidenced by his 4 MVPs in a span of 5 years, which dwarfs Shaq's 1 MVP.

And I'd say LeBron is a comparable/better playoff performer as well. He's able to lead teams of comparable talent to far greater heights than Shaq. Shaq was dominant but still needed the services of a superstar sidekick always. Can't say that about LeBron.

Right now it's somewhat close but in a few seasons it won't be. Pretty much one more ring and Shaq has no argument over LeBron.

You're not serious with this, right?

Anyway, the answer is Shaq. I can almost guarantee that most of the people who voted for LeBron are too young to have seen Shaq in his prime.

te887848 · Post #9 » by **te887848** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:05 am

Valid wrote:
te887848 wrote:LeBron is ahead of Shaq by now. It's close but LeBron has the better career.

Individually he was clearly the more dominant player relative to his peers as evidenced by his 4 MVPs in a span of 5 years, which dwarfs Shaq's 1 MVP.

And I'd say LeBron is a comparable/better playoff performer as well. He's able to lead teams of comparable talent to far greater heights than Shaq. Shaq was dominant but still needed the services of a superstar sidekick always. Can't say that about LeBron.

Right now it's somewhat close but in a few seasons it won't be. Pretty much one more ring and Shaq has no argument over LeBron.

You're not serious with this, right?

Anyway, the answer is Shaq. I can almost guarantee that most of the people who voted for LeBron are too young to have seen Shaq in his prime.

You're joking, right? Shaq is so overrated it isn't even funny. He accomplished nothing more than LeBron other than a few more rings so far just because his team was far better and competition far weaker.

Put him on this year's Cavs and he'd get swept out of the Finals. Shaq was a dominant scorer and post player. LeBron is a dominant all-around basketball player at every phase of the game.

In a few years this won't even be close and LeBron will be far ahead of Shaq. Shaq needs far more help than LeBron to win.

juice4080 · Post #10 » by **juice4080** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:30 am

shaq for now..lebron could certainly pass him later on but im skeptical

scrabbarista · Post #11 » by **scrabbarista** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:48 am

Lebron already.

RayBan-Sematra · Post #12 » by **RayBan-Sematra** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:50 am

te888888 wrote:You're joking, right? Shaq is so overrated it isn't even funny.

Peak Shaq was a force of nature. You might have forgotten just how dominant he was.
He was the closest thing we've ever seen to a basketball cheat code. Like a man among boys.

Lebron himself is amazing and like Shaq one of the best ever but you are letting your love for Lebron cloud your vision and create illogical bias in your mind.
Shaq wasn't Dwight Howard or something. He wasn't some guy you can just casually dismiss the way you just did.
He is literally one of the most dominant players the league has ever seen. Don't trivialize that.

He accomplished nothing more than LeBron other than a few more rings so far

More rings, better overall playoff stats, fewer poor performances in elimination.
More elite Finals performances etc...

Put him on this year's Cavs and he'd get swept out of the Finals.

Really? You don't think 2000 Shaq could have maybe got a win or two?
The guy who was averaging almost 40/20 on elite efficiency while playing dominant defense?
But yeah I guess there is no chance he or even Jordan could get even one win... Lebron is just a level above every other ATG even at this stage of his career.

Shaq was a dominant scorer and post player.

Shaq was a better scorer then Lebron and lifted the play of his teammates greatly as Lebron does.
He was also a dominant rebounder & defensive anchor especially at his Peak.
There were very few aspects of the game that Shaq didn't make a big impact in.
Was not uncommon during his best years to see lines like 35 / 15 / 5-ast / 5-blk etc...

LeBron is a dominant all-around basketball player at every phase of the game.

Honestly other then direct playmaking I don't think Lebron does anything better.
*
Scoring - Shaq
Defense - Shaq
Rebounding - Shaq
Etc...

I am sure you will disagree with all of that except the rebounding but still...

In a few years this won't even be close and LeBron will be far ahead of Shaq.

Right now its "not close" and in a few years it might be close.

Shaq needs far more help than LeBron to win.

Says who?
Shaq's 2000 roster was arguably weaker then the weakest roster Lebron ever won with (2013) and he faced much tougher overall competition in his run (especially conference competition).

Supporting cast production (minus the main guy)
---
Lebron 2013 :::::: 73.5ppg / 29.9-rpg on 55%TS
Hakeem 1994 ::::: 67.5ppg / 29.0-rpg on 54%TS
Shaquille 2000 ::: 68.9ppg / 27.9-rpg on 52%TS

Also Shaq at the very end of his Prime won a title with a young Wade.
Lebron during his Peak lost with Prime Wade & Bosh...
:wink:

GSP · Post #13 » by **GSP** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 1:14 am

Have to say Shaq clearly for now. Lebron will pass him with some more longevity tho.

Peak-Shaq
3yr prime-Shaq
5yr prime-Shaq
7yr prime-Wash
longevity-Shaq

MyUniBroDavis · Post #14 » by **MyUniBroDavis** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 1:17 am

lebron pretty much only has longevity gonig for him, and tbh his athlticism might start to decline.

BallerTed · Post #15 » by **BallerTed** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 1:24 am

Shaq handedly.

Mutnt · Post #16 » by **Mutnt** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 1:25 am

LeBron was more dominant of a basketball player in his prime and at his peak. You can twist and turn it anyway you want it won't really matter because the overall data available supports LeBron. It's really pointless for me to expound on this at all because the lengths at which people go to downplay what LeBron has done over his career borders on psychotic and personally, I'm smart enough to know that there's absolutely no use reasoning against full-pleged agenda-driven individuals.

Which is kinda understandable, since if you aren't a Jordan fan (and even most of those feel threatned to the point they have to sht
on LeBron any chance they get to reinforce this pre-programmed image of Jordan being God amongst minions), high chances are LeBron is just a flat out better player than all of your favorite basketball idols you grew up with, which undoubtadely makes you feel sad.

Now of course, we're dealing with the utmost upper echelon of players in the history of the league, so of course there's room for debate and each player probably has his unique set of strenghts that warranted his name be mentioned amongst the greats. but some of the weakly supported, agenda-driven, lying, totally in-denial stuff that gets posted on here is pretty shameful.

yoyoboy · Post #17 » by **yoyoboy** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 2:47 am

I've got them equal for now, but in a couple years, I think LeBron will be well ahead of Shaq (of course that means GS needs to win a couple more rings).

mischievous · Post #18 » by **mischievous** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 3:13 am

Shaq's longevity gets overrated. He had plenty of seasons in there where he was playing under 70 games. Post 06 he was a fringe all star level player at best. He has good longevity and it's better than Lebron's but it isn't some a super large gap like some are acting. He doesn't have Kareem or Karl Malone longevity.

Anyway it's still Shaq for me, but Lebron is closing in imo. If he puts up 2 more superstar level seasons i think it easily puts him ahead of Shaq.

Cormag001 · Post #19 » by **Cormag001** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 3:21 am

Please, let's get rid of the notion Lebron needed two superstars. Who is REALLY calling Chris Bosh a superstar? He was a good third player, just like championship teams need...

RayBan-Sematra · Post #20 » by **RayBan-Sematra** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 3:30 am

mischievous wrote:Shaq's longevity gets overrated.

No it really doesn't.
Shaq is Top 3 in longevity when it comes to the consensus Top 10-12 guys.
Only Kareem is clearly ahead of him and depending on how you judge longevity Duncan is also right there with him and possibly slightly ahead.

He had plenty of seasons in there where he was playing under 70 games.

For me that isn't a huge deal.
50+ games is enough time to develop good chemistry (never dipped below that) and he only had 3 seasons from 93-06 where he played less then 60 games (nearly played 60 in 2006 which is the 3rd year he missed the mark).
That is just me though. Some people might put more value on maximizing regular-season output/value.

Post 06 he was a fringe all star level player at best.

06 was his 14th season. Very few guys have more then 11-13 All-Star level seasons.
He also had 09 which I consider a solid All-Star level season.

He has good longevity and it's better than Lebron's but it isn't some a super large gap like some are acting.

I don't think anyone said it was a super large gap but it is still a reasonably significant one.
Lebron just had his 11th quality year.
12th year Shaq was still an MVP candidate (as was 13th year Shaq pre-playoffs/late season injury) and 06 Shaq was still the best C/Top 10 All-Star etc...

He doesn't have Kareem or Karl Malone longevity.

No he doesn't but those guys are outliers in that respect.

If he puts up 2 more superstar level seasons i think it easily puts him ahead of Shaq.

Don't agree with that.
Shaq was still a Super-Star / MVP candidate in his 12th quality year so Lebron is not likely to significantly surpass how good he was next year (not in my eyes anyway) and then even if he is better in his 13th quality year it won't be enough to make up for the significantly superior value of Jordan/Shaq over their first 10-12 years.
Lebron has to significantly surpass Shaq in terms of late career longevity/level of play if he wants to reach or surpass him imo. He can't just equal him in that respect.

I do agree though that if Lebron can hold off any further or significant decline for awhile that by the year after next he can start really making up ground and perhaps can eventually reach/surpass Shaq but it won't be easy and it is definitely not a sure thing.
Once you surpass Shaq level you are basically only a hairs width away from Jordan/Kareem level (or are already beyond it) and that isn't a status lightly given.
I don't anticipate Lebron becoming my GOAT but I won't say its impossible either.