Jordan/Mourning vs. Kobe/Duncan

Jim Naismith · Post #1 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:24 pm

At their peaks, which duo would you take? Why?

Vote for your choice above.

Post #2 » by **Quotatious** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:29 pm

It's really close but I'd take Kobe/Duncan, because both led their teams to titles multiple times. Zo never did.

Can't say no to 2003 Duncan + 2009 Bryant. I think it'd be a great fit, with Duncan playing a similar role to Pau on offense (but Duncan was better offensively than Gasol, I think) and also being a great defensive anchor, something Gasol was not.

On the other hand, MJ/Zo intensity would be incredible...

mischievous · Post #3 » by **mischievous** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:34 pm

The Duncan-Mourning gap is bigger than the Mj-Kobe one imo, so i take Duncan/Kobe because of that.

Jim Naismith · Post #4 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:39 pm

Quotatious wrote:It's really close but I'd take Kobe/Duncan, because both led their teams to titles multiple times. Zo never did.

With Jordan, Mourning can concentrate on defense (he's a better rim protector than Duncan). Mourning is also a 20/10 guy that Jordan never had in real life.

Matt15 · Post #5 » by **Matt15** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:02 pm

Kobe/Duncan rather easily. As good as Zo was in his prime hes a little out of place here. Ewing would be a better comparison imo.

Jim Naismith · Post #6 » by **Jim Naismith** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:09 pm

Matt15 wrote:Kobe/Duncan rather easily. As good as Zo was in his prime hes a little out of place here. Ewing would be a better comparison imo.

Zo is out of place as a #1 option, but he's a good #2 option. That's his role here.

DROB27 · Post #7 » by **DROB27** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:15 pm

Alonzo is the weak link in this one ,so I give a slight edge to Kobe and Tim

BullBearBidness · Post #8 » by **BullBearBidness** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:34 am

H2H Zo likely gets shat on by TD, while peak Kobe gives MJ a greater individual battle than he ever had.

Tim and Mamba

UDRIH14 · Post #9 » by **UDRIH14** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:58 pm

it depends...is kobe going to defer or he going to chuck stupid shots to prove a point against jordan, and his team mate...

there is only so much a team mate can put up with when ur playing with a ballhog

JordansBulls · Post #10 » by **JordansBulls** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:38 pm

Zo is the weak link here, however how long would a Kobe/Duncan duo last? There is a pecking order with MJ and Zo, while with Kobe and Duncan both will feel like they are man.

Dr Spaceman · Post #11 » by **Dr Spaceman** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:13 pm

JordansBulls wrote:Zo is the weak link here, however how long would a Kobe/Duncan duo last? There is a pecking order with MJ and Zo, while with Kobe and Duncan both will feel like they are man.

I actually laughed at the implication that Duncan would ever care about “being the man”.

This is a huge reach, even for you.

bballexpert · Post #12 » by **bballexpert** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:20 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Zo is the weak link here, however how long would a Kobe/Duncan duo last? There is a pecking order with MJ and Zo, while with Kobe and Duncan both will feel like they are man.

I actually laughed at the implication that Duncan would ever care about “being the man”.

This is a huge reach, even for you.

Duncan has always let the players that are on a hot streak go and do there thing. If things are not going well he will fallback on his D and so on he just cares about winning not how the result came about takes over when it is needed.

drza · Post #13 » by **drza** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:08 pm

Interesting comp. When I started typing I was expecting to lean Kobe/Duncan, but as I type now I'm not sure. Let's play with this a bit:

Offensively, I think that Kobe/Duncan clearly have the highest ceiling. This is primarily because of Duncan's strong passing, which gives him an ability to be a second offensive hub in a way that Zo never could be. For large swatches of the game, the offense could be run through Duncan in the post while continuing to run smoothly in the face of various defenses. If the other team tried to do that with Zo it would could be bogged down, as Zo was never a strong passer and also had very limited shooting range. This is a weakness.

On the other hand, as someone pointed out up-thread, there is some value to having a clear hierarchy of offensive roles. Duncan is one of the lowest ego players we've ever seen and he's shown later in his career a perfect willingness to defer as Pop has changed the Spurs offense. That said, at his peak I can see moments (or stretches) when he and Kobe could butt heads a bit on offense. I don't think it's a major concern, but it is of note considering the Jordan as alpha and Zo as beta on offense role is natural and seemingly suited to both of them.

So on offense I'd say Kobe/Duncan have the higher ceiling, but perhaps Jordan/Mourning have the higher floor.

Defensively, I think it's pretty clear that Zo/Jordan should be the better pairing. I may give Duncan a slight edge in mobility and space covered over Mourning, but if anything it is a very small edge as Mourning was also mobile and athletic. And Zo was more vertically explosive than Duncan. On the other hand, Duncan was a clearly better rebounder and may be better at playing strong position or help defense while still recovering to the rim for the board. So as defensive anchors, that could be an interesting comparison. But I think that Jordan was clearly a better defender than Bryant, and to a larger degree than the difference between the bigs.

So overall...wow, I've played it out a bit, and I still don't have a clear answer. I kind of feel like Duncan and Kobe have more ways to attack, more versatility. But while the Jordan/Mourning dynamic is less versatile (e.g. Jordan didn't quite have Kobe's shooting range, Mourning can't pass or shoot like Duncan), I think they are extremely effective in their areas of influence and would perhaps be the more consistent line-up. The Jordan/Zo squad would need their PG and wing to be able to shoot, because I think they'd need a strong rebounder at the 4 to be maximized. The Kobe/Duncan squad wouldn't have as specific a need for certain roles, but again, that could give them a higher upside but also makes their bottom line a bit more variable.

In the end, at the moment, I find myself leaning towards Jordan and Zo. Jordan would absolutely captain the offense every night, and it would always be the best decision to have him do so. Zo would always captain the defense, but Jordan would always be right there with him giving effort on that end. I think I would trust that duo more, with the other three unknowns, to build around.

Post #14 » by **PaulieWal** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:17 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Zo is the weak link here, however how long would a Kobe/Duncan duo last? There is a pecking order with MJ and Zo, while with Kobe and Duncan both will feel like they are man.

I actually laughed at the implication that Duncan would ever care about “being the man”.

This is a huge reach, even for you.

Wrong!

That's not a huge reach at all. Compared to some of the other stuff he's said this is actually pretty tame.

Swagalicious · Post #15 » by **Swagalicious** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:41 pm

This is a joke, right? Zo is cute and all but everyone else is basically on another planet as far as exerting impact on an NBA basketball game.

I'm pairing Tim and Kobe and running away with it. 03 Duncan + whatever version of Kobe you prefer is just OP. btw: 09 Kobe might be a popular choice on the PC board, for reasons that come within the territory of typical PC board arguments. Just know that almost 0 real laker fans consider that season to be his peak

Kobe/KG and Kobe/Timmy were always my dream combinations. Kobe and KG were actually close for a while and the synergy is just perfect in a way that maximizes themselves and the team.

Jim Naismith · Post #16 » by **Jim Naismith** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:50 pm

Swagalicious wrote: Zo is cute and all but everyone else is basically on another planet as far as exerting impact on an NBA basketball game.

You're omitting some key distinctions.

In terms of tiers, it's more like:

I'd say Jordan is a level higher than both Duncan and Kobe.

G35 · Post #17 » by **G35** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:14 pm

Swagalicious wrote:This is a joke, right? Zo is cute and all but everyone else is basically on another planet as far as exerting impact on an NBA basketball game.

I'm pairing Tim and Kobe and running away with it. 03 Duncan + whatever version of Kobe you prefer is just OP. btw: 09 Kobe might be a popular choice on the PC board, for reasons that come within the territory of typical PC board arguments. Just know that almost 0 real laker fans consider that season to be his peak

Kobe/KG and Kobe/Timmy were always my dream combinations. Kobe and KG were actually close for a while and the synergy is just perfect in a way that maximizes themselves and the team.

I agree, I lean more to 2003-2007. Too bad he was on some dysfunctional teams......