What does Lebron do better than Bird?

[CavsFan364]

Larry Bird was pretty mediocre as a scorer compared to some of the other greats, especially in the playoffs.

Bird - 28 points per 100 possessions @ 55.1%
James - 36.5 points per 100 possessions @ 56.5%

When it comes to to scoring he has absolutely no argument against Lebron James... NONE lmao face the facts fanboys

Bird played in a seriously strong defensive East with the Bad Boy Pistons and MJ's Bulls.

LeBron played in the weakest conference of all-time.

This is why playoff-only stats are very weak analysis, not to mention the small sample size. Ugh.

[sixerswillrule]

comparing stats of a guy who played his career on glorified all star teams to a guy who played with Drew Gooden and Delonte West

You are proving his point for him. If Bird played his career on "glorified all star teams" then at the very least his advanced offensive stats should be better than LeBron, not worse. Having better teammates makes the game easier for you. LeBron's efficiency skyrocketed in Miami playing with better teammates. That's a pretty silly excuse IMO.

You missed the point entirely. Better or worse stats especially the mythical all inclusive stats like win shares should never be compared H2H of players in VASTLY different situations.

Would having teammates like Wade and Bosh rather than Gooden and West be a not so vastly different situation? You seemed to ignore that so why don't you take a look at those stats?

I'll save you the trouble and give you the result - LeBron still has the clear edge over Bird.

[Quotatious]

Bird played in a seriously strong defensive East with the Bad Boy Pistons and MJ's Bulls.

Pistons and especially Bulls were irrelevant for most of Bird's prime. Pistons became relevant in 1987, and Boston met with Detroit only twice, in the '87 and '88 playoffs. Bulls certainly weren't strong when the Celtics played against them in '86 and '87. They had a losing record both years. They were a typical one-man team, like the Magic with T-Mac, '06 and '07 Lakers with Kobe, '09 and '10 Heat with Wade.

Sixers and Bucks were the toughest opponents the Celtics had in the early and mid 80s.

LeBron played in the weakest conference of all-time.

Magic Johnson played in an equally weak (probably weaker) conference for most of his career.

This is why playoff-only stats are very weak analysis, not to mention the small sample size. Ugh.

I can agree with that. Dismissing regular season is ridiculous in my opinion, but LeBron has the edge over Bird in both RS and PO as a scorer.

[CaliBullsFan]

You are proving his point for him. If Bird played his career on "glorified all star teams" then at the very least his advanced offensive stats should be better than LeBron, not worse. Having better teammates makes the game easier for you. LeBron's efficiency skyrocketed in Miami playing with better teammates. That's a pretty silly excuse IMO.

You missed the point entirely. Better or worse stats especially the mythical all inclusive stats like win shares should never be compared H2H of players in VASTLY different situations.

Would having teammates like Wade and Bosh rather than Gooden and West be a not so vastly different situation? You seemed to ignore that so why don't you take a look at those stats?

I'll save you the trouble and give you the result - LeBron still has the clear edge over Bird.

No having a tired Wade and Bosh still wouldn't make his teams comparable to playing with the Celtics, and to be honest I don't even know what win shares are to know if being on a balanced team would have a positive or negative effect i just know its dumb to compare stats on vastly different teams.

[sixerswillrule]

You missed the point entirely. Better or worse stats especially the mythical all inclusive stats like win shares should never be compared H2H of players in VASTLY different situations.

Would having teammates like Wade and Bosh rather than Gooden and West be a not so vastly different situation? You seemed to ignore that so why don't you take a look at those stats?

I'll save you the trouble and give you the result - LeBron still has the clear edge over Bird.

No having a tired Wade and Bosh still wouldn't make his teams comparable to playing with the Celtics, and to be honest I don't even know what win shares are to know if being on a balanced team would have a positive or negative effect i just know its dumb to compare stats on vastly different teams.

Yup, LeBron has been an incredible offensive player throughout his career despite his supporting cast. Better than Bird.

[PaulieWal]

comparing stats of a guy who played his career on glorified all star teams to a guy who played with Drew Gooden and Delonte West

You are proving his point for him. If Bird played his career on "glorified all star teams" then at the very least his advanced offensive stats should be better than LeBron, not worse. Having better teammates makes the game easier for you. LeBron's efficiency skyrocketed in Miami playing with better teammates. That's a pretty silly excuse IMO.

You missed the point entirely. Better or worse stats especially the mythical all inclusive stats like win shares should never be compared H2H of players in VASTLY different situations.

You didn't have leg to stand on to begin with. We are not talking about WS here. But LeBron has the edge in nearly all offensive advanced stats without even getting into stuff like WS. Whatever criteria you wanna use LeBron has the edge on Bird though it's not a big edge to be clear. You can talk about not comparing two guys in completely different situations but the fact is that playing on better teams helps you produce better advanced stats if not raw stats.

[MoneyMo]

Larry Bird was pretty mediocre as a scorer compared to some of the other greats, especially in the playoffs.

Bird - 28 points per 100 possessions @ 55.1%
James - 36.5 points per 100 possessions @ 56.5%

When it comes to to scoring he has absolutely no argument against Lebron James... NONE lmao face the facts fanboys

Bird played in a seriously strong defensive East with the Bad Boy Pistons and MJ's Bulls.

LeBron played in the weakest conference of all-time.

This is why playoff-only stats are very weak analysis, not to mention the small sample size. Ugh.

Lets not act like defenses aren't more sophisticated and better geared to limiting individual scoring in the half court nowadays with zone defense being implemented and loading up the strong side. And you want the regular season numbers? Sure

Bird - 30.3 points per 100 possessions on 56.4% TS
James - 36.9 points per 100 possessions on 58.1 TS

Still a pretty solid gap in scoring.

[CavsFan364]

Larry Bird was pretty mediocre as a scorer compared to some of the other greats, especially in the playoffs.

Bird - 28 points per 100 possessions @ 55.1%
James - 36.5 points per 100 possessions @ 56.5%

When it comes to to scoring he has absolutely no argument against Lebron James... NONE lmao face the facts fanboys

Bird played in a seriously strong defensive East with the Bad Boy Pistons and MJ's Bulls.

LeBron played in the weakest conference of all-time.

This is why playoff-only stats are very weak analysis, not to mention the small sample size. Ugh.

Lets not act like defenses aren't more sophisticated and better geared to limiting individual scoring in the half court nowadays with zone defense being implemented and loading up the strong side. And you want the regular season numbers? Sure

Bird - 30.3 points per 100 possessions on 56.4% TS
James - 36.9 points per 100 possessions on 58.1 TS

Still a pretty solid gap in scoring.

Once again, per 100 possession stats are weak. For a number of reasons.

[MoneyMo]

Bird played in a seriously strong defensive East with the Bad Boy Pistons and MJ's Bulls.

LeBron played in the weakest conference of all-time.

This is why playoff-only stats are very weak analysis, not to mention the small sample size. Ugh.

Lets not act like defenses aren't more sophisticated and better geared to limiting individual scoring in the half court nowadays with zone defense being implemented and loading up the strong side. And you want the regular season numbers? Sure

Bird - 30.3 points per 100 possessions on 56.4% TS
James - 36.9 points per 100 possessions on 58.1 TS

Still a pretty solid gap in scoring.

Once again, per 100 possession stats are weak. For a number of reasons.

Lebron's better by every metric so your entire argument is weak.


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[TheOUTLAW]

Sixerswillrule,

I don't like the "per 100 possessions" stat.

It counts a 2-3 second fast break dunk as a "possession." That is highly misleading for a number of reasons. That stat is single-handedly misused and misapplied and misleading and I deplore those who use it.

A fast break is a possession. How in the world would you argue differently?

A possession alright, a highly misleading possession when rating players all-time. I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

I completely, you should do exactly that. Being a well above finisher on fast breaks is an important part of the game. Arguing that it isn't as important is quite important.