The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1)

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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#361 » by MyUniBroDavis » Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:37 pm

The-Power wrote:Poor game from him. He missed good looks he usually makes but this happens, nothing to blame him for because he works as usual for his looks and keeps getting them. I can also accept a couple of turnovers since the way we are playing is very risky and based on the potential reward, which works quite well I'd say. The decrease in assist numbers has to do with recent changes in the Curry/Green PnR which is extremely effective this way and our offense through the bigs has been a trademark the last year as well, this trend simply continues.

But he has to stop being sloppy, especially with the simple passes. Damn, the whole league watches and scouts us. You can't expect to have an easy pass to Green in every PnR-situation or an easy pass out to Klay at the 3pt-line. Sometimes it looks like Curry is already one step ahead of the actual play, as if he has something in mind for the situation after the pass was made and therefore forgets to look out for players playing the passing lanes. But you could see how frustrated he has been with this kind of sloppy play (and with some of the misses he expects him to make more often) lately and I'm convinced he turns this around pretty soon. He's the one most bothered by it.

Another topic: Curry's shot-chart

I felt like he picked his spots differently or, another way to look at it, has improved his ability to get his shots up where he wants to. We can see (data from before last night's game but it shouldn't really matter) that the increase of his shot-attempts stems not from midrange or long-2's. Player's increasing their volume are likely to increase their 2pt-jumper attempts because these are usually the easiest shots to get additionally. However, when we look at Curry we see that his % of FGA from 10-16ft is at 6.4 (career: 9.1) and - this is the incredible stat - his % of FGA from 16-<3P is at 11.7 (career: 24.3 (!)). This is a trend we could already witness last year and he keeps continuing it. The % of FGA from 3 is way up as it was to be expected (11.9% above career-average), and so is the proportion of shots from 3-10ft (career-high as well, 4% above career-average with 13.9%) which should be mostly related to his improved floaters he likes to use more now.

The bottom line is: regardless of planned or not, with the different shot selection he improves his efficiency by reducing the most inefficient shots for him (or increasing the high efficient ones, depending on how you want to look at it). This is all the more impressive considering he actually takes more shots. It was talked about that Curry might have extended his range (read it as: he's even more comfortable and efficient pulling up from deeper spots on the court) by Jim Barnett (Warriors' long-time color commentator), that he improved his ball-handling even further (which complies with the eye-test) and that he, as I see it, also worked on his floaters. He also looks a little quicker and stronger, but this is very hard to verify and might be an incorrect perception. Anyway, all of this should help him to maximize the most efficient shots and so far it seems to be true. I'll definitely keep an eye on it over the course of the season. Thoughts?


Im sure that him being "ahead of the plays" is the steve nash effect.

In terms of him shooting, I would like to add another point. almost nothing he is doing is unsustainable.

from 0-3 feet, he is shooting 73%. last year he shot 69%, so its a reasonable jump. Lets say he shoots 71%

from 3-10 feet is probably the only thing destined to go down. he is shooting 59%, compared to 46% from last year.

But he obviously has improved from there, lets say he shoots 48.5% from there

He is shooting 50% from 10-16 feet. shot 51.5% from there last year, so lets say he shoots 50% from there this year

he is shooting 48.5% from 16ft<x<3pnt line. shot 39.4% from there last year. BUT suprisingly, last year was an outlier from there. he generally shoots around 47% from there, so him shooting 48% from there is totally reasonable. lets put him at 47.5%

45% from 3. nothing different.

So since there really is no reason for his volume to go down, lets plug that in.

that puts him at roughly 5.56 2 pointers a game.

and 5.1 3 pointers made a game. lets reduce that to 4.5, for no real reason.

so 5.56 x 2 = 11.12

4.5 x 2 = 13.5

24.62 points.

add in free throws

and he makes 6.4 a game.

he is drawing contact more... BUT for absolutely no reason, lets reduce his free throws to 4 made a game. in reality, he would be making at least 5 a game, but whatever, to make it more fair.

That makes him average 28.5 ppg. keep in mind, I absolutely bothced his freethrows.



BTW, just adjusting for percentages (as in, not botching his 3 poitners)

he averages his 28.5 points on

50.1%-45%-obv90%+, giving him that elusive 50-40-90.

keep in mind, he averaged 30+ without me adjusting his free throws at all, and there really is no reason to adjust them.

also, he does this in about 35 minutes.

just sayin, does anyone realize he had 11 rebounds against the clippers? woefully underrated rebounding poing guard. generally some of his rebounds would have gone out of bounds otherwise, or to another player.

so at this point, we have him averaging

28ppg on 50-40-90
5.6 assists a game
5.3 rebounds a game.
3.9 turnovers, but that should go down

in 35.2 minutes

And we can say that he has been sloppy. how ridiculous is that?

On a sidenote, do you think his assists will go up or down? Draymond has gotten more of a passing role, but it almost feels like a shame.

Draymond is woefully underrated in this board imo.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#362 » by The-Power » Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:28 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:On a sidenote, do you think his assists will go up or down? Draymond has gotten more of a passing role, but it almost feels like a shame.

Compared to last year obviously down because we play somewhat differently. Compared to his current number I would say up, some of it because I expect him to become more sharp again, some of it because I expect his volume-scoring to drop a little bit. I can't see him averaging less than 5 assists per game, he is too good at finding guys and draws too much attention for easy buckets. But I don't see him averaging more than 7 assists per game either given the way we use Green and also exploiting Curry's gravity and the overall ballmovement plus the time for growing more comfortable with the system means more ballmovement and penetration with passing for the overall team. Curry is almost always a) the initiator or b) being used as a decoy to distract defenses which means when defenses overplay he might not touch the ball again because someone has a good look. He also loses one assist or so per game simply for not playing the PnP with Speights who has been garbage so far and is in an extremely bad shape.

I'm bad at predicting numbers but per36 I could see something like 29/5/6/2.5 with 3.5 TO and 65% TS as realistic. Maybe slightly better (other than steals and probably rebounds) if he does not take the foot off the pedal and stays sharp.

MyUniBroDavis wrote:Draymond is woefully underrated in this board imo.

Mh, I would not go that far. Many people start realizing how great he actually is and appreciate his game more and more. Some are really high on him, like I am, and some others wouldn't go as far. But overall he gets more and more recognition. His raw numbers certainly help and so does his finals-reputation and some kind of longevity starting for him (i.e. it's the second season he's vital to our success). Like with every player other than maybe Rookies (and in their case it's often projections which are over the top), most people are slow to react to players' development (often in both directions). It takes time for them to rank a player as high as he deserves to be ranked because they are either a) nostalgic about former or older players who are compared to the respective player or b) simply not convinced that a certain year was not a fluke or that the stats can be trusted, hence precautionarily rank them lower. It's normal I would say.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#363 » by Onus » Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:44 am



Love that this is part of his practice routine ... lmao
Most 4th Quarter Points in Final since 1991
1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
1998 Michael Jordan 10.6 (50.6% TS)
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#364 » by euliss » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:30 am

Quite game tonight, still needs to get his turnovers down. A lot of moments in that game he had moves that could have easily turned into turnoevers but they didn't

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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#365 » by SideshowBob » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:44 am

58-9 remaining.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#366 » by JimmyTD3 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:55 am

euliss wrote:Quite game tonight, still needs to get his turnovers down. A lot of moments in that game he had moves that could have easily turned into turnoevers but they didn't

Image

impressive



Nah man. Haven't you heard, Warriors would get handled in any era other than this one and get beaten by any good team prior to the year 2014. Especially the 90's. 45 win team in the 90's.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#367 » by bballexpert » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:06 pm

Right now Curry obmp is at **** 12.1 right now that is pretty nuts and his per is **** highest to like 33 something how high is that like all time does anybody know. The only one close to him stat department is westbrook who is a monster but i still feel Curry shooting and decision making are just plain better and have more impact on the game.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#368 » by SideshowBob » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:10 pm

bballexpert wrote:Right now Curry obmp is at **** 12.1 right now that is pretty nuts and his per is **** highest to like 33 something how high is that like all time does anybody know. The only one close to him stat department is westbrook who is a monster but i still feel Curry shooting and decision making are just plain better and have more impact on the game.


Curry is #1 all time in PER, Westbrook is #2. No one has ever been higher than 31.8 before.

BPM

09 Lebron +13.0
16 Westbrook +12.9
10 Lebron +12.5
16 Curry +12.3
But in his home dwelling...the hi-top faded warrior is revered. *Smack!* The sound of his palm blocking the basketball... the sound of thousands rising, roaring... the sound of "get that sugar honey iced tea outta here!"
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#369 » by cpower » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:32 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
The-Power wrote:Poor game from him. He missed good looks he usually makes but this happens, nothing to blame him for because he works as usual for his looks and keeps getting them. I can also accept a couple of turnovers since the way we are playing is very risky and based on the potential reward, which works quite well I'd say. The decrease in assist numbers has to do with recent changes in the Curry/Green PnR which is extremely effective this way and our offense through the bigs has been a trademark the last year as well, this trend simply continues.

But he has to stop being sloppy, especially with the simple passes. Damn, the whole league watches and scouts us. You can't expect to have an easy pass to Green in every PnR-situation or an easy pass out to Klay at the 3pt-line. Sometimes it looks like Curry is already one step ahead of the actual play, as if he has something in mind for the situation after the pass was made and therefore forgets to look out for players playing the passing lanes. But you could see how frustrated he has been with this kind of sloppy play (and with some of the misses he expects him to make more often) lately and I'm convinced he turns this around pretty soon. He's the one most bothered by it.

Another topic: Curry's shot-chart

I felt like he picked his spots differently or, another way to look at it, has improved his ability to get his shots up where he wants to. We can see (data from before last night's game but it shouldn't really matter) that the increase of his shot-attempts stems not from midrange or long-2's. Player's increasing their volume are likely to increase their 2pt-jumper attempts because these are usually the easiest shots to get additionally. However, when we look at Curry we see that his % of FGA from 10-16ft is at 6.4 (career: 9.1) and - this is the incredible stat - his % of FGA from 16-<3P is at 11.7 (career: 24.3 (!)). This is a trend we could already witness last year and he keeps continuing it. The % of FGA from 3 is way up as it was to be expected (11.9% above career-average), and so is the proportion of shots from 3-10ft (career-high as well, 4% above career-average with 13.9%) which should be mostly related to his improved floaters he likes to use more now.

The bottom line is: regardless of planned or not, with the different shot selection he improves his efficiency by reducing the most inefficient shots for him (or increasing the high efficient ones, depending on how you want to look at it). This is all the more impressive considering he actually takes more shots. It was talked about that Curry might have extended his range (read it as: he's even more comfortable and efficient pulling up from deeper spots on the court) by Jim Barnett (Warriors' long-time color commentator), that he improved his ball-handling even further (which complies with the eye-test) and that he, as I see it, also worked on his floaters. He also looks a little quicker and stronger, but this is very hard to verify and might be an incorrect perception. Anyway, all of this should help him to maximize the most efficient shots and so far it seems to be true. I'll definitely keep an eye on it over the course of the season. Thoughts?


Im sure that him being "ahead of the plays" is the steve nash effect.

In terms of him shooting, I would like to add another point. almost nothing he is doing is unsustainable.

from 0-3 feet, he is shooting 73%. last year he shot 69%, so its a reasonable jump. Lets say he shoots 71%

from 3-10 feet is probably the only thing destined to go down. he is shooting 59%, compared to 46% from last year.

But he obviously has improved from there, lets say he shoots 48.5% from there

He is shooting 50% from 10-16 feet. shot 51.5% from there last year, so lets say he shoots 50% from there this year

he is shooting 48.5% from 16ft<x<3pnt line. shot 39.4% from there last year. BUT suprisingly, last year was an outlier from there. he generally shoots around 47% from there, so him shooting 48% from there is totally reasonable. lets put him at 47.5%

45% from 3. nothing different.

So since there really is no reason for his volume to go down, lets plug that in.

that puts him at roughly 5.56 2 pointers a game.

and 5.1 3 pointers made a game. lets reduce that to 4.5, for no real reason.

so 5.56 x 2 = 11.12

4.5 x 2 = 13.5

24.62 points.

add in free throws

and he makes 6.4 a game.

he is drawing contact more... BUT for absolutely no reason, lets reduce his free throws to 4 made a game. in reality, he would be making at least 5 a game, but whatever, to make it more fair.

That makes him average 28.5 ppg. keep in mind, I absolutely bothced his freethrows.



BTW, just adjusting for percentages (as in, not botching his 3 poitners)

he averages his 28.5 points on

50.1%-45%-obv90%+, giving him that elusive 50-40-90.

keep in mind, he averaged 30+ without me adjusting his free throws at all, and there really is no reason to adjust them.

also, he does this in about 35 minutes.

just sayin, does anyone realize he had 11 rebounds against the clippers? woefully underrated rebounding poing guard. generally some of his rebounds would have gone out of bounds otherwise, or to another player.

so at this point, we have him averaging

28ppg on 50-40-90
5.6 assists a game
5.3 rebounds a game.
3.9 turnovers, but that should go down

in 35.2 minutes

And we can say that he has been sloppy. how ridiculous is that?

On a sidenote, do you think his assists will go up or down? Draymond has gotten more of a passing role, but it almost feels like a shame.

Draymond is woefully underrated in this board imo.

The only thing stops him from getting 30 ppg is minutes, they are starting to blow out teams again, Curry's minutes will go down.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#370 » by Dr Spaceman » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:36 pm

Stringcheese wrote:
euliss wrote:Quite game tonight, still needs to get his turnovers down. A lot of moments in that game he had moves that could have easily turned into turnoevers but they didn't

Image

impressive



Nah man. Haven't you heard, Warriors would get handled in any era other than this one and get beaten by any good team prior to the year 2014. Especially the 90's. 45 win team in the 90's.


Man, I miss the days when every team had a player as good as Olajuwon and everyone lost multiple teeth everything they went into the paint.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#371 » by rich316 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:10 pm

Was at the game last night v. the Nuggets. Aside from a moment where he crossed up Gallo and drained a 3 in his face from the corner, not the most dazzling Curry game.

I was really impressed with Mudiay. At the beginning of the 2nd half he was making plays all over the court. He needs to figure out where his spots for his jumpshot are, but he has loads of potential. Kinda reminds me of rookie Wade. His fastbreak block on Curry was incredible.

I have no idea how Jameer Nelson has an NBA contract.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#372 » by Quotatious » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:38 pm

I don't know if somebody has already mentioned it here or not, but what's amazing about Curry is that he's shooting over 51% FG so far this season, despite the fact that more than a half of his shots are threes. He's shooting 60% from inside the arc.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#373 » by rich316 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:14 am

Interesting listening to NBA people brainstorm ways to stop the Curry/Green PnR. Lowe says some coaches are talking about sending 3 defenders at the play, and having a guy in Green's face when he makes the catch from Curry. We've seen enough of the Warriors to know that Draymond rolling down the lane off the catch is death - you have to try something to stop that from happening. That of course means there's a wide open shooter somewhere on the court, and the whole defense has to be switching perfectly towards that shooter as Green makes the catch. It's not a good solution, but coaches are going to be trying weird stuff to try to slow this down, because nothing they're trying now is working at all. We will almost certainly see some team try this in the playoffs, but probably not before then. Nobody will want to unleash it before it really counts.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#374 » by Nbafanatic » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:27 am

Curry made a concerted effort today to really avoid silly turnovers, and he got 0 turnovers in the game. I'm just starting to think that he is attempting a bit too many 3 pointers, I think 9 or 10 would be a great number per 36 minutes. What do you guys think?
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#375 » by cpower » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:30 am

Nbafanatic wrote:Curry made a concerted effort today to really avoid silly turnovers, and he got 0 turnovers in the game. I'm just starting to think that he is attempting a bit too many 3 pointers, I think 9 or 10 would be a great number per 36 minutes. What do you guys think?

no, I think he needs to shoot more, just not to force them. if he can get his % around 45, he can shoot as many as he wants.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#376 » by SideshowBob » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:34 am

GSW should be at 12.9 SRS after tonight's game. I'll start doing detailed team breakdowns SRS/Off/Def/In&Out once we get to 20-25 G.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#377 » by Nbafanatic » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:36 am

cpower wrote:
Nbafanatic wrote:Curry made a concerted effort today to really avoid silly turnovers, and he got 0 turnovers in the game. I'm just starting to think that he is attempting a bit too many 3 pointers, I think 9 or 10 would be a great number per 36 minutes. What do you guys think?

no, I think he needs to shoot more, just not to force them. if he can get his % around 45, he can shoot as many as he wants.



Yeah, that's what I meant, actually. He seems to be forcing some shots without need, thus decreasing his % these last few games. Today he tried 12 threes in 30 minutes. It's curious that he's been missing the most of them on catch and shoot situations.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#378 » by spearsy23 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:26 am

Over the last 7 games or so he has really came back to earth... Where he's only the best player in the game instead of all time :lol:
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#379 » by SinceGatlingWasARookie » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:44 am

rich316 wrote:Interesting listening to NBA people brainstorm ways to stop the Curry/Green PnR. Lowe says some coaches are talking about sending 3 defenders at the play, and having a guy in Green's face when he makes the catch from Curry. We've seen enough of the Warriors to know that Draymond rolling down the lane off the catch is death - you have to try something to stop that from happening. That of course means there's a wide open shooter somewhere on the court, and the whole defense has to be switching perfectly towards that shooter as Green makes the catch. It's not a good solution, but coaches are going to be trying weird stuff to try to slow this down, because nothing they're trying now is working at all. We will almost certainly see some team try this in the playoffs, but probably not before then. Nobody will want to unleash it before it really counts.


Teams sent 3 guys or at least 2 1/2 guys at Curry and the pick setter last year. I think Tom Thibodeau and Doc Rivers did that last year. They probably talked each other.

Bogut was the primary pick setter. Draymond tended to be the guy Curry was passing to and then Draymond became the decision maker. Using Draymond as the pick setter creates a different look.

With Bogut, Klay, Draymond and Curry you can get multiple picks and screens in succession and the picks and screens seem so spontaneous while at the same time precise. It is sort of like a tight jazz bad that knows each other's moves well enough to improvise off each others riffs without clashing with each other or getting stagnant and being predictable.

The Warriors get so much attention for their shooting but when they are playing well the way they set picks, move without the ball and pass is really more impressive than their shooting.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#380 » by The-Power » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:24 am

Nbafanatic wrote:Curry made a concerted effort today to really avoid silly turnovers, and he got 0 turnovers in the game. I'm just starting to think that he is attempting a bit too many 3 pointers, I think 9 or 10 would be a great number per 36 minutes. What do you guys think?

There is no such thing as a limit to certain shots for great shooters, like 9 or 10 per36. In Curry's case it's shoot whenever you feel like it. He has had a couple of subpar games in 3pt-shooting lately but this doesn't change the fact that every 3pt-shot he can take is a good shot. It's not like he plays like Kobe out there, most of his missed threes are decent looks he usually converts at a higher rate and this will come back to normal again. There is a reason why most people wanted Curry to take more shots this year so you're probably on an island with your opinion here and I'm sure the missed shots lately contributed mightily to it. Nobody said Curry should limit his attempts after 8 games were played.

On another note: there goes that record! :)

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