Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan

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Who would you take?

Poll ended at Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:46 am

Wade
24
75%
Jordan
8
25%
 
Total votes: 32

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Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#1 » by cyclix » Thu Oct 1, 2015 12:46 am

Combine Wade with Ray Allen's shooting vs Jordan, who would you take?
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#2 » by Crabman » Thu Oct 1, 2015 1:13 am

Wow. Wade would be crazy good.
Defensively, i'll still take Jordan over Wade. Both overrated defenders, but Jordan is still one of the best. Wade was a good defender, but he always gambled.
Offensively, there is no stopping this Wade. I'll take him over Jordan, especially if I have another star on the roster. Wade would be elite with and off the ball.
It'd be close, but I'm taking Wade.
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#3 » by mischievous » Thu Oct 1, 2015 2:37 am

Wade with Ray Allen's shooting abilities would be the goat offensive player. Jordan's better d would make it interesting though.
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#4 » by Domejandro » Thu Oct 1, 2015 6:58 am

I have to take Dwayne Jesus on this one, somebody with his penetrating ability, shooting, and athleticism would be legitimately unstoppable.
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#5 » by Prez » Thu Oct 1, 2015 7:49 am

Flash Jesus for me. Pretty much a perfect offensive wing, with elite defense to go with it.
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#6 » by Quotatious » Thu Oct 1, 2015 8:10 am

mischievous wrote:Wade with Ray Allen's shooting abilities would be the goat offensive player. Jordan's better d would make it interesting though.

I don't think the difference between Jordan and Wade on defense is that big. Definitely not enough to make up for the gap on offense in Ray Wade's favor.
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#7 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Oct 1, 2015 11:54 am

I'm not at all convinced Wade with Ray's shooting ability would be a better offensive player than Mike anyway. Sure on paper it sounds like his skill set is insane, but I'm guessing that Wade wouldn't be nearly as willing to relentlessly attack the basket and take the pounding he took, if instead he could just rise up and shoot jump shots at an elite level. We see this a lot with athletic wings who develop more range---almost all of them become overly reliant on it and less and less often take the option that is more taxing. We saw this with TMac and Vince and JR Smith and even spares like Gerald Green.

Plus if we are talking about the overall player, Mike remains the superior defender, passer, and rebounder. And of course mentally he's still about the best there has ever been. I'd still take Mike.
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#8 » by tsherkin » Thu Oct 1, 2015 1:01 pm

Chuck Texas wrote:I'm not at all convinced Wade with Ray's shooting ability would be a better offensive player than Mike anyway. Sure on paper it sounds like his skill set is insane, but I'm guessing that Wade wouldn't be nearly as willing to relentlessly attack the basket and take the pounding he took, if instead he could just rise up and shoot jump shots at an elite level. We see this a lot with athletic wings who develop more range---almost all of them become overly reliant on it and less and less often take the option that is more taxing. We saw this with TMac and Vince and JR Smith and even spares like Gerald Green.


I guess it's implicit in the conversation that the strengths he had remained. Prime Wade was still taking 3 - 3.5 3PA/g for a couple of years. Give him 90% FT and the ability to hit those at 40%+ and he makes up for a lot of anything he might lose by increasing his 3PAr, you know? Makes him more effective on the nights where he's banged up and can't explode like he wants to, as well, and more dangerous in structured sets at the end of quarters/games/out of time outs, etc. Jordan manipulated the J like a boss through the majority of his career in a host of ways.

Also, technically, you saw it with Jordan as well, the willingness to go to the J instead of all the way to the hole, and it helped with his longevity, as well as his set versatility.

Just food for thought: the root idea that MJ might still be better is certainly there to consider. It's a compelling comparison.
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#9 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Oct 1, 2015 1:07 pm

tsherkin wrote:
Also, technically, you saw it with Jordan as well, the willingness to go to the J instead of all the way to the hole, and it helped with his longevity, as well as his set versatility.





No question, but his post and mid-range game were elite. Wade/Allen wouldn't be on that level. The only edge would be the distance shooting really and I just don't think its enough. I have tons of respect for Wade(and Ray) but Mike was just a whole other beast.

Also as an aside, I understand what you are saying about the idea here being that Wade would lose nothing while gaining the shooting. I guess I just don't think that's totally realistic and wanted to at least acknowledge that.
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#10 » by tsherkin » Thu Oct 1, 2015 1:30 pm

Chuck Texas wrote:No question, but his post and mid-range game were elite. Wade/Allen wouldn't be on that level. The only edge would be the distance shooting really and I just don't think its enough. I have tons of respect for Wade(and Ray) but Mike was just a whole other beast.


Well, 3pt shooting, FT shooting and yes, mid-range shooting would be equivalent at worst. Wade also does have post game of his own, so softer touch on the J out of those elbow sets that he gets would be quite nice, and projectable based on this situation.

Also as an aside, I understand what you are saying about the idea here being that Wade would lose nothing while gaining the shooting. I guess I just don't think that's totally realistic and wanted to at least acknowledge that.


It certainly makes sense, I'm just DA'g the OP, you know? More directly, Wade had 2 or 3 years at 3+ 3PA/g in his actual career while driving hard at the rim, so you can envision peak Wade operating off of that, just doing better, you know?
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#11 » by Prez » Thu Oct 1, 2015 1:48 pm

Wade is an extremely high IQ player and is a natural born attacker and aggressive slasher. Not just his mentality, but skill-wise as well, with his handles, natural fluidity with the ball in his hands, unique ability to see cracks in the defense towards the rim. I don't think just because he is gifted with range, he would abuse it like other players. It'd just be another weapon in his arsenal imo. Something to keep defenses honest and another go to option when that crack in the defense just isn't there. And like tsherkin said Wade wasn't a sniper by any stretch but he did have a turnaround J, a midrange game, etc. Having those skills refined with GOAT-level shooting would be a massive upgrade.
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#12 » by Swagalicious » Thu Oct 1, 2015 3:46 pm

Wade would be the GOAT offensive player. If you give him the ability to just rise up and bury everything he's unstoppable. I mean, he never had problems tearing up elite defensive teams but with Ray's shooting ability it's just unfair.
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#13 » by mdonnelly1989 » Thu Oct 1, 2015 7:46 pm

Wade Allen would def win roughly 10+ scoring titles.
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#14 » by EyePlay2Win » Thu Oct 1, 2015 8:00 pm

This thread shows how GOAT-like Jordan was. I'm not saying Jesus Wade is not better, but the combination would still NOT be as Jordan going to the rim, defensively, durably, and mentally.
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#15 » by Jim Naismith » Thu Oct 1, 2015 8:07 pm

If considering longevity, Ray Wade loses a third of his prime due to injury.

Advantage: Jordan.
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#16 » by TroubleS0me » Fri Oct 2, 2015 2:31 am

Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade = 2010 wade vs celtics playoffs
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#17 » by Zasterror » Fri Oct 2, 2015 3:34 am

He would be GOAT.
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#18 » by tsherkin » Fri Oct 2, 2015 12:25 pm

TroubleS0me wrote:Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade = 2010 wade vs celtics playoffs


For people who do not recall this 5-game series in the first round, Wade was 15/37 from 3 (40.5%, 7.4 3PA/g) while averaging 8 FTA/g and taking 22 FGA/g. He scored 33.2 ppg in 42 mpg on 56.4% FG, crapped out at 67.5% FT, but still posted 65.0% TS (!) and 115 ORTG on 34.6% USG while his teammates were so distastefully bad that despite Wade's performance, the team only managed a 97.8 ORTG on the series.

But it does give a good example of Wade bombing away from three while maintaining his aggressiveness.
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#19 » by lukekarts » Fri Oct 2, 2015 2:34 pm

I'm going to do a very rudimentary bit of maths to see the impact.

If Wade shot exactly the same number of attempts of threes and FTs, but made them at Ray Allen's efficiency, his peak performance would increase by: 1.2 points (from 3 pointers made) and a further 1.3 points on free throws. In 09 he would have a been a 32.7ppg player on 60% TS%... pretty nice, he's certainly be drawing those dominant offensive comparisons for one of the best seasons ever.

It's obviously harder to assess just how he'd transition as a shooter - you'd expect 3 pointers increase as percentage of his overall shots, and there'd be a significant additional benefit to his team mates as he'd create even more space for them.

I may well give the nod to Ray Wade in this scenario.
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Re: Dwyane "Shuttlesworth" Wade vs Michael Jordan 

Post#20 » by Ballerhogger » Fri Oct 2, 2015 4:48 pm

I think flash Jesus would be better overall . He would definetly take more 3s. I wonder if he would go the kobe route his career. Kobe shot a lot more 3s later in his career .

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