Kawhi Irving

[Jim Naismith]

Kawhi Irving is a 6' 7" hybrid who combines the strengths of Kawhi Leonard and Kyrie Irving.

For one peak season, would you take Kawhi Irving or Kobe Bryant?

Vote above.

[SlowPaced]

Kawhi Irving is the better ball handler, better outside shooter, better penetrator, equal shot creator and significantly better defender. The only thing Kobe has over Kawhi Irving is post game and footwork, but Kawhi has a pretty good post game himself. Not close for me.

- Kobe has athleticism over Kawhi Irving too, but the usual benefits of athleticism don't give Kobe the edge here (Defense, penetration)

[KobesScarf]

Kawhi Irving is the better ball handler, better outside shooter, better penetrator, equal shot creator and significantly better defender. The only thing Kobe has over Kawhi Irving is post game and footwork, but Kawhi has a pretty good post game himself. Not close for me.

- Kobe has athleticism over Kawhi Irving too, but the usual benefits of athleticism don't give Kobe the edge here (Defense, penetration)

Kobe is a better rebounder, passer, finisher and shooter. Also better endurance.

[SlowPaced]

Kawhi Irving is the better ball handler, better outside shooter, better penetrator, equal shot creator and significantly better defender. The only thing Kobe has over Kawhi Irving is post game and footwork, but Kawhi has a pretty good post game himself. Not close for me.

- Kobe has athleticism over Kawhi Irving too, but the usual benefits of athleticism don't give Kobe the edge here (Defense, penetration)

Kobe is a better rebounder, passer, finisher and shooter. Also better endurance.

Kobe absolutely is not a better rebounder than Kawhi. Kobe's career high TRB% is 9.3, Kawhi's career low TRB% is 11.1.

If Kobe has an edge on passing, it's a slight one at best. Kyrie has a better AST/TO ratio, you can give an asterisk to Kobe because of his volume scoring that resulted in more turnovers but it's a slight advantage. Kawhi Irving would command way more attention than Kyrie Irving by himself does, so that's likely to increase his assist numbers as well.

Kobe absolutely is not a better shooter from downtown. On similar volume, Kobe's career high 3PT% was %38.3 and he mostly wandered around the %34-35 range, while Kyrie has hit %40 twice and %39 once in his five year career. Kawhi hit %44 from downtown on similar volume this past season. Kobe might be a better shooter from mid-range, but that's something Kawhi also excels at, and Kyrie's added ball skills likely gives him more wide open opportunities from there.

Kyrie is injury prone but Kawhi isn't. His biggest injury was related to his eye, hardly has anything to do with endurance.

[E-Balla]

Kawhi Irving is the better ball handler, better outside shooter, better penetrator, equal shot creator and significantly better defender. The only thing Kobe has over Kawhi Irving is post game and footwork, but Kawhi has a pretty good post game himself. Not close for me.

- Kobe has athleticism over Kawhi Irving too, but the usual benefits of athleticism don't give Kobe the edge here (Defense, penetration)

Kobe is a better rebounder, passer, finisher and shooter. Also better endurance.

Kobe absolutely is not a better rebounder than Kawhi. Kobe's career high TRB% is 9.3, Kawhi's career low TRB% is 11.1.

If Kobe has an edge on passing, it's a slight one at best. Kyrie has a better AST/TO ratio, you can give an asterisk to Kobe because of his volume scoring that resulted in more turnovers but it's a slight advantage. Kawhi Irving would command way more attention than Kyrie Irving by himself does, so that's likely to increase his assist numbers as well.

Kobe absolutely is not a better shooter from downtown. On similar volume, Kobe's career high 3PT% was %38.3 and he mostly wandered around the %34-35 range, while Kyrie has hit %40 twice and %39 once in his five year career. Kawhi hit %44 from downtown on similar volume this past season. Kobe might be a better shooter from mid-range, but that's something Kawhi also excels at, and Kyrie's added ball skills likely gives him more wide open opportunities from there.

Kyrie is injury prone but Kawhi isn't. His biggest injury was related to his eye, hardly has anything to do with endurance.

His career high in games played is 72 and he plays 65 games a year in average. He's definitely injury prone.

[SlowPaced]

Kobe is a better rebounder, passer, finisher and shooter. Also better endurance.

Kobe absolutely is not a better rebounder than Kawhi. Kobe's career high TRB% is 9.3, Kawhi's career low TRB% is 11.1.

If Kobe has an edge on passing, it's a slight one at best. Kyrie has a better AST/TO ratio, you can give an asterisk to Kobe because of his volume scoring that resulted in more turnovers but it's a slight advantage. Kawhi Irving would command way more attention than Kyrie Irving by himself does, so that's likely to increase his assist numbers as well.

Kobe absolutely is not a better shooter from downtown. On similar volume, Kobe's career high 3PT% was %38.3 and he mostly wandered around the %34-35 range, while Kyrie has hit %40 twice and %39 once in his five year career. Kawhi hit %44 from downtown on similar volume this past season. Kobe might be a better shooter from mid-range, but that's something Kawhi also excels at, and Kyrie's added ball skills likely gives him more wide open opportunities from there.

Kyrie is injury prone but Kawhi isn't. His biggest injury was related to his eye, hardly has anything to do with endurance.

His career high in games played is 72 and he plays 65 games a year in average. He's definitely injury prone.

None of his injuries indicate a long term endurance problem. He missed the bulk of his games due to an eye infection and a fractured hand. His first year was the lockout season as well, he only missed two games in total that year so his career is 72 is not really saying much.

Also worth noting that Pop rests his starters from time to time, so missed games don't necessarily mean injury.

[KobesScarf]

Kawhi Irving is the better ball handler, better outside shooter, better penetrator, equal shot creator and significantly better defender. The only thing Kobe has over Kawhi Irving is post game and footwork, but Kawhi has a pretty good post game himself. Not close for me.

- Kobe has athleticism over Kawhi Irving too, but the usual benefits of athleticism don't give Kobe the edge here (Defense, penetration)

Kobe is a better rebounder, passer, finisher and shooter. Also better endurance.

Kobe absolutely is not a better rebounder than Kawhi. Kobe's career high TRB% is 9.3, Kawhi's career low TRB% is 11.1.

If Kobe has an edge on passing, it's a slight one at best. Kyrie has a better AST/TO ratio, you can give an asterisk to Kobe because of his volume scoring that resulted in more turnovers but it's a slight advantage. Kawhi Irving would command way more attention than Kyrie Irving by himself does, so that's likely to increase his assist numbers as well.

Kobe absolutely is not a better shooter from downtown. On similar volume, Kobe's career high 3PT% was %38.3 and he mostly wandered around the %34-35 range, while Kyrie has hit %40 twice and %39 once in his five year career. Kawhi hit %44 from downtown on similar volume this past season. Kobe might be a better shooter from mid-range, but that's something Kawhi also excels at, and Kyrie's added ball skills likely gives him more wide open opportunities from there.

Kyrie is injury prone but Kawhi isn't. His biggest injury was related to his eye, hardly has anything to do with endurance.

Kobe's not a better uncontested 3 point shooter but he's equal or better shooting anything else. I guess you can argue rebounding is equal Kawhi plays minutes at the 4 vs Kobe who plays strictly the 2. Assist numbers don't do Kobe's passing justice he's much better than Kyrie

Not including the strike year togetherKawhi and Kyrie average only 65 games and 33 minutes VS Kobe for a decade+ averaged about 77 games and 39 minutes.

[E-Balla]

Kobe absolutely is not a better rebounder than Kawhi. Kobe's career high TRB% is 9.3, Kawhi's career low TRB% is 11.1.

If Kobe has an edge on passing, it's a slight one at best. Kyrie has a better AST/TO ratio, you can give an asterisk to Kobe because of his volume scoring that resulted in more turnovers but it's a slight advantage. Kawhi Irving would command way more attention than Kyrie Irving by himself does, so that's likely to increase his assist numbers as well.

Kobe absolutely is not a better shooter from downtown. On similar volume, Kobe's career high 3PT% was %38.3 and he mostly wandered around the %34-35 range, while Kyrie has hit %40 twice and %39 once in his five year career. Kawhi hit %44 from downtown on similar volume this past season. Kobe might be a better shooter from mid-range, but that's something Kawhi also excels at, and Kyrie's added ball skills likely gives him more wide open opportunities from there.

Kyrie is injury prone but Kawhi isn't. His biggest injury was related to his eye, hardly has anything to do with endurance.

His career high in games played is 72 and he plays 65 games a year in average. He's definitely injury prone.

None of his injuries indicate a long term endurance problem. He missed the bulk of his games due to an eye infection and a fractured hand. His first year was the lockout season as well, he only missed two games in total that year so his career is 72 is not really saying much.

Also worth noting that Pop rests his starters from time to time, so missed games don't necessarily mean injury.

He still played only 1500ish minutes in the lockout year that's why he didn't get hurt. You can say his injuries don't indicate a long term endurance problem but when you're missing 17 game a year since you've become a starter despite not playing a lot when you are actually playing that's an issue. And Pop rests his starters but that's not why Kawhi has only played 70 games once and you know this. He's injury prone.

[Senior]

I think Kobe gets the durability edge, even though Kawhi's injuries are generally unrelated he's still forced to miss games. He also has the luxury of being able to take his time to return since he wasn't as relied on as Kobe on the title contender Laker teams. In Kobe's 5 best seasons he played 77+ games each time. Kyrie's career high is 75.

Think Kawhi Irving gets the shooting edge, although it's hard to directly compare percentages.

I would still give Kobe the playmaking edge. Not all assists are equal, and the numbers aren't necessarily representative of playmaking ability because of the nature of the assists, the system the players are in, etc. That said, Kawhi Irving is probably a more willing playmaker game to game.

Kawhi's defense gives his hybrid the edge although Kobe's playoff defense closes the gap a bit.

Overall I'd give the nod to Kawhi Irving, although I think it's funny that we had a peak Kawhi vs peak Kobe thread and some people took peak Kawhi. Now we're giving him Kyrie

[KobesScarf]

I really don't see how you can call Kawhi/Kyrie a better shooter than Kobe

[freewhitemoon]

Kyrie himself is a better shooter than Kobe. He's among the best 2 or 3 off the dribble shooters in the league after Curry

[KobesScarf]

Kyrie himself is a better shooter than Kobe. He's among the best 2 or 3 off the dribble shooters in the league after Curry

Kyrie is a maybe better uncontested 3 point shooter and thats it. FT shooting is equal and Kobe is superior everywhere else.

[INKtastic]

Kyrie himself is a better shooter than Kobe. He's among the best 2 or 3 off the dribble shooters in the league after Curry

Kyrie is a maybe better uncontested 3 point shooter and thats it. FT shooting is equal and Kobe is superior everywhere else.

Kyrie is a better shooter from 10 feet out. He's also statistically vastly better in clutch time

[KobesScarf]

Kyrie himself is a better shooter than Kobe. He's among the best 2 or 3 off the dribble shooters in the league after Curry

Kyrie is a maybe better uncontested 3 point shooter and thats it. FT shooting is equal and Kobe is superior everywhere else.

Kyrie is a better shooter from 10 feet out. He's also statistically vastly better in clutch time

Anything to back that up? Comparing "clutch data" when Kyrie has only played 2 years worth of meaningful basketball games is also silly.

[INKtastic]

Kyrie is a maybe better uncontested 3 point shooter and thats it. FT shooting is equal and Kobe is superior everywhere else.

Kyrie is a better shooter from 10 feet out. He's also statistically vastly better in clutch time

Anything to back that up? Comparing "clutch data" when Kyrie has only played 2 years worth of meaningful basketball games is also silly.

player shooting stats on basketball reference

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html

Kyrie's last 2 years from 16 to <3 are vastly better than anything Kobe ever did. And this past year from 10-16 he was better than all but 1 of Kobe's seasons. He's also vastly better from beyond 3.

And Kyrie's has been a top 12 clutch time scorer every year he's been in the league, including leading the league his first two seasons.

[KobesScarf]

You can't compare Kyries shooting numbers from before 2015, those were meaningless games. So in 2015 he shot 42% from 10-16 in 2016 he shot 50% most of Kobe's prime seasons fall in between 42 and 50 that doesn't really tell me much. Kyrie also shoots a much higher % 16<3 which is indicative of the system, most of Kobe's shots from that range are highly contested fadeaways vs Kyrie pick and roll pull ups. Kyrie also gets a lot of uncontested transition 3s something Kobe's never really gotten much of.

[freewhitemoon]

You can't compare Kyries shooting numbers from before 2015, those were meaningless games. So in 2015 he shot 42% from 10-16 in 2016 he shot 50% most of Kobe's prime seasons fall in between 42 and 50 that doesn't really tell me much. Kyrie also shoots a much higher % 16<3 which is indicative of the system, most of Kobe's shots from that range are highly contested fadeaways vs Kyrie pick and roll pull ups. Kyrie also gets a lot of uncontested transition 3s something Kobe's never really gotten much of.

by that logic not even Curry is a better shooter than Kobe

[KobesScarf]

You can't compare Kyries shooting numbers from before 2015, those were meaningless games. So in 2015 he shot 42% from 10-16 in 2016 he shot 50% most of Kobe's prime seasons fall in between 42 and 50 that doesn't really tell me much. Kyrie also shoots a much higher % 16<3 which is indicative of the system, most of Kobe's shots from that range are highly contested fadeaways vs Kyrie pick and roll pull ups. Kyrie also gets a lot of uncontested transition 3s something Kobe's never really gotten much of.

by that logic not even Curry is a better shooter than Kobe

It depends on how you quantify shooting ability. For me Jordan, Kobe and Barry are the best shooters ever.

[SlowPaced]

You can't compare Kyries shooting numbers from before 2015, those were meaningless games. So in 2015 he shot 42% from 10-16 in 2016 he shot 50% most of Kobe's prime seasons fall in between 42 and 50 that doesn't really tell me much. Kyrie also shoots a much higher % 16<3 which is indicative of the system, most of Kobe's shots from that range are highly contested fadeaways vs Kyrie pick and roll pull ups. Kyrie also gets a lot of uncontested transition 3s something Kobe's never really gotten much of.

by that logic not even Curry is a better shooter than Kobe

It depends on how you quantify shooting ability. For me Jordan, Kobe and Barry are the best shooters ever.

Good lord.

[INKtastic]

You can't compare Kyries shooting numbers from before 2015, those were meaningless games. So in 2015 he shot 42% from 10-16 in 2016 he shot 50% most of Kobe's prime seasons fall in between 42 and 50 that doesn't really tell me much. Kyrie also shoots a much higher % 16<3 which is indicative of the system, most of Kobe's shots from that range are highly contested fadeaways vs Kyrie pick and roll pull ups. Kyrie also gets a lot of uncontested transition 3s something Kobe's never really gotten much of.

It sounds like you don't watch Kyrie play, but most of Kyrie's mid range shots are unassisted (see the same links as before), he creates them with his insane handles. Now you're criticizing him for the ability to make those shots look easy. Kobe was assisted a significantly higher percentage of his shots.