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Better Peak....

Peak Wade, that guy was amazing. He could rip defenses apart as well as any one in the history of the game, and he could be a great playmaker too. Wade's motor during this period made him a pleasure to watch.

A bit off topic, but peak Wade reminds of current Westbrook, or how he'll look this upcoming season.

Peak Wade easily especially if you're taxed with Lebron not having a jumper at all.

Wade slightly if you go by 2016 Lebron, if we go by what we expect from 2017 Lebron, then it still has to be Wade.

I'd take 2016 Lebron over any Wade. But expect to have '17 Lebron behind peak Wade, so it's pretty dang close.

I have '16 Lebron as his 5th best season after 09, 10, 12, 13. Just edging out '14.

Peak Wade by a good margin

Regular Season - Wade easily
Playoffs - Lebron easily

Peak D-Wade is my favorite player of all time but I'll take LeBron's domination across the board. RS is definitely Wade but PS is LeBron.

If playoffs are included then James. He dominated offensively AND defensively this playoffs and was probably playing like a +13 to +15 RPM player this playoffs.

Interestingly, he had no jumper and shot FTs like crap but still wound up with the third highest ORPM this season which speaks to his playmaking capability and gravity on offense.

homecourtloss wrote:If playoffs are included then James. He dominated offensively AND defensively this playoffs and was probably playing like a +13 to +15 RPM player this playoffs.

Interestingly, he had no jumper and shot FTs like crap but still wound up with the third highest ORPM this season which speaks to his playmaking capability and gravity on offense.

LeBron was a 13 BPM in the playoffs, and I think his RPM was actually closer to 15-18 in this post-season, which is absolutely GOAT level.
Another point to add is he just isn't getting the foul calls that other players would get. You would think that his FTR would increase ass his shot distance decreases, but the opposite is true. He is taking more shots near the rim, but his FTR is going down. He took nearly 50% of his shots at the rim yet had a career low FTR.

James, and it wasn't really that difficult for me. I'm surprised how many people are going with Wade. I think players with shorter primes get their peaks overrated around here (and their longevity underrated) while players who have been consistently great for a long time see their peaks underrated (CP3 is another example of this). Plug this version of LeBron in on the 2006 or 2009 Heat and I think you'd see largely the same results. Can't say the same about putting peak Wade on the 2016 Cavs.

Lest people forget LeBron still posted a 9+ BPM in the RS, a 13+ BPM in the postseason, and a near-10 RPM on the season. He didn't just come alive in the Finals.

Colbinii wrote:

homecourtloss wrote:If playoffs are included then James. He dominated offensively AND defensively this playoffs and was probably playing like a +13 to +15 RPM player this playoffs.

Interestingly, he had no jumper and shot FTs like crap but still wound up with the third highest ORPM this season which speaks to his playmaking capability and gravity on offense.

LeBron was a 13 BPM in the playoffs, and I think his RPM was actually closer to 15-18 in this post-season, which is absolutely GOAT level.
Another point to add is he just isn't getting the foul calls that other players would get. You would think that his FTR would increase ass his shot distance decreases, but the opposite is true. He is taking more shots near the rim, but his FTR is going down. He took nearly 50% of his shots at the rim yet had a career low FTR.

I just looked it up and saw that he took a whopping 46% of his shots from 0-3 feet, 7% higher than in any other of his seasons yet his FTR was the second lowest in his career with only his rookie season rating lower. Had he gotten his median FTR of .432, then he would have had a regular season in which he probably shot 52%+, TS% of 61%+, BPM approaching 10, ws/48 over .250, ORTG of 118+, PER approaching 29, etc. Crazy.

Man this is impossible. Peak Wade (2006-2011ish) is a top 6 or seven player ever. I was watching game footage of him and he was as agile as prime Derrick Rose, as fast as Russell Westbrook and substantially bigger and somehow more nimble than either of them. Also, he played way more in control than Westbrook and was a much better halfcourt scorer at the end of games. He could also pass so naturally he was legitimately a better point guard than almost any PG playing today I'd say. His court vision and ability to pass out of shots was amazing. Peak Wade is better than 2014 Durant because I don't think any defender could give him a hard time, and I never saw him really look rattled. He dominated his matchups with Kobe. What also made peak wade so good was his inexhaustible motor. He was all over the court like westbrook, except he was an elite defender and I think the greatest or second greatest shot blocking guard ever. Wade had the best qualities of Kobe (footwork, post moves, one-on-one arsenal, 80% of kobe's midrange ability), Westbrook/Rose (Agility/Speed/Athleticism) and even more strength than any of those guys. He was MJ with just a solid midrange jumper instead of a GOAT one. Peak Wade was unstoppable and I think if he played more games, his bad Heat teams would've still won 50 games most years. Peak Wade had the athleticism, composure and skillset to be a top 5 player ever, and was legitimately probably the second greatest guard ever.

With that in mind, i say it's a draw between he and 2016 LeBron. I keep thinking LeBron is past his prime, but I'm honestly not sure LeBron was capable of finals like the one he just had seven years ago. Usually when I hear things like "mental fortitude" i call BS, but for LeBron it's just true; he just has the composure, IQ and confidence that makes up for whatever he's lost to father time. Also, LeBron is arguably still the league's best all around athlete at age 31, and he's probably the game's best floor manager with Chris Paul, and he's also still an All NBA level defender whenever he turns it on, and he can still get 25 ppg 7 assists and 6 rebounds in 35 minutes a game on a 58TS%. Curry and Durant might outplay LeBron during the regular season, but when the playoffs come around, LeBron will do what he's done since 2012: Remind everyone that he is unquestionably the game's best player. Peak Wade = 2016 LeBron though, taking into consideration regular season.

Wow, tough one. I have to go with peak Wade, because he's just a better night-to-night offensive player. Pretty much equal as a passer, better midrange, elite finishing, can run your offense and volume score at the same time. A monster of an offensive creator. 2016 Lebron showed that he can still dial up the defense to levels that Wade never could when it really matters, but I don't think those few games outweigh what the nightly offensive dominance of Wade, plus being a more-than-capable defender in his own right. Remember, some people actually argued for 2009 Wade as the MVP over 2009 Lebron, and it wasn't an insane case to make. He was right up there.

yoyoboy wrote:James, and it wasn't really that difficult for me. I'm surprised how many people are going with Wade. I think players with shorter primes get their peaks overrated around here (and their longevity underrated) while players who have been consistently great for a long time see their peaks underrated (CP3 is another example of this). Plug this version of LeBron in on the 2006 or 2009 Heat and I think you'd see largely the same results. Can't say the same about putting peak Wade on the 2016 Cavs.

Lest people forget LeBron still posted a 9+ BPM in the RS, a 13+ BPM in the postseason, and a near-10 RPM on the season. He didn't just come alive in the Finals.

Not against the teams Wade had to play in 2006.

Colbinii wrote:

homecourtloss wrote:If playoffs are included then James. He dominated offensively AND defensively this playoffs and was probably playing like a +13 to +15 RPM player this playoffs.

Interestingly, he had no jumper and shot FTs like crap but still wound up with the third highest ORPM this season which speaks to his playmaking capability and gravity on offense.

LeBron was a 13 BPM in the playoffs, and I think his RPM was actually closer to 15-18 in this post-season, which is absolutely GOAT level.
Another point to add is he just isn't getting the foul calls that other players would get. You would think that his FTR would increase ass his shot distance decreases, but the opposite is true. He is taking more shots near the rim, but his FTR is going down. He took nearly 50% of his shots at the rim yet had a career low FTR.

True. But i at least commend the refs for allowing the same physicality to be played on Curry in the finals

For me playoffs is about 80% of the elevation so current lebron is peak lebron as he just had his best post season. I take that over peak wade.