Which center would be most effective offensively against peak Russell in a playoff series?

[Quotatious]

I think it could be an interesting discussion - which center would be most effective against peak Bill Russell in a playoff series? Assume all the other centers are at their peaks, too.

The reason I'm using Russell as a measuring stick here is that he's widely considered the best defender in NBA history (and rightfully so).

*The poll allows me to add only 10 options, so if you think it's someone else, please just say so in a post.

**Tim Duncan played majority of his minutes at power forward during his peak, so he's not in the discussion here.

[SkyHookFTW]

I think it depends on what era rules the game is played. If Shaq was allowed to play bully ball I'd say Shaq, but bully ball notwithstanding, Kareem I believe is the best choice, as he had size and a midrange game that was effective. I don't see Russell blocking the skyhook and Kareem was mobile enough to make Russell work.

Moses vs. Russell would be a blast to watch though. Although Wilt lit him up a few times badly he didn't have the midrange of Kareem. Kareem is the man.

[MyUniBroDavis]

I'm going with shaq

Thurmond on Shaquille -


“Wilt was a giant. But 60 percent of his points came on fadeaways. He was a powerful man who didn't always play that way,” said Thurmond, who does community-relations work for the Warriors and owns a barbecue restaurant in San Francisco.

“Shaquille O'Neal, he's a different player. He presents a problem none of us had to face.

“He's more than 300 pounds, with speed, power and quickness. Most of the big guys I played against were lumbering types, nothing like Shaquille. I just feel that at my 6-11, 235, I would have had a problem with him. He moves people out of the way, dislodges them. Wilt was more finesse.

“How could I have had a solution for Shaquille? He's 100 pounds heavier than me.”


As one on one defenders, Thurmond was comparable, or possibly even better than Russell imo.

I disagree on Kareem, though my knowledge on that era is limited, I remember that old wilt and Thurmond generally played him really well. I feel Russell would do a job similar to thurmond

[ThaRegul8r]

As one on one defenders, Thurmond was comparable, or possibly even better than Russell imo.

Thurmond was the better one-on-one defender, and Russell the better overall defender.

I disagree on Kareem, though my knowledge on that era is limited, I remember that old wilt and Thurmond generally played him really well. I feel Russell would do a job similar to thurmond

Styles make fights. Wilt and Thurmond had different body types than Russell and different strengths. Both Wilt and Nate were bigger and stronger than Russell, and both were stronger than Kareem.

[juice4080]

id like to mention bill walton here.....he's the only ATG center who matches russell profile stylistically being a cerebral player with loads of intangibles

[mischievous]

Peak shaq would throw him around like a ragdoll.

[penbeast0]

Although mischievous grossly overstates the case, the answer, as it is for virtually any question about which center would be the most effective offensively against pretty much anyone, is Shaq.

[eminence]

Not individually exactly, but throw Dirk at center ('04 style) vs Russell, and I think that causes major problems for a Russell led team. He can no longer dominate the paint, and doesn't have the offense to punish Dirk either.

[Samurai]

I think it depends on what era rules the game is played. If Shaq was allowed to play bully ball I'd say Shaq, but bully ball notwithstanding, Kareem I believe is the best choice, as he had size and a midrange game that was effective. I don't see Russell blocking the skyhook and Kareem was mobile enough to make Russell work.

Moses vs. Russell would be a blast to watch though. Although Wilt lit him up a few times badly he didn't have the midrange of Kareem. Kareem is the man.

I agree that it depends on which era they are playing in. If they are playing in Shaq's era, I would take Shaq. But I think he would be less effective if they were playing in Russell's era. I mean seriously, could anyone really imagine Shaq playing bully ball with Earl Strom on the court?? Given time, could Shaq adjust? I think so. Since I think the top players of Russell's era could adjust to later eras given sufficient time, I see no reason why the stars of later eras could not also adjust. To me that street runs both ways. That being said, I'm not convinced Russell would be as dominant playing in today's style. Likewise, I am not convinced Shaq would be as dominant if he weren't able to fully exploit his biggest strengths. Playing in 2000, I'd give the edge to Shaq, which does not mean I am saying Russell "would be lousy". Playing in 1965, I'd give the edge to Russell, which similarly does not mean I am saying Shaq "would be lousy".

[Quotatious]

id like to mention bill walton here.....he's the only ATG center who matches russell profile stylistically being a cerebral player with loads of intangibles

Walton was a mediocre scorer compared to those other guys, though. I'm asking who would be most effective offensively, so Walton's great passing alone isn't enough, compared to great scorers with just a bit worse passing ability, like Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem etc.

[Quotatious]

I think it depends on what era rules the game is played. If Shaq was allowed to play bully ball I'd say Shaq, but bully ball notwithstanding, Kareem I believe is the best choice, as he had size and a midrange game that was effective. I don't see Russell blocking the skyhook and Kareem was mobile enough to make Russell work.

Moses vs. Russell would be a blast to watch though. Although Wilt lit him up a few times badly he didn't have the midrange of Kareem. Kareem is the man.

How about Hakeem? I'm actually surprised he only has one vote here (it's not from me, by the way, I haven't voted here), considering how effective he was offensively against prime Robinson and Ewing in the playoffs. D-Rob might actually be the closest thing to Russell, defensively, and Olajuwon obliterated him...

[Blackfyre]

In what era the game is played ? Anyways, for me it's definitely O'neal and Kareem & Wilt as second and third. If it's played anywhere from 90's to 00's you better have somebody else on your team other than Russell to throw at him. I would take handful of centers over Russell to guard O'neal. He just doesn't have a chance against him. Horrible match-up. If I had somebody like Bogut & Russell on my team and I had to use only one against O'neal, I would put my faith on Bogut.

I think Russell is excellent player to throw at somebody like Hakeem or Duncan. He wouldn't shut them down, but he would fare against them as well as anybody in history (doesn't mean much against Hakeem, because in his prime he destroyed everyone he faced and D-Rob couldn't have been far off Russell defensively).

[tsherkin]

Tough call here for me between Kareem and Shaq. I think Diesel's FT shooting limits him to the point where he wouldn't be far different from Wilt with respect to what he could accomplish. Maybe the extra size differential matters enough and he just thrashes Russell, but having seen what O'neal could do against Ewing and Olajuwon and so forth, I'm inclined to say he'd be great but not incendiary. Kareem, on the other hand, would assassinate Russell individually.

What really matters more is the team around any one of these guys, anyway, barring Ewing, who isn't really in the discussion as a playoff performer with the rest. Robinson's a shade iffy as well, though him more because he didn't generally have the same upper bound than for being really BAD outright.

Yao is an interesting inclusion. He didn't really dominate a ton when he was here and had major impediments in several places as a result of his size. I don't think Russ would do a great job on him on first pass, but given how Yao wasn't a stunner handling when he got fronted, my second-pass look makes me wonder.

[juice4080]

id like to mention bill walton here.....he's the only ATG center who matches russell profile stylistically being a cerebral player with loads of intangibles

Walton was a mediocre scorer compared to those other guys, though. I'm asking who would be most effective offensively, so Walton's great passing alone isn't enough, compared to great scorers with just a bit worse passing ability, like Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem etc.

sorry i misread your question though im curious how a matchup between 2 similar players like russell and walton would have unfolded....the correct answer to your question is shaq obviously

[SkyHookFTW]

I think it depends on what era rules the game is played. If Shaq was allowed to play bully ball I'd say Shaq, but bully ball notwithstanding, Kareem I believe is the best choice, as he had size and a midrange game that was effective. I don't see Russell blocking the skyhook and Kareem was mobile enough to make Russell work.

Moses vs. Russell would be a blast to watch though. Although Wilt lit him up a few times badly he didn't have the midrange of Kareem. Kareem is the man.

How about Hakeem? I'm actually surprised he only has one vote here (it's not from me, by the way, I haven't voted here), considering how effective he was offensively against prime Robinson and Ewing in the playoffs. D-Rob might actually be the closest thing to Russell, defensively, and Olajuwon obliterated him...

Hakeem would be my second choice depending on the rules used.

[Hawk]

I think it depends on what era rules the game is played. If Shaq was allowed to play bully ball I'd say Shaq, but bully ball notwithstanding, Kareem I believe is the best choice, as he had size and a midrange game that was effective. I don't see Russell blocking the skyhook and Kareem was mobile enough to make Russell work.

Moses vs. Russell would be a blast to watch though. Although Wilt lit him up a few times badly he didn't have the midrange of Kareem. Kareem is the man.

How about Hakeem? I'm actually surprised he only has one vote here (it's not from me, by the way, I haven't voted here), considering how effective he was offensively against prime Robinson and Ewing in the playoffs. D-Rob might actually be the closest thing to Russell, defensively, and Olajuwon obliterated him...

I think Hakeem, Shaq and KAJ are the best choices here. Personally, I went with Shaq. It is true that Hakeem destroyed David in 1995 but during 42 RS games he struggled a lot more against him (21.9 on .44 FG%).

[FuShengTHEGreat]

I'd go with peak Hakeem. His ability to consistently face up from 15 -18 feet would negate Russells most valuable defensive attribute as a help/team/paint defender. Russell would have to constantly be drawn away from the basket and it'd become easier to score in the paint for teammates. I don't think Russell was the greatest man to man defender ever and Hakeem proved able to score against taller and even stronger C's than Russell h2h.

2nd would be Kareem. Russell wasn't as physically imposing as Wilt or Thurmond so imo he wouldn't be facing the same problem.

Shaq it depends on the era. If it's in the 60s then he'd fall to #3, but if it's the rules he played under during his 3peat years he'd be a clear #1 to me. Russell wasn't physically strong enough to enough slow much less contain or limit Shaq.

[Warspite]

Russell really didn't care about a player scoring on him as long as his team is out scoring the opponent. What Russell did care about was being out rebounded. He was much more upset about Wilt or Thurmond or Bellamy getting 30rebs than he was about Wilt or Bellamy dropping 30 or 40 on him.

Russells man to man defense doesn't wow me from the film that I have seen. His help defense however is legendary. Vs the Royals in the ECF game 5 he blocked 5 straight shots by 4 players in one possession. He switched on to Oscar and shut him down after his double teams were late and Oscar found the open man. IMHO his defense improves as he guards smaller players.

[RCM88x]

Shaq if played with today's rules, Kareem if played with 60s rules.

[JordansBulls]

Wilt averaged 28 ppg and 28 rpg for his career vs Russell so I don't think you going to do anything better than that.