Andrew Wiggins ceiling

[HeartBreakKid]

Mmmm

See, that's pretty much what I mean, why focus on his rebounding or if he's gonna be Carmelo/Durant or whatever. Rebounding is specially something that I don't think will help his game that much, so I find it odd that everyone wants to make that some massive weakness of his. He can impact the game so many ways other than his raw boxscore numbers, and he's improving steadily in many aspects already, even if he's not at many others yet.

I fully disagree that he doesn't project as a good playmaker, and I don't think assists numbers have much predictive value on that front. If he can run a pick'n'roll and get to the rim or pull up the way he's showing he can, it's a matter of time and experience for him to be able to pass the ball to the open man in those situations. Guys like Westbrook or Derozan showed similar lack of vision at first, but with that ability to get into the paint and break down defenses, it was always a matter of time for them to make use that skill.

And using all-time top 10 players as the standard to judge him (or anyone) seems very unreasonable, even if you fully bought into his high school hype. There's a world of possibilities between that and Rudy Gay 2.0

I don't get this world we live in where an SF neglects rebounding. Rebounding is something a forward is supposed to do, it has nothing to do with whether it "compliments his game" (I don't even get what that means, rebounding makes you a better player, so it would compliment his game, in what scenario is rebounding a detriment?).

[QRich3]

Mmmm

See, that's pretty much what I mean, why focus on his rebounding or if he's gonna be Carmelo/Durant or whatever. Rebounding is specially something that I don't think will help his game that much, so I find it odd that everyone wants to make that some massive weakness of his. He can impact the game so many ways other than his raw boxscore numbers, and he's improving steadily in many aspects already, even if he's not at many others yet.

I fully disagree that he doesn't project as a good playmaker, and I don't think assists numbers have much predictive value on that front. If he can run a pick'n'roll and get to the rim or pull up the way he's showing he can, it's a matter of time and experience for him to be able to pass the ball to the open man in those situations. Guys like Westbrook or Derozan showed similar lack of vision at first, but with that ability to get into the paint and break down defenses, it was always a matter of time for them to make use that skill.

And using all-time top 10 players as the standard to judge him (or anyone) seems very unreasonable, even if you fully bought into his high school hype. There's a world of possibilities between that and Rudy Gay 2.0

I don't get this world we live in where an SF neglects rebounding. Rebounding is something a forward is supposed to do, it has nothing to do with whether it "compliments his game" (I don't even get what that means, rebounding makes you a better player, so it would compliment his game, in what scenario is rebounding a detriment?).

Rebounding is a team thing, as long as the team does well, it doesn't really matter who's taking the rebounds. It's only valued this much individually because someone decided to put it in a boxscore, and for years and years it was one of the few things people could count from a player, but it's not essential at all for a forward to have volume rebounding numbers.

Wiggins is a beast in transition, so if I'm building a roster, I'm gonna try to take advantage of that and configure the roster in a way that someone else is crashing the glass while he mostly leaks out, because that offers more advantages to my offense than him padding his rebounding numbers does to my defense. I didn't use the word "compliment" btw, so maybe that's why you didn't understand it?

[tsherkin]

See, that's pretty much what I mean, why focus on his rebounding or if he's gonna be Carmelo/Durant or whatever. Rebounding is specially something that I don't think will help his game that much, so I find it odd that everyone wants to make that some massive weakness of him. He can impact the game so many ways other than his raw boxscore numbers, and he's improving steadily in many aspects already, even if he's not at many others yet.

I think the point made is that he's projecting to be only a scorer, and not good enough on defense or as a playmaker to match value with the superstars of the league. Scoring is only so important, and if you dont' offer anything else, than your overall utility is only so great. It means that his ceiling is only so high.

I fully disagree that he doesn't project as a good playmaker, and I don't think assists numbers have much predictive value on that front.

He isn't likely to. The guys who end up being really strong playmakers almost inevitably show it earlier on, and he already plays with guys who are better-suited to run the game than him. He won't be useless, for sure, but we're talking about ceiling here, and stuff like this matters.

If he can run a pick'n'roll and get to the rim or pull up the way he's showing he can, it's a matter of time and experience for him to be able to pass the ball to the open man in those situations. Guys like Westbrook or Derozan showed similar lack of vision at first

Yes and no. Demar took forever to learn about playmaking and is still wildly inconsistent and unintuitive. Westbrook was immediately a much more successful and valuable playmaker than Wiggins even projects to be, despite his vision issues, because he was a more natural penetrate-and-pitch playmaker.

And using all-time top 10 players as the standard to judge him seems very unreasonable, even if you fully bought into his high school hype. There's a world of possibilities between that and Rudy Gay 2.0

I mean, no, to your first statement. There are specifically such comparisons in this very thread, so it is directly relevant to discuss such things about Wiggins and his potential. You're right, there are levels between Rudy Gay and a top 10 ATG player for sure, but when people say "yeah, he's got really strong potential scorer, but he doesn't do too much else," which is mostly true, it does create a frame of reference for where his ceiling appears to be at this time.

[QRich3]

I fully disagree that he doesn't project as a good playmaker, and I don't think assists numbers have much predictive value on that front.

He isn't likely to. The guys who end up being really strong playmakers almost inevitably show it earlier on, and he already plays with guys who are better-suited to run the game than him. He won't be useless, for sure, but we're talking about ceiling here, and stuff like this matters.

If he can run a pick'n'roll and get to the rim or pull up the way he's showing he can, it's a matter of time and experience for him to be able to pass the ball to the open man in those situations. Guys like Westbrook or Derozan showed similar lack of vision at first

Yes and no. Demar took forever to learn about playmaking and is still wildly inconsistent and unintuitive. Westbrook was immediately a much more successful and valuable playmaker than Wiggins even projects to be, despite his vision issues, because he was a more natural penetrate-and-pitch playmaker.

Well that's what I'm saying, he's showing several indicatives that he is indeed likely to, and if you don't see them you're not paying enough attention. It doesn't really matter who he's playing with right now either, but I mentioned before that they're already running crunch time offense through him, right now.

He's not gonna be the playmaker Westbrook is, but he doesn't need to, cause he's 5 inches taller and 6 inches longer, and has a different skillset. But I guess you missed the point I was trying to make, he doesn't need to be an exact comparison to either of those players, but when you see a guy with the athleticism and skill to get to the rim at will and break down defenses with ease, and the guy has a good feel for the game generally, and good work ethic, his playmaking will always get there. To what degree, we'll have to see, but stopping his ceiling at being a one dimensional scorer is being purposely myopic.

[Texas Chuck]

Bad sign:

Read on Twitter

Everyone knows when your big hustles out and makes the defensive play and then runs down the floor you give him the ball for the bucket.

Clearly a low-IQ player.

[totallystoked]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this kid can be as good as he wants to be.

He's only 21 and he's already averaging 27 ppg. What more do you want? Should he be averaging a triple double as the equivalent of a college junior?

He'll be a multi year all nba player. Just kick back and watch him develop into one of the best players in the game. It's just a game, enjoy.

[XTC]

35 points tonight. He has just been on fire lately

[Piecake]

35 points tonight. He has just been on fire lately

He also had a 'complete' game.

10 boards, 4 assists and a steal

[Dr Positivity]

His jumpshooting numbers are pretty hot right now so we'll see where he is in a few months, but his chance to have a Melo like career looks pretty good

[Zeitgeister]

I originally thought he'd be around a 22-24 ppg scorer in his prime but if this early season is any indication, that may have been too conservative. Obviously its very early and he's shooting out of his mind from 3, but his three point shot may be legit now, maybe 35% or greater but we'll need a greater sample size to be sure.

[Quotatious]

Just as Pierce's career is ending, I just found a new favorite player. Perfect timing. Love watching the kid play. I'm fully aware of his weaknesses, but he's so much fun to watch and has so much room to grow, considering his age and athleticism.

[r0drig0lac]

superstar ceiling

[Colbinii]

Just as Pierce's career is ending, I just found a new favorite player. Perfect timing. Love watching the kid play. I'm fully aware of his weaknesses, but he's so much fun to watch and has so much room to grow, considering his age and athleticism.

Why you gotta bring up Pierce retiring??

He is showing signs of doing more than just scoring, and he is only...21.

[SlowPaced]

Love Wiggins' improvement this season. Big fan of the dude since his high school days. Sky seems to be the limit.

If that defensive potential comes to fruition, that's a perennial All-NBA player. If the all around production improves, that's a superstar.

[Woodsanity]

Like I said before. He is an amazing scorer. If he can fix those defensive flaws and be at least a decent defender he can be great.

If he remains a poor defender he will be one of those overrated guys who can score a lot but give ups just as much points on the other end. Now I am not even talking about being a slightly below average defender, he is really bad on the defensive end still.

He is still young though and he has the physical tools to be a good defender so its only a matter of experience hopefully.

[Ballerhogger]

Looking great. Another superstar wing coming a long .

[Pillendreher]

Read on Twitter

Wow. That's some company to be in.

If one lowers the minimum minutes played to 6000 over the first 3 seasons and looks at the last 20 seasons, it doesn't get better (sorted by BPM ascending)

[Narigo]

Michael Beasley??????

[Gibson22]

Well I was 18, okay?

[BK_2020]

Maple Derozan