2016/17 Player of the Year discussion thread

[lorak]

Marc Gasol has to be in the discussion.

How come? HE hasnt been the best on his team (Conley) and the Grizzlies are terrible offensively and defensively hes not their best defender either (Tony Allen).

Gasol is better than Conley and while Tony is still impressive on D, he isn't more impactfull here than Marc.

[RightToCensor]

The Rockets and Cavaliers have the same win total as of today. The excuse that a coasting Lebron James would win MVP because of his team success shouldn't fly.

[PCProductions]

Engelmann RPM has been updated:

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

[eminence]

Engelmann RPM has been updated:

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

CP3 with some breathing room at the top it seems. Butler at #2 down to Curry at #11 is a pretty darn tight pack.

Ariza is a guy who intrigues me being up that high, how do Rockets fans think he's been playing?

[clyde21]

Engelmann RPM has been updated:

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

CP3 with some breathing room at the top it seems. Butler at #2 down to Curry at #11 is a pretty darn tight pack.

Ariza is a guy who intrigues me being up that high, how do Rockets fans think he's been playing?

Yup - he's comfortably the MVP for me at this point.

[eminence]

Engelmann RPM has been updated:

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

CP3 with some breathing room at the top it seems. Butler at #2 down to Curry at #11 is a pretty darn tight pack.

Ariza is a guy who intrigues me being up that high, how do Rockets fans think he's been playing?

Yup - he's comfortably the MVP for me at this point.

My first thought was "Ariza as MVP, WTH?". Then I engaged my brain, and yeah, he's probably my pick so far as well.

[HeartBreakKid]

I was the thinking the other day that the rockets look real good when ariza is on the court.


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[RightToCensor]

I agree with you guys as well, Ariza should win MVP

[Colbinii]

I was the thinking the other day that the rockets look real good when ariza is on the court.


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The biggest thing about the Rockets is they close out games and find a way to win close games. To me it seperates talented teams and actually good teams.

[lorak]

With +10.6 Raptors so far have the best offense in league history. But I wonder who deserves more credit between Lowry and DeRozan?

[E-Balla]

With +10.6 Raptors so far have the best offense in league history. But I wonder who deserves more credit between Lowry and DeRozan?

Kylo hands down. He's out there shooting like Curry and that Pat-Kyle-Patterson trio has been amazing whenever they hit the floor.

[KD35Brah]

With +10.6 Raptors so far have the best offense in league history. But I wonder who deserves more credit between Lowry and DeRozan?

Easily Lowry.

[Dr Positivity]

Yes Lowry and Patterson are a poor man's Curry and Draymond, with Patterson as the best defender on the team and 3pt spacer at the PF position and their +/- when playing together dominates. Nogueira is 2nd on the team in RPM (31st, two spots ahead of Patterson) with 8.1 BPM and .202 WS/48 on too small a sample size to take to the bank yet but still impressive. Derozan has far greater argument to not be 2nd most valuable player on the team than to be 1st

[lorak]

Pop said he doesn't watch game tape on the opponent this time of year. "Except for the Rockets. Harden is ridiculous."

[SideshowBob]

GSW's big 3 of Klay/Dray/Curry are 3 of the top 4 in on court Net Rating this season (along with Patterson) at +16.3, +15.9, and +15.0. Last season those 3 were the top 3 among players with at least 1000 MP.

Noticeably, Dray and Steph are down 3 and 2 points respectively, but Klay is up a point and leading the league. Iggy is among the top ten again and GSW's performance with him on court is virtually identical.

GSW with Durant on the floor has been a +13.8 team, which is 2.1 pts/100 better than OKC was last year with him on the floor.

The 2017 Cavaliers, despite being a team 4.5 SRS points weaker than GS (and GS will go higher, IMO), are nearly matching the Warrior's starters performance with Lebron on the floor (+14.5).

Ross/Patterson/Lowry are all among the top 11, but Derozan lags behind, with clear separation from that group at +7.0.

Golden State's new death lineup (Green/Iggy/Durant/Klay/Curry) so far has not performed up to the standard of 2016, instead performing at about the level of the 2015 one (w/Barnes).

2015: 116.1 ORTG, 92.9 DRTG, +23.3 Net
2016: 143.3 ORTG, 99.0 DRTG, +44.3 Net
2017: 125.5 ORTG, 98.3 DRTG, +27.2 Net

Obviously, most of the season has yet to be played, however I do not believe they will touch last year's heights. Through 32 games, replacing Barnes with Durant in this lineup has not produced better performance. Logically, the conclusion must be one or a combination of the following:

Durant does not (yet) fit ideally with this lineup to the degree that Barnes did
One or more than one of Curry/Dray/Klay/Iggy has declined
Durant has declined to the point of being worse than Barnes
The SBDS this season has faced significantly stronger defenses than they did last year

First point seems fair to me this early in the season. Things don't click instantly and its not like the results have been poor by any measure.

Second point is also fair; its easy to point at Iggy but I also feel like I am observing a Curry regression (he has not been the same kind of threat off the dribble that he was last season).

Third point is most obviously untrue - Durant has looked fantastic.

Fourth point is highly unlikely. I could check to see the defensive SOS of the 16 and 17 teams, but I doubt I'd find anything to of significance support the notion that 17 has faced tougher opponents on that end.

-----

Also, on a separate but related note, GS is now the league's best defensive team. However, they are only a -4.5, weaker than the 16 Hawks (-5.0) and 16 Spurs (-7.4).

[SideshowBob]

Also, I'm sure it's been said, but Russell Westbrook is simultaneously putting up the highest USG% and AST% in NBA history.

[eminence]

Got our weekly RPM update from JE. Couple observations.

-CP3 maintaining the gap over the field.
-Gobert opening a small lead for DRPM (though I'm still not sure how I feel about the separation into offense/defense)
-Draymond keeping his lead for the GS crew, which I'd guess is even larger in RAPM
-I want Hill back so bad (Thursday maybe!)
-Ariza/Porter/KCP looking like the 3&D stars of the year.

[RSCD3_]

GSW's big 3 of Klay/Dray/Curry are 3 of the top 4 in on court Net Rating this season (along with Patterson) at +16.3, +15.9, and +15.0. Last season those 3 were the top 3 among players with at least 1000 MP.

Noticeably, Dray and Steph are down 3 and 2 points respectively, but Klay is up a point and leading the league. Iggy is among the top ten again and GSW's performance with him on court is virtually identical.

GSW with Durant on the floor has been a +13.8 team, which is 2.1 pts/100 better than OKC was last year with him on the floor.

The 2017 Cavaliers, despite being a team 4.5 SRS points weaker than GS (and GS will go higher, IMO), are nearly matching the Warrior's starters performance with Lebron on the floor (+14.5).

Ross/Patterson/Lowry are all among the top 11, but Derozan lags behind, with clear separation from that group at +7.0.

Golden State's new death lineup (Green/Iggy/Durant/Klay/Curry) so far has not performed up to the standard of 2016, instead performing at about the level of the 2015 one (w/Barnes).

2015: 116.1 ORTG, 92.9 DRTG, +23.3 Net
2016: 143.3 ORTG, 99.0 DRTG, +44.3 Net
2017: 125.5 ORTG, 98.3 DRTG, +27.2 Net

Obviously, most of the season has yet to be played, however I do not believe they will touch last year's heights. Through 32 games, replacing Barnes with Durant in this lineup has not produced better performance. Logically, the conclusion must be one or a combination of the following:

Durant does not (yet) fit ideally with this lineup to the degree that Barnes did
One or more than one of Curry/Dray/Klay/Iggy has declined
Durant has declined to the point of being worse than Barnes
The SBDS this season has faced significantly stronger defenses than they did last year

First point seems fair to me this early in the season. Things don't click instantly and its not like the results have been poor by any measure.

Second point is also fair; its easy to point at Iggy but I also feel like I am observing a Curry regression (he has not been the same kind of threat off the dribble that he was last season).

Third point is most obviously untrue - Durant has looked fantastic.

Fourth point is highly unlikely. I could check to see the defensive SOS of the 16 and 17 teams, but I doubt I'd find anything to of significance support the notion that 17 has faced tougher opponents on that end.

-----

Also, on a separate but related note, GS is now the league's best defensive team. However, they are only a -4.5, weaker than the 16 Hawks (-5.0) and 16 Spurs (-7.4).

What about the added possibility that team defenses have adjusted a bit and found ways to limit the ORTG to only 120's


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[Prez]

Got our weekly RPM update from JE. Couple observations.

-CP3 maintaining the gap over the field.
-Gobert opening a small lead for DRPM (though I'm still not sure how I feel about the separation into offense/defense)
-Draymond keeping his lead for the GS crew, which I'd guess is even larger in RAPM
-I want Hill back so bad (Thursday maybe!)
-Ariza/Porter/KCP looking like the 3&D stars of the year.

- Giannis is a god

[eminence]

Got our weekly RPM update from JE. Couple observations.

-CP3 maintaining the gap over the field.
-Gobert opening a small lead for DRPM (though I'm still not sure how I feel about the separation into offense/defense)
-Draymond keeping his lead for the GS crew, which I'd guess is even larger in RAPM
-I want Hill back so bad (Thursday maybe!)
-Ariza/Porter/KCP looking like the 3&D stars of the year.

- Giannis is a god

That too!