Offense Only- Rank These 7 Players

[Matt15]

Rank these 7 players based on their offense only.

Kevin Durant
Chris Paul
Dwyane Wade
Kobe Bryant
Dirk Nowitzki
Steve Nash
Hakeem Olajuwon

[GSP]

For peak i have

Bird
Dirk
Nash
Kobe
Kd
Cp3
Wade
Hakeem

[Colbinii]

This is off the top of my head.

Bird
CP3
Dirk
KD
Nash
Wade
Hakeem
Kobe

[mischievous]

Primes or peak?

[Matt15]

Primes or peak?

Peak

[mischievous]

Primes or peak?

Peak

People had Bird on there, did you remove him? I would've definitely had him first as well.

If we include both regular and postseason, I'd probably go:

Kobe
Wade
Dirk
Kd
Nash
Cp3
Hakeem

But I think all except for Hakeem are pretty interchangeable though, so on a different day my list would probably look different.

[toodles23]

Peak offensive years only:

Nash ('05-'07)
Dirk ('08-'11)
Cp3 (anywhere from '08-'17)
KD ('13-'17)
Wade ('09)
Kobe ('06-'09)
Hakeem ('95)

[StepBackCrack]

Kevin might not be the best option to make your whole team offense look the best (like an all-time great PG would) but I think that he is the best offensive weapon on his own among these players. It's kinda hard for me to compare him offensively to someone like CP3 for example. Their offense is quite different. They play different positions after all. Is MJ a better offensive player than Magic? It's hard to tell because they play differently and both had a massive impact on offense. Similar case with KD/Dirk vs CP3/Nash I guess. I probably tend to prefer KD/Dirk-type offense to Nash/CP3-type offense. I think having that superstar that can get you a bucket at any time is pretty valuable in the playoffs. When the team needs you to create something on your own, you deliver. In any case, this is an interesting thread.

[Gus Fring]

As far as which player would give a team the best chance of having a good offense despite the players around him I would go:

Dirk - I think having a superstar big that could get you a bucket at anytime but could also stretch the floor out to 3 basically guarantees you a good offense. Dirk did that but took it to another level. Any average point guard who can run a pick and roll can succeed with Dirk because of how open the floor becomes.

CP3 - At his absolute peak he could score with anybody and he's always been a top 5 IQ player in the league. Only reason he's below Dirk is because of the specific offensive advantages Dirk can give you at the 4 on an average team.

Nash - Only reason he's below CP3 is because he wan't as great a scorer and he averaged slightly more turnovers over his career. I'd also argue Pauls prime has outlasted Nash's so far.

KD - Hyper efficient scorer and isolation creator. He's great I just don't think his scoring guarantees a good offense quite like having either CP3 or Nash.

Wade - I just think KD was a little better offensively at his peak.

Kobe - To me Kobe and Wade are extremely close. Only reason I put Wade over Kobe was because at his absolute peak he was a little more efficient and a little better of a creator.

Hakeem - I don't think he guarantees the same level of offense as these other guys.

[Gus Fring]

[Deleted]

[Colbinii]

Kevin might not be the best option to make your whole team offense look the best (like an all-time great PG would) but I think that he is the best offensive weapon on his own among these players. It's kinda hard for me to compare him offensively to someone like CP3 for example. Their offense is quite different. They play different positions after all. Is MJ a better offensive player than Magic? It's hard to tell because they play differently and both had a massive impact on offense. Similar case with KD/Dirk vs CP3/Nash I guess. I probably tend to prefer KD/Dirk-type offense to Nash/CP3-type offense. I think having that superstar that can get you a bucket at any time is pretty valuable in the playoffs. When the team needs you to create something on your own, you deliver. In any case, this is an interesting thread.

What makes Kevin Durant a better "offensive weapon" than Chris Paul in the post season?

Chris Paul, for his career in the post season (per 100 stats) scored 29.1 Points on 53 eFG% and a 58.4 TS%. Kevin Durant for his career has posted 35.8 points on 50.3 eFG% and a 57.5 TS%. Chris Paul has been a far better 3 point shooter, but gets to the line less (11 FTA for Durant to 7 FTA for CP3). There isn't a huge gap in scoring other than volume, which is only a difference of 4.5 FGA per 100. Durant scored his points while being assisted on 46.2% of his made shots. Paul, on the other hand, has been assisted on just 7.6% of his shots in the post season.

As for playmaking, this really isn't a contest. Chris Paul has put up 13 assists to just 3.8 turnovers, a 3.42 AST/TOV ratio. Kevin Durant on the other hand has a mere 4.6 assists to 4.2 turnovers, 1.10 AST/TOV ratio. In fact, Chris Paul peaked at 15.4 assists to just 2.5 turnovers; a ratio and volume that have never been done before or since then.

It is difficult to compare them, but when you actually look at what the players did in the post season, it is very clear to me who the better player is and who is more impactful. Yes, Durant has a massive impact with his off-ball play, but that is still overshadowed by the 6 foot guy who scores at an elite clip, provides playmaking at an all-time great level, and has full control of his team's offense.

[Colbinii]

As far as which player would give a team the best chance of having a good offense despite the players around him I would go:

Dirk - I think having a superstar that could get you a bucket at anytime but could also stretch the floor out to 3 basically guarantees you a good offense. Any average point guard who can run a pick and roll can succeed with Dirk because of how open the floor becomes.

CP3 - At his absolute peak he could score with anybody and he's always been a top 5 IQ player in the league. Only reason he's below Dirk is because of the specific offensive advantages Dirk can give you at the 4.

Nash - Only reason he's below CP3 is because he wan't as great a scorer and he averaged slightly more turnovers over his career. I'd also argue Pauls prime has outlasted Nash's so far.

KD - Hyper efficient scorer and isolation creator. He's great I just don't think his scoring guarantees a good offense quite like having either CP3 or Nash.

Wade - I just think KD was a little better offensively at his peak.

Kobe - To me Kobe and Wade are extremely close. Only reason I put Wade over Kobe was because at his absolute peak he was a little more efficient and a little better of a creator.

Hakeem - I don't think he guarantees the same level of offense as these other guys.

Such a good post you quoted yourself.

[feyki]

Nash
Dirk
CP3
Durant
Wade
Kobe
Hakeem

..

[Dr Spaceman]

Rank these 7 players based on their offense only.

Kevin Durant
Chris Paul
Dwyane Wade
Kobe Bryant
Dirk Nowitzki
Steve Nash
Hakeem Olajuwon

Nowitzki
Nash
Paul
Durant
Bryant
Wade
Olajuwon

I really could rank Nash number 1 here if I wanted to. In fact I would have done so definitely a little while ago. I'm realizing more and more though how much you have to narrow your criteria to see Nash in that light, and that that's maybe not the best way to think about things. At the end of the day, I really value Dirk's ability to score on his own more.

In a laboratory setting I would absolutely take Nash over Paul as well, but in real life it's pretty much of a push. Chris' slow, deliberate style definitely has worse offensive results, but similar/better basketball results and so I find it hard to separate the two.

Durant is a tier below IMO. Maybe the most portable here, but at the same time has clear exploitable flaws that lead him to falter in the postseason. He's a much superior decision maker to Kobe and so gets the edge.

Wade at his peak was probably the highest impact player here but at the same time by far the least portable. I just don't like the idea of a hyper ball-dominant guy who isn't a good shooter and can't play off the ball. Similar to Durant, has clear issues that get exposed by top playoff defenses (although health is a factor too) and Kobe really doesn't have such issues.

Olajuwon is last by a mile because that's just how the game works. Has an argument for best overall player though.

[Colbinii]

Nowitzki
Nash
Paul
Durant
Bryant
Wade
Olajuwon

Solid List

I really could rank Nash number 1 here if I wanted to. In fact I would have done so definitely a little while ago. I'm realizing more and more though how much you have to narrow your criteria to see Nash in that light, and that that's maybe not the best way to think about things. At the end of the day, I really value Dirk's ability to score on his own more.

Do you value Chris Paul's scoring over Nash's as well?

Also, the more research I have done and comparison, the more I have to re-evaluate how I view Nash. He was a very, very special player, and had an enormous impact on how the game has transitioned from post-hand checking. However, I see limitations on a team utilizing him to maximize offensive potential and maximizing a team's potential to win the Championship.

In a laboratory setting I would absolutely take Nash over Paul as well, but in real life it's pretty much of a push. Chris' slow, deliberate style definitely has worse offensive results, but similar/better basketball results and so I find it hard to separate the two.

Same here. Nash is one of the perfect players in theory. A Point Guard who can elevate a team to GOAT-like offenses and as a PG can be hid on defense easier than any other position. However, Chris Paul has proven to me that he is one of the best 20 players to ever play the game, a level I don't believe Nash is in.

Durant is a tier below IMO. Maybe the most portable here, but at the same time has clear exploitable flaws that lead him to falter in the postseason. He's a much superior decision maker to Kobe and so gets the edge.

This is one of the biggest factors with separating Kobe/Durant as offensive players. It is decision making, but above that, an ability to warp a defense without the ball.

Wade at his peak was probably the highest impact player here but at the same time by far the least portable. I just don't like the idea of a hyper ball-dominant guy who isn't a good shooter and can't play off the ball. Similar to Durant, has clear issues that get exposed by top playoff defenses (although health is a factor too) and Kobe really doesn't have such issues.

Wade was a very good player off-ball with LeBron. Do you think Wade lacked that ability in '09? I personally feel like he team didn't have another player to be a "2nd banana" so Wade was forced to carry a much larger burden on offense.

Olajuwon is last by a mile because that's just how the game works. Has an argument for best overall player though.

Funny enough but he is easily the best player out of these guys, but offensively I have to agree.

[GrayJM]

Nash
Kobe
Hakeem
Durant
Nowitzki
Wade
Paul

From the list left. If Bird was really on there he would be first.

[The-Power]

Nash
Kobe
Hakeem
Durant
Nowitzki
Wade
Paul

From the list left. If Bird was really on there he would be first.

What's the argument for Hakeem at #3? I'd like to hear where you're coming from there.

[GrayJM]

Nash
Kobe
Hakeem
Durant
Nowitzki
Wade
Paul

From the list left. If Bird was really on there he would be first.

What's the argument for Hakeem at #3? I'd like to hear where you're coming from there.

I'm not old enough to have seen him play, but from what I've read over the years of my fandom he was one of the greatest, most talented post players of all time. Just as dominant as these perimeter players we are comparing. I'm not qualified to really assess him, but I would think he would make the most dominant post offensive players today (Cousins, Howard et.) look silly.

[mischievous]

Wade at his peak was probably the highest impact player here but at the same time by far the least portable. I just don't like the idea of a hyper ball-dominant guy who isn't a good shooter and can't play off the ball. Similar to Durant, has clear issues that get exposed by top playoff defenses (although health is a factor too) and Kobe really doesn't have such issues.

.

Don't recall peak Wade ever getting exposed by top playoff defenses, in fact he usually obliterated them. Are we talking about Wade against the Spurs when he declined physically?

[Wall34]

Dirk
KD
CP3
Nash
Kobe
Wade
Hakeem