Why wasn't he Defensive Player of the Year?

[DoItALL9]

Are there any particular players that you believe should have won a Defensive Player of the Year Award (DPOY) in their career but never did? Are there any particular years that standout (analytical or eye test) for individual players over the actual winner? Some possibilities that come to mind:
*Tim Duncan – a number of years
*Bruce Bowen – a number of years
*Tony Allen – a number of years
LeBron – a number of years, maybe while in Miami in particular
Kobe – a number of years
Serge Ibaka - 2010/11, 2011/12, 2013/14 Defensive 1st team years
DeAndre Jordan - Def 1st team last two years (he's been very Tyson Chandler like who won once)
*Draymond Green – 2014-2015 finished 2nd to Kawhi who missed many games that season
Shawn Marion (The Matrix) - very good defensively throughout his career, surprisingly never Defensive 1st team even
Dwyane Wade – all time blocks leader among guards, his effort on this end has slid tremendously lately, consistency speaking
Avery Bradley - Def 1st team last year, very consistent
Rudy Gobert - Never been Defensive 1st team
PG13 - 2013/14 (Personally believe this guy and Kawhi are close to clones)
Jimmy Butler - Never Defensive 1st team but making a strong showing currently
Chris Paul – regularly a league leader in steals (guarding Durant in playoff "crunchtime" is a classic show of his defensive tenacity)
Andre Igoudala – a number of years
AK47 – 2005/06 Defensive 1st team
Doug Christie – 2002/03 Defensive 1st team
* - next to the names of players who were most deserving of having won one (at least)

[JordansBulls]

Only guy in reality is Tim Duncan from the list. Don't think Bowen nor Allen plays enough minutes for it. For me a wing shouldn't get it unless they are leading the league in some stats such as steals or blocks or getting steals and blocks that others may never have but they have to actually be a good to great defender as well. So with that in mind maybe Wade would qualify here.

[RightToCensor]

I'm forever sticking with the notion that Draymond was screwed out the award in 2015

[GSP]

Timmy shouldve won in 07 but other years were just so stacked with so many alltime great defenders that it was just bad luck more than Timmy deserved it but got shafted.

Whats really weird is how many times Bowen finished ahead of Timmy in Dpoy voting.

[giberish]

Really the only one with a case is Timmy. Draymond maybe, but I would have actually voted for Duncan in 2015 over either Kwahi (not enough minutes) or Draymond (Green was better by the relative standards of a stretch-4 vs a center but Duncan was better overall). In addition to several other years when Duncan could have won (keeping the Spurs defense good with Bonner and Blair as the 2nd and 3rd bigs).

Gobert certainly could get there - perhaps even this season - but hasn't been close yet.

Maybe Allen or Iggy was close a year or two, but some of the others??

[colts18]

Eaton not winning DPOY in 88 was a travesty.

[JordansBulls]

Eaton not winning DPOY in 88 was a travesty.

No it wasn't. Even if you added up his blocks and steals the total would be 4.2 while MJ would have had 4.8 total between the two. Only Hakeem rivals that. And considering MJ was the first with 250 steals and 100 blocks in a season it was a good choice (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&force%3Apos_is=1&c1stat=stl&c1comp=gt&c1val=250&c2stat=blk&c2comp=gt&c2val=100&c6mult=1.0&order_by=ws) If you want to complain then do so for guys who didn't have the stats of steals and blocks and who were perimeter players and weren't good defenders.

[RCM88x]

Eaton not winning DPOY in 88 was a travesty.

No it wasn't. Even if you added up his blocks and steals the total would be 4.2 while MJ would have had 4.8 total between the two. Only Hakeem rivals that. And considering MJ was the first with 250 steals and 100 blocks in a season it was a good choice (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&force%3Apos_is=1&c1stat=stl&c1comp=gt&c1val=250&c2stat=blk&c2comp=gt&c2val=100&c6mult=1.0&order_by=ws) If you want to complain then do so for guys who didn't have the stats of steals and blocks and who were perimeter players and weren't good defenders.

Blocks and steals don't make you a good defender. For example Draymond only averaged a combined 2.9 blocks and steals in 2016 and probably had the greatest defensive season for a non center in decsdes. Iggy only averaged 1.6 combined in 2015 and also had an elite defense season.

Just about anyone who is into analytics will tell you that blocks and steals mean nothing when it comes to defensive impact. Heck Curry often has led the league in steals but no one would ever call him ever an average defender.

However I've always felt the DPOY is completely nonsensical as people don't vote on anything concrete and just go based on reputation and narrative.

[JordansBulls]

Eaton not winning DPOY in 88 was a travesty.

No it wasn't. Even if you added up his blocks and steals the total would be 4.2 while MJ would have had 4.8 total between the two. Only Hakeem rivals that. And considering MJ was the first with 250 steals and 100 blocks in a season it was a good choice (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&force%3Apos_is=1&c1stat=stl&c1comp=gt&c1val=250&c2stat=blk&c2comp=gt&c2val=100&c6mult=1.0&order_by=ws) If you want to complain then do so for guys who didn't have the stats of steals and blocks and who were perimeter players and weren't good defenders.

Blocks and steals don't make you a good defender. For example Draymond only averaged a combined 2.9 blocks and steals in 2016 and probably had the greatest defensive season for a non center in decsdes. Iggy only averaged 1.6 combined in 2015 and also had an elite defense season.

Just about anyone who is into analytics will tell you that blocks and steals mean nothing when it comes to defensive impact. Heck Curry often has led the league in steals but no one would ever call him ever an average defender.

However I've always felt the DPOY is completely nonsensical as people don't vote on anything concrete and just go based on reputation and narrative.

I'm not saying they do make you a good defender I am saying for guys who are good defenders it means something.

Guys like MJ, Scottie, Payton, CP3, Stockton have led the league in steals and they were all great defenders. So for them it means something.
Guys like Iverson, Baron Davis, Curry, Magic have led in steals as well but they weren't know to be good defenders by any means.


Guys like Hakeem, Robinson, Dikembe have led in blocks and were all great defenders. So for them it means something
Whereas guys like Shawn Bradley, Marcus Camby have led in blocks as well but weren't really that good of defenders.

My point is that you can't say it is a travesty when a guy who is known as a great defender leads the league in steals or blocks and gets the award.

[dautjazz]

Gobert really has just started. He's in his 4th year.

Rookie - hardly played
Sophmore - minutes really went up after Kanter trade
Junior - first season where he had a legit case
Senior - current season, has a great chance

[SlowPaced]

Tim Duncan - Should've won in '01 and '07.
Bruce Bowen - Tim Duncan was always a better defender than he is, wouldn't make much sense.
Tony Allen - Not enough minutes.
LeBron James - Possibly '12. Was a pretty weak year in the race.
Kobe Bryant - Nope. Nowhere near a DPOY candidate.
Serge Ibaka: Possibly '12. Was a pretty weak year in the race.
DeAndre Jordan: There were better defenders in his best defensive seasons.
Draymond Green: Should've won in '15.
Shawn Marion: There were better defenders in his best defensive seasons.
Dwyane Wade: Nope. His best defensive year ('09) featured two dominant defensive performances. Not a DPOY level defender in other seasons.
Avery Bradley: Great perimeter defender but not impactful enough to be a DPOY candidate.
Rudy Gobert: Not enough games/minutes. This season is his first legit shot.
Paul George: Great perimeter defender but not impactful enough to be a DPOY candidate.
Jimmy Butler: Declined defensively after his offensive output went up. Had a better defender on his team in his best defensive year ('14).
Chris Paul: Great perimeter defender but not impactful enough to be a DPOY candidate.
Andre Iguodala: Possibly '12. Was a pretty weak year in the race.
Andrei Kirilenko: There were better defenders in his best defensive seasons.
Doug Christie: Great perimeter defender but not impactful enough to be a DPOY candidate.

So out of all you've listed, Tim Duncan and Draymond Green are the only ones who were robbed. '12 was anybody's award, really, could've gone to LeBron, Ibaka, Iggy, Dwight or Chandler and it went to Chandler. I would've given it to LeBron because it's more impressive to put on such a defensive performance while having such a big offensive burden.

[LivingLegend]

Marion not even being NBA 1st team is insanity.

Ibaka was a prime candidate but that was during the Dwight Howard era so he sort of got the shaft there.

LeBron never winning DPOY in the 3-5 seasons he could have been in the running for it is absolutely criminal. I still feel like they never gave it to him strictly because they didnt want to give 1 player the MVP and DPOY together in the same year.

[DoItALL9]

Mookie Blaylock is another player who should've been more highly considered a few times.

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[DoItALL9]

Tim Duncan - Should've won in '01 and '07.
Bruce Bowen - Tim Duncan was always a better defender than he is, wouldn't make much sense.
Tony Allen - Not enough minutes.
LeBron James - Possibly '12. Was a pretty weak year in the race.
Kobe Bryant - Nope. Nowhere near a DPOY candidate.
Serge Ibaka: Possibly '12. Was a pretty weak year in the race.
DeAndre Jordan: There were better defenders in his best defensive seasons.
Draymond Green: Should've won in '15.
Shawn Marion: There were better defenders in his best defensive seasons.
Dwyane Wade: Nope. His best defensive year ('09) featured two dominant defensive performances. Not a DPOY level defender in other seasons.
Avery Bradley: Great perimeter defender but not impactful enough to be a DPOY candidate.
Rudy Gobert: Not enough games/minutes. This season is his first legit shot.
Paul George: Great perimeter defender but not impactful enough to be a DPOY candidate.
Jimmy Butler: Declined defensively after his offensive output went up. Had a better defender on his team in his best defensive year ('14).
Chris Paul: Great perimeter defender but not impactful enough to be a DPOY candidate.
Andre Iguodala: Possibly '12. Was a pretty weak year in the race.
Andrei Kirilenko: There were better defenders in his best defensive seasons.
Doug Christie: Great perimeter defender but not impactful enough to be a DPOY candidate.

So out of all you've listed, Tim Duncan and Draymond Green are the only ones who were robbed. '12 was anybody's award, really, could've gone to LeBron, Ibaka, Iggy, Dwight or Chandler and it went to Chandler. I would've given it to LeBron because it's more impressive to put on such a defensive performance while having such a big offensive burden.

Thoughts on Shane Battier?

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[DoItALL9]

Marion not even being NBA 1st team is insanity.

Ibaka was a prime candidate but that was during the Dwight Howard era so he sort of got the shaft there.

LeBron never winning DPOY in the 3-5 seasons he could have been in the running for it is absolutely criminal. I still feel like they never gave it to him strictly because they didnt want to give 1 player the MVP and DPOY together in the same year.

I couldn't agree more on the Matrix.

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[ThaRegul8r]

Marion not even being NBA 1st team is insanity.

Marion never made the All-NBA Defensive Team period, let alone First Team defense. There was a lot of talk about it at one point and a campaign for him to make his first All-D team. I'd have to look at my notes as to what year it was.

[colts18]

I don't see why its crazy. What year was Marion better than Duncan and KG defensively?

[Pipp33]

Scottie Pippen would have been very close in 95-96 when he finished runner up to the Glove and he had a run of 4th, 2nd and 2nd voting from 1993 also

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Tim Duncan and Scottie Pippen are the only players I can think that would be candidates for the all time defence team that didn't win DPOY.

[Soulcatcher33]

There was no one more screwed over than Scottie Pippen in 95. He lost the two other best defenders on the team (jordan and grant) and STILL had the Bulls as the 2nd best defensive team in the league. They basically gave it to Mutombo because he averaged 4bpg when his impact was lower...it was a complete joke.