Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins

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As of right now who is better ?

Jabari Parker
26
81%
Andrew Wiggins
6
19%
 
Total votes: 32

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Rapcity_11
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Re: Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins 

Post#21 » by Rapcity_11 » Wed Feb 1, 2017 4:51 pm

E-Balla wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:
JiriWelsch wrote:
His court vision and his ability to always be in an appropriate position. He moves better off the ball; generally, his BBIQ is unambiguously higher than Wiggins'.

I need to qualify this and say that it is no knock to Wiggins. Parker has the potential to be a perennial all star.


I don't disagree with that, but does that equal lightyears better? Especially when you consider Wiggins' ability to create for himself.

Rudy Gay creates for himself too. That in itself is not what makes a player good. What you do to set up teammates with that ability is what makes you great. Plus Jabari can create for himself too. I just never saw the IQ with Wiggins at all though. I was hoping his defense could make up for it (like Paul George) but that's just not happening yet.


It doesn't make a player good...but if you take that skill away they get worse. So I don't really see your point.
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Re: Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins 

Post#22 » by HeartBreakKid » Wed Feb 1, 2017 4:59 pm

JLei wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
JLei wrote:
Parker is better right now. But I'm still taking Wiggins going forward. I'm just not passing up that body, that athleticism at that position when there are so many examples of players in his mold just keep making significant improvements year over year. He's 21.

At age 21
Demar Derozan 17-4-2
Jimmy Butler (senior in college)
Kawhi Leonard 12-6-2
Paul George 12-6-2

The athleticism and the body is similar to these guys. And honestly while his feel isn't amazing I really didn't get amazing feel for the game from the above players (maybe George) at 21 as well. Similar weaknesses at their respective ages (ball handling and consistent jumper). He's already a far advanced scorer than these guys at the same age. He's 21 and it's not like he hasn't gotten better as disappointing of a season/ lack of development (relative to expectation) he's had. He's a much better 3 pt shooter, his ball handling has improved and he's focused much more of his offense as a pick and roll ball handler. He was mostly a post up, isolation, cutter, spot up guy his first 2 years.

You continue developing these skills (improved shooting/ ball handling) and put him on even a Demar Derozan improvement clip and eventually he becomes unstoppable IMO. I'm just betting on this particular player/ body type because I've seen these 4 guys turn into absolute **** monsters and he's ahead of them in some respects.

The defense is a disaster but he is still good man to man and I believe in Thibs for that.


DeRozan and George are hardly superstars offensively.

Butler is not even applicable, he did not have NBA caliber training at the same age.

Wiggins does have better handle than Leonard at that age, but Leonard was a better shooter at the same age.

Anyway comparing him to Leonard and Butler seems odd, because those guys are widely acknowledged as exceptions in regards to growth and hard work. At that point, you could say any player could end up like Jimmy Butler.


My point is he's super young and his the body and make up of 4 of the top 25 and 3 of the top 15 players in the league. He has the same weaknesses that make him inefficient in the role he has now (much like a young Derozan vs. young Jimmy/ Kawhi/ George who got to develop on teams where they could play more off ball). And he's ahead of them on the growth curve and is more athletic.

It's not like he hasn't improved this year it's just disappointing it hasn't been more. The he's plateauing and peaked and he is what he is stuff (and what he is isn't very good) that some people are spouting is f ucking nonsense. He's 21! The stuff that he sucks at isn't unfixable and I've seen 4 examples of players tightening their handle and improving their jumpshot at a reasonable pace that turned players you didn't think would be allstar caliber offensive players at their ages into allstar caliber offensive players.


How is saying he won't be as good as Parker offensively the same as saying he will not improve? Parker will almost certainly be a better scorer than players like DeRozan and George (he probably already is a better scorer than they are). Tightening your handle dramatically is pretty hard, someone like Paul George has made strides and still doesn't have great handles.

You're basically just saying if someone like Jimmy Butler can be great than so can Andrew Wiggins...which seems incredibly unfair to Jimmy Butler. Andrew Wiggins is nothing like Leonard or Butler either, so I don't get why you would cite them. If you want to say that Wiggins is a better prospect than DeRozan then that is fair, but DeRozan isn't that great of a player either.


Wiggins will be an all-star, but I don't see anything to suggest he'll be one of the best scorers in the league.
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Re: Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins 

Post#23 » by CptCrunch » Wed Feb 1, 2017 5:26 pm

JLei wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
JLei wrote:
Parker is better right now. But I'm still taking Wiggins going forward. I'm just not passing up that body, that athleticism at that position when there are so many examples of players in his mold just keep making significant improvements year over year. He's 21.

At age 21
Demar Derozan 17-4-2
Jimmy Butler (senior in college)
Kawhi Leonard 12-6-2
Paul George 12-6-2

The athleticism and the body is similar to these guys. And honestly while his feel isn't amazing I really didn't get amazing feel for the game from the above players (maybe George) at 21 as well. Similar weaknesses at their respective ages (ball handling and consistent jumper). He's already a far advanced scorer than these guys at the same age. He's 21 and it's not like he hasn't gotten better as disappointing of a season/ lack of development (relative to expectation) he's had. He's a much better 3 pt shooter, his ball handling has improved and he's focused much more of his offense as a pick and roll ball handler. He was mostly a post up, isolation, cutter, spot up guy his first 2 years.

You continue developing these skills (improved shooting/ ball handling) and put him on even a Demar Derozan improvement clip and eventually he becomes unstoppable IMO. I'm just betting on this particular player/ body type because I've seen these 4 guys turn into absolute **** monsters and he's ahead of them in some respects.

The defense is a disaster but he is still good man to man and I believe in Thibs for that.


DeRozan and George are hardly superstars offensively.

Butler is not even applicable, he did not have NBA caliber training at the same age.

Wiggins does have better handle than Leonard at that age, but Leonard was a better shooter at the same age.

Anyway comparing him to Leonard and Butler seems odd, because those guys are widely acknowledged as exceptions in regards to growth and hard work. At that point, you could say any player could end up like Jimmy Butler.


My point is he's super young and his the body and make up of 4 of the top 25 and 3 of the top 15 players in the league. He has the same weaknesses that make him inefficient in the role he has now (much like a young Derozan vs. young Jimmy/ Kawhi/ George who got to develop on teams where they could play more off ball). And he's ahead of them on the growth curve and is more athletic.

It's not like he hasn't improved this year it's just disappointing it hasn't been more. The he's plateauing and peaked and he is what he is stuff (and what he is isn't very good) that some people are spouting is f ucking nonsense. He's 21! The stuff that he sucks at isn't unfixable and I've seen 4 examples of players tightening their handle and improving their jumpshot at a reasonable pace that turned players you didn't think would be allstar caliber offensive players at their ages into allstar caliber offensive players.


His weaknesses are some of the least fixable things.

Low basketball IQ and poor awareness, especially on the defensive side. Complete lack of court vision will also hinder his development even if his handles improve. Players with poor handles don't become amazing ball handlers. They merely become okay ones.

DeRozan is not even good. Butler/Kawhi/George are atypical cases. All of them entered the league as stud defenders. For every one of Butler, there are 10 busts. Wiggins for three years running has been in the bottom 5 percentile in NBA defense.
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Re: Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins 

Post#24 » by E-Balla » Wed Feb 1, 2017 8:31 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:
I don't disagree with that, but does that equal lightyears better? Especially when you consider Wiggins' ability to create for himself.

Rudy Gay creates for himself too. That in itself is not what makes a player good. What you do to set up teammates with that ability is what makes you great. Plus Jabari can create for himself too. I just never saw the IQ with Wiggins at all though. I was hoping his defense could make up for it (like Paul George) but that's just not happening yet.


It doesn't make a player good...but if you take that skill away they get worse. So I don't really see your point.

My point is that he can have that one skill and someone can still be way better than him anyway.
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Re: Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins 

Post#25 » by ItsThatEasy » Wed Feb 1, 2017 8:54 pm

At a certain point you just have to acknowledge that Wiggins lack of basketball IQ is just too big of a weakness. He's just missing something whether it's his aloof nature of his general poor decision making. That stuff rarely changes over time.
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Re: Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins 

Post#26 » by Rapcity_11 » Wed Feb 1, 2017 9:39 pm

E-Balla wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Rudy Gay creates for himself too. That in itself is not what makes a player good. What you do to set up teammates with that ability is what makes you great. Plus Jabari can create for himself too. I just never saw the IQ with Wiggins at all though. I was hoping his defense could make up for it (like Paul George) but that's just not happening yet.


It doesn't make a player good...but if you take that skill away they get worse. So I don't really see your point.

My point is that he can have that one skill and someone can still be way better than him anyway.


Sure. That doesn't apply here though. The difference isn't "lightyears".
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Re: Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins 

Post#27 » by JiriWelsch » Thu Feb 2, 2017 1:37 am

I hope that they both continue to expand their games on the defensive side of the ball. Jabari need significant work both as a team and isolation defender, whereas Wiggins needs to work on helping and rotating.

In any case, I hope we can also continue this discussion for the next 12-15 years without resolution. I would love for these guys to be the future of the wing and I'm sure the League would love a few playoff battles. If these two continue to develop, along with other young wings, the future of the league is incredibly bright with young bigs like AD, KAT, Embiid, and Porzingis standing out.
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Re: Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins 

Post#28 » by Jiminy Glick » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:58 pm

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Re: Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins 

Post#29 » by Illmatic12 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:02 pm

Unfortunately Parker's future is in question at this point... he was so athleticism-based that it's hard to tell how he'll have to adjust his game after his second ACL injury.

At this point Wiggins looks like a safer bet, but with the way Parker had been trending it definitely would've been a close argument.
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Re: Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins 

Post#30 » by Prez » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:03 pm

Pretty annoying bump, honestly.
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Re: Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins 

Post#31 » by CptCrunch » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:08 pm

I mean anyone with half a brain would take Wiggins over Parker right now in light of recent developments.

But this doesn't change the fact that Parker has been significantly better than Wiggins for the first half of this season.
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Re: Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins 

Post#32 » by Jiminy Glick » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:29 pm

Milbuck wrote:Pretty annoying bump, honestly.


Ya your right. That is my bad. I completely forgot what happened to Parker. I was just watching the Wiggins vid and thought of this thread since it was close to me because I'm not a fan of Wiggins. I didn't even think of Parker. Embarrassing. I apologize. I'm running on no sleep.

Look on the bright side maybe you guys get a good draft pick.
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Re: Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins 

Post#33 » by Prez » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:48 pm

Jiminy Glick wrote:
Milbuck wrote:Pretty annoying bump, honestly.


Ya your right. That is my bad. I completely forgot what happened to Parker. I was just watching the Wiggins vid and thought of this thread since it was close to me because I'm not a fan of Wiggins. I didn't even think of Parker. Embarrassing. I apologize. I'm running on no sleep.

Look on the bright side maybe you guys get a good draft pick.

No worries man. Didn't mean to take it out on you, just lingering frustration about the injury. At least it wasn't Giannis lol.
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Re: Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins 

Post#34 » by Ron Swanson » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:48 pm

This is pretty much just Wiggins by default now, so yeah, not really much of a debate. I'd even take Aaron Gordon over Parker at this point, but obviously, it's because he projects to have a long, healthy career, not because he's a better player than Parker.
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Re: Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins 

Post#35 » by Ambrose » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:45 pm

Without Lavine I think Wiggins could get to where Parker was and make this a legitimate comparison. However, Parker might never be that guy again and I doubt Lavine is going anywhere.

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