When did the Kobe vs Lebron debate end or is it still going?

JordansBulls · Post #1 » by **JordansBulls** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:39 am

Colbinii · Post #2 » by **Colbinii** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:42 am

After 09 it was clear who the better player was, but LeBron didn't pass Kobe in an all-time sense until 2013 for me

_Game7_ · Post #3 » by **_Game7_** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:43 am

Ended in 06 for me. I recognized LeBron all around game from an early age and recognized his tools. I knew barring injury his only rival would be Mj. Alltime I would say 12.

Post #4 » by **Quotatious** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:59 pm

Peak-wise, In 2009, LeBron was easily a better player than Kobe ever was, sort of like Jordan in 1988 was already a better player than Magic/Bird ever were, but career-wise, I would say 2014 was the year when I didn't have any doubts anymore that LeBron has a more impressive career than Kobe (at that point, he already had 5 seasons better than Kobe's peak, that's enough for me to say that his career is more impressive).

Ballerhogger · Post #5 » by **Ballerhogger** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:25 pm

2013 for me .

Ballerhogger · Post #6 » by **Ballerhogger** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:29 pm

When he had 2011 performace i was starting to dobut it. Luckily for him the east got weaker , year after year. Boston blew it up , Brooklyn gave away the farm, Orlando blew it up, Rose got hurt, The pacers made it intresting for a season..

Hawk · Post #7 » by **Hawk** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:45 pm

2009 Lebron is the first Lebron I would take over any peak Kobe, but in 2009 Kobe was still ahead in the all-time list for me.

There is no debate already on who is ahead in the all-time list for me, Lebron is clearly, but I'm not sure when did that happen.

BasketballFan7 · Post #8 » by **BasketballFan7** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:06 pm

2013. At that point he had a far superior peak, a immensely better 5-year prime, and 2 rings as his team's best player, equal with Kobe.

ItsThatEasy · Post #9 » by **ItsThatEasy** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:25 pm

2009 is when real NBA heads knew for sure, the casual fan had to give it up after 2013 and the Kobe-stans are on their last leg after last years Final performance.

kayess · Post #10 » by **kayess** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:33 pm

There is no debate, and there will never be.

Consider these truths of basketball, which time and time again have been so eloquently delivered to us by one of the great orators of our time - andrewwwww:

1) In basketball, the goal is to win rings, because results matter.
2) To win basketball games, you need to outscore the opponent
3) Therefore the better the scorer you are, the higher the chances of your team winning.

When you take into account these truths, was there really any doubt that Kobe is the better player in this comparison? He won more rings, and only he had the xplosive scoring ability to go for 81. Because if LeBron could score as explosively as Kobe did, how come he never got 81? How come he never went on the insane scoring sprees that Kobe did? Because he couldn't, plain and simple. He couldn't dominate like Kobe could, and that's why he never won as many rings as Kobe.

ItsThatEasy · Post #11 » by **ItsThatEasy** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:36 pm

kayess wrote:There is no debate, and there will never be.

Consider these truths of basketball, which time and time again have been so eloquently delivered to us by one of the great orators of our time - andrewwwww:

1) In basketball, the goal is to win rings, because results matter.
2) To win basketball games, you need to outscore the opponent
3) Therefore the better the scorer you are, the higher the chances of your team winning.

When you take into account these truths, was there really any doubt that Kobe is the better player in this comparison? He won more rings, and only he had the xplosive scoring ability to go for 81. Because if LeBron could score as explosively as Kobe did, how come he never got 81? How come he never went on the insane scoring sprees that Kobe did? Because he couldn't, plain and simple. He couldn't dominate like Kobe could, and that's why he never won as many rings as Kobe.

Help me out with some lotto numbers since you can see into the future.

Dr Aki · Post #12 » by **Dr Aki** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:42 pm

ended for me in 2010 with The Decision

i think happened in part, due to kobe winning back-to-back

HeartBreakKid · Post #13 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:02 pm

kayess wrote:There is no debate, and there will never be.

Consider these truths of basketball, which time and time again have been so eloquently delivered to us by one of the great orators of our time - andrewwwww:

1) In basketball, the goal is to win rings, because results matter.
2) To win basketball games, you need to outscore the opponent
3) Therefore the better the scorer you are, the higher the chances of your team winning.

When you take into account these truths, was there really any doubt that Kobe is the better player in this comparison? He won more rings, and only he had the xplosive scoring ability to go for 81. Because if LeBron could score as explosively as Kobe did, how come he never got 81? How come he never went on the insane scoring sprees that Kobe did? Because he couldn't, plain and simple. He couldn't dominate like Kobe could, and that's why he never won as many rings as Kobe.

Out scoring your opponent means you need defense and offense...the point is to have more points than your opponent not just to have a lot of points.

Lbj is a better scorer than Kobe also, and is better at generating points via passing. It's really not an argument.

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therealbig3 · Post #14 » by **therealbig3** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:31 pm

It's amazing that people can't tell that kayess is being super sarcastic.

therealbig3 · Post #15 » by **therealbig3** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:12 pm

Like most people have said, LeBron was better beginning in 09.

In terms of all-time, the debate ended for me I think after 2013. 09-13 is a better 5 year stretch than any of Kobe's career (his best stretch would be 06-10), with a better 1 year peak (I would take 09, 10, 12, and 13 LeBron over any version of Kobe), and good enough longevity (05-13 is 9 years of superstar level play, including 4 years of GOAT-level play - again: 09, 10, 12, and 13).

ShotCreator · Post #16 » by **ShotCreator** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:35 pm

I think I was 100% convinced beyond return of who I would take all-time after the 2014 season. I believe that season tops any year of Kobe, and it concluded his true prime of '09 - '14 that blew anything 6 year stretch of Kobe away, IMO. Everything before and after '09 - '14 is just extra case bolstering.

juice4080 · Post #17 » by **juice4080** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:55 pm

it would have been easy to make a case for kobe before 2016...the comeback in the finals just shutted the case down for good

Colbinii · Post #18 » by **Colbinii** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:25 pm

juice4080 wrote:it would have been easy to make a case for kobe before 2016...the comeback in the finals just shutted the case down for good

I would love for you to make an easy case for Kobe before 2016 that doesn't include "Wingz dog".

juice4080 · Post #19 » by **juice4080** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:28 pm

Colbinii wrote:
juice4080 wrote:it would have been easy to make a case for kobe before 2016...the comeback in the finals just shutted the case down for good

I would love for you to make an easy case for Kobe before 2016 that doesn't include "Wingz dog".

longevity....you know the penultimate argument lebron's stans like to use to prop him up to jordan's level when he fall short in almost every other aspects

Post #20 » by **Quotatious** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:54 pm

juice4080 wrote:longevity....you know the penultimate argument lebron's stans like to use to prop him up to jordan's level when he fall short in almost every other aspects

I'm much more of a Jordan fan than LeBron fan, but LeBron really doesn't "fall short in almost every other aspects". Even peak-wise, LeBron is arguably better (LeBron in '09 most likely gave his team a bigger lift than any other player in NBA history in the regular season, and then he upped his game in the playoffs, posting unmatched numbers in terms of metrics like PER, WS/48, BPM - he's not only the best ever at those, in the playoffs, but nobody else is even within striking distance - admittedly, the Pistons and Hawks were weak, but the Magic had #1 defense in the league that year, and LeBron had arguably his best series that year against Orlando, so he wasn't really bothered by a stronger team).

Even if one gives Jordan the edge as a better player in prime, LeBron is close enough that if he finishes his career with 2 or 3 more seasons at superstar level (such as what he's doing right now), then he'll have a very good case over MJ (I would currently argue for Kareem as the GOAT, even though his prime is inferior to MJ's or LBJ's - I believe that nobody contributed as much value over their entire career as KAJ - he was a star for 17/18 seasons, let that sink it).

People don't realize how difficult it is to have just one season on prime LeBron level - only some of the elite players in NBA history had a season as good as 2011 or 2015 LeBron, and those are considered "down years" by his standards. Adding 2 or 3 more seasons around that level, is certainly no small matter.