Kawhi Westbrook vs. Michael Jordan

[mysticOscar]

Lol @ ppl voting hybrid not close.

U guys think this hybrid can go at 100% at offense and 100% at defense?

If u look at each individual ability...u will find that they are similar but Jordan excel at certain areas and Jordan is proven.

I dont know...it baffles me how ppl think sometimes

This is part of my hesitation, for argument's sake, say the hybrid is equal or better in the following:

• open-court athleticism
• defensive tools, size, and ability (slight advantage to hybrid)
• drive-and-kick game
• post-ups and midrange game
• three-point spot up shooting (clear advantage to hybrid)

Jordan IMO still has a couple advantages:

• unmatched two-way motor (and not being able to give 100% on both ends is probably a weakness of both players, so it wouldn't, be solved in the hybrid; no slight, MJ stands alone or close to it all-time)
• gravity off-the-ball in the half court and the offensive opportunities it creates (similar to how Wade, without a three, stood out in Haberstroh's SportsVU analysis as a top ten guy)

I can see going with either player, but the two advantages to MJ, particularly the first, make it close to me (edge to Jordan).

Absolutely.

The other big thing is at this point of time....2017 Westbrook/Kawhi (playing the seasons of there career so far) has just started the playoffs. Do they digress and be exposed of certain weaknesses with playoff intensity/series scrutiny or do they rise? We dont know.

But with Jordan...we already know...playoffs and finals.

[ceiling raiser]

Lol @ ppl voting hybrid not close.

U guys think this hybrid can go at 100% at offense and 100% at defense?

If u look at each individual ability...u will find that they are similar but Jordan excel at certain areas and Jordan is proven.

I dont know...it baffles me how ppl think sometimes

This is part of my hesitation, for argument's sake, say the hybrid is equal or better in the following:

• open-court athleticism
• defensive tools, size, and ability (slight advantage to hybrid)
• drive-and-kick game
• post-ups and midrange game
• three-point spot up shooting (clear advantage to hybrid)

Jordan IMO still has a couple advantages:

• unmatched two-way motor (and not being able to give 100% on both ends is probably a weakness of both players, so it wouldn't, be solved in the hybrid; no slight, MJ stands alone or close to it all-time)
• gravity off-the-ball in the half court and the offensive opportunities it creates (similar to how Wade, without a three, stood out in Haberstroh's SportsVU analysis as a top ten guy)

I can see going with either player, but the two advantages to MJ, particularly the first, make it close to me (edge to Jordan).

Absolutely.

The other big thing is at this point of time....2017 Westbrook/Kawhi (playing the seasons of there career so far) has just started the playoffs. Do they digress and be exposed of certain weaknesses with playoff intensity/series scrutiny or do they rise? We dont know.

But with Jordan...we already know...playoffs and finals.

Fair point, but with regards to Kawhi, it seems the biggest issue is the motor. Not that it is a weakness, but the fact that in the last two postseasons, he has not demonstrated the ability to play GOAT perimeter defense while maintaining his offensive load. He doesn't have to deal with Tony Allen this round and instead is facing a 90 year old Vince, so we can't answer that question yet for this playoffs.

[Krodis]

To me the hybrid basically just seems like Michael Jordan but a little better at most things.

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[Ron Swanson]

A hybrid of Russ and Kawhi isn't better than Michael Jordan.....it IS Michael Jordan.

So......even?

[magicmerl]

A hybrid of Russ and Kawhi isn't better than Michael Jordan.....it IS Michael Jordan.

So......even?

I think the Kawhi-brid would be a better shot blocker, rebounder and 3pt shooter.

[DoubleO8]

I voted Jordan but it's close. I think his motor would still be slightly better than hybrid. Too me he also would have a clear advantage in ball handling.

[mischievous]

What defensive version of Kawhi is fused into this hybrid? If it's his 2015 or 2016 version, then the hybrid is comfortably better. The statline would be something like 32/11/11 62 ts% with lockdown defense, how would that not be better than peak Mj?

[mysticOscar]

What defensive version of Kawhi is fused into this hybrid? If it's his 2015 or 2016 version, then the hybrid is comfortably better. The statline would be something like 32/11/11 62 ts% with lockdown defense, how would that not be better than peak Mj?

Because this hybrid also gets tired.

Also in 89....Jordan had somewhat similar stats while being a premier defender and accumlating 3stls per game

[bledredwine]

Kawhi Westbrook is a 6' 7" hybrid of Kawhi Leonard and Russell Westbrook who combines the strengths of both.

For one peak season, would you take the hybrid or Michael Jordan?

Vote above.

Kawhi: Defensive ability, shooting, decision making
Russell: motor, ball handling ability

Yeah, that's a better player than Jordan

You just described Jordan.

[bledredwine]

Kawhi Westbrook is basically MJ, minus a killer midrange game and higher IQ (only comparable to me are Russell Magic Bird Stockton). Neither of them can match MJ's insane inside game, midrange and neither have an unstoppable move.

[oaktownwarriors87]

No that doesn't happen. You take the strengths of both players. So this player would be efficient.

Are you combining their stats or their abilities? Two different things.

You combine the abilities but you take the best of both.

I'm not really buying Westbrook being a better shooter, post player, decision maker, defender or athlete. He'd be abetter ball handeler, but Westbrooks ball handling wouldn't be quite as good in a 6'8" frame. If you give Kawhi the energy of a Westbrook player then he plays out of control, just like Westbrook. Neither of them have the skills (combined or individually) to produce at the level Jordan did with his efficiency.

BEST CASE Kawhi Westbrook is about as good as Jordan... but I don't see it.

It may be an unpopular opinion, but Kawhi would be better of adding the abilities of a guy like Jimmer Freddett.

[cpower]

What defensive version of Kawhi is fused into this hybrid? If it's his 2015 or 2016 version, then the hybrid is comfortably better. The statline would be something like 32/11/11 62 ts% with lockdown defense, how would that not be better than peak Mj?

When you play like westbrook you are not going to score 32 on 62%TS, we have to factor that in.

[magicman1978]

What defensive version of Kawhi is fused into this hybrid? If it's his 2015 or 2016 version, then the hybrid is comfortably better. The statline would be something like 32/11/11 62 ts% with lockdown defense, how would that not be better than peak Mj?

When you play like westbrook you are not going to score 32 on 62%TS, we have to factor that in.

And if he's now playing lockdown defense, does he still put up 32/11/11. Even if it's a hybrid, are we now giving that hybrid a level of stamina he wouldn't really have to be able to carry that type of load on the offensive and defensive end.

[Ron Swanson]

People need to understand that this is exactly why Jordan is widely, and overwhelmingly regarded as the GOAT. It's almost impossible to even come up with a "hybrid" of two or more players who we can all agree would be better in a vacuum. He was the closest thing to the "perfect basketball player" that there's ever been.

The fact that Jordan was able to combine the greatest scoring prowess of any perimeter player ever along with elite lockdown defensive ability in his prime, is a testament to how otherworldly his stamina, skill level, IQ, and freakish athleticism was. That he led his teams to 6 titles in 8 seasons is almost secondary to his legacy if we're simply looking at him from a scouting or player analysis perspective.

[Colbinii]

You are not high on it because a lot of early 90s were played from post...so wing defenders impact is not as common or high as today.

Actually, it is the opposite. Wing defenders today have less of an impact in terms of man to man defense because of the spacing involved in offenses. A player like Kawhi Leonard would have even MORE impact if he played in the 90s, especially with the frequency of guards posting up. Kawhi Leonard would be big enough, quick enough, and has fast enough hands where guards would have a very difficult time 1) getting to their spots, 2) getting separation, and 3) getting around Kawhi.

But look at when the league shifted to perimeter offense in late 90s to early 00s...all of a sudden...these wing defenders looked good?

Did they? Who is saying they looked good? Nate McMillan, Mookie Blaylock, Bobby Phills, and Derek Harper were all very solid defenders, and I wouldn't say they were any worse than guys like Bruce Bowen, Eric Snow, Jason Kidd, and Doug Christie.

What am I missing here?

A lot of ppl use stats like DRating to downgrade wing defenders in the 90s when it requires context. So if ur not one of them...then ignore it.

However u state that 90s wing defenders arent great...so im guessing ur comparing it to today right? But today the perimeter has been the most efficient it has ever been and the amount of offensive possesion is probably the greatest its ever been. So what im saying is...perimeter defense is more important today than interior D compared to prev era....hence u see it more....but todays perimeter D is not as difficult to navigate as having no spacing in the paint to slash for perimeter offense.

Kawhi is a great defender...probably one of the atg at his position when its done...but his perimeter defense is not whats gonna cause issue to Jordan..its those Centres camping in the paint

Ill respond later today as I didnt realize you quoted me!

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[Jim Naismith]

bump

[LakerLegend]

Jordan has better intangibles..IQ, clutch instincts etc.

and frankly skill like footwork, post-up game etc.

[GYK]

Mike's scoring load would still be in his favor, impressive he was able to maintain it in the PS. it wasn't just impressive that he did it but that team construction required it.

still Kawhi Westbrook passing is underrated. Westbrook motor/driving&passing is going to lead to just overall better play. considering Kawhi's habit for fundamental play a lot of better decisions will be made. some because I could pass mean I should passes will be taken away thus some turnovers.

[clyde21]

such a random thread to bring back 3 years later

[Jim Naismith]

such a random thread to bring back 3 years later

Look at the adjacent thread.