International then vs. International now

[HeartBreakKid]

Didn't want to include Kyrie in this since he's basically from NJ.

Furthermore, Giannis is going to be ball-handling as a point-forward the majority of the time. You might as well make him the PG and use that length of the team as a strength. With Jokic also in the fold, Giannis doesn't have the entire onus of play-making on himself.

You can also play Jokic at the 4 or 5 depending on who he's paired up with (Gobert/Gasol/Porzingis or even Giannis).

Jokic can't guard Hakeem or Dirk and will get destroyed. Jokic has nice potential but he has huge flaws in his game at this point.

And Nash/Stojakovic/Dirk can't guard anyone on the now team, either.

The now team is actually a better defensively that's lengthier, more athletic and much more versatile.

Dirk can certainly guard Porzingis, and he's not going to be at any disadvantage against Jokic or Gasol.

Again, Gasol and Jokic are not forwards. Dirk is considered to be among the slower all time great forwards and he is much faster than either Gasol or Jokic.

[clyde21]

I don't get how this is a serious comparison. Team Then is filled with HOF players, while some players on team NOW can't even make an All-star team. Not only that but team then fits perfectly, has prototypical players and defined roles, mix of spacing, driving and defense

There isn't any advantage that international now has.

Length, athleticism, versatility.

The "Then" team has much more offensive versatility. Dirk, Nash, The Dream, and Ginobili all have an offensive skill set more versatile than anyone on the "Now" team (perhaps Jokic deserves mention, but to compare him to top 5,10, and 20 offensive players at this moment is a bit of a stretch.)

Not doubt. That's definitely fair.

How about the defensive match-ups, though. How does Then handle Now's defense and length? Especially when Now can put Giannis, Gobert, Jokic, Batum and Gallo on the court at the same time.

[clyde21]

Jokic can't guard Hakeem or Dirk and will get destroyed. Jokic has nice potential but he has huge flaws in his game at this point.

And Nash/Stojakovic/Dirk can't guard anyone on the now team, either.

The now team is actually a better defensively that's lengthier, more athletic and much more versatile.

Dirk can certainly guard Porzingis, and he's not going to be at any disadvantage against Jokic or Gasol.

Again, Gasol and Jokic are not forwards. Dirk is considered to be among the slower all time great forwards and he is much faster than either Gasol or Jokic.

The put Giannis at PF. How is Dirk gonna guard him?

[HeartBreakKid]

And Nash/Stojakovic/Dirk can't guard anyone on the now team, either.

The now team is actually a better defensively that's lengthier, more athletic and much more versatile.

Dirk can certainly guard Porzingis, and he's not going to be at any disadvantage against Jokic or Gasol.

Again, Gasol and Jokic are not forwards. Dirk is considered to be among the slower all time great forwards and he is much faster than either Gasol or Jokic.

The put Giannis at PF. How is Dirk gonna guard him?

He can't one on one, but then the spacing for Giannis' team is going to be pretty bad if Rubio is the starter.

[clyde21]

Dirk can certainly guard Porzingis, and he's not going to be at any disadvantage against Jokic or Gasol.

Again, Gasol and Jokic are not forwards. Dirk is considered to be among the slower all time great forwards and he is much faster than either Gasol or Jokic.

The put Giannis at PF. How is Dirk gonna guard him?

He can't one on one, but then the spacing for Giannis' team is going to be pretty bad if Rubio is the starter.

Okay, say we do this:

Rubio
Batum
Gallo
Giannis
Gobert

I'm getting a better defender at every position with this team except Gobert vs. Olajuwon where it's a toss-up defensively.

[Prez]

The question's a bit unfair considering 1) we're comparing a relatively narrow time frame for the current guys vs a massive time frame for the past guys (Hakeem all the way through to Ibaka), and 2) opinions are going to be skewed picturing the past players at their peaks vs. most of the studs right now being super young (KP, Giannis, Jokic, etc.)

You project forward and give me peak versions of the following and I'd go to war with that squad. I'm not saying they'd win, but again it'd be a war.

Dragic / Rubio
Wiggins / Batum
Giannis / Simmons
Porzingis / Saric
Embiid / Jokic

[clyde21]

The question's a bit unfair considering 1) we're comparing a relatively narrow time frame for the current guys vs a massive time frame for the past guys (Hakeem all the way through to Ibaka), and 2) opinions are going to be skewed picturing the past players at their peaks vs. most of the studs right now being super young (KP, Giannis, Jokic, etc.)

You project forward and give me peak versions of the following and I'd go to war with that squad. I'm not saying they'd win, but again it'd be a war.

Dragic / Rubio
Wiggins / Batum
Giannis / Simmons
Porzingis / Saric
Embiid / Jokic

That was kinda the point.

I wanted to see how these guys compare already to some of the other international greats. I think projecting these guys forward - at Jokic, Giannis, Gobert and Porzingis at their absolutel peaks and I think the Now team takes it convincingly.

I didn't wanna use Embiid though cuz of the injuries obviously but if you project him forward as well then it's a no contest.

[Prez]

The question's a bit unfair considering 1) we're comparing a relatively narrow time frame for the current guys vs a massive time frame for the past guys (Hakeem all the way through to Ibaka), and 2) opinions are going to be skewed picturing the past players at their peaks vs. most of the studs right now being super young (KP, Giannis, Jokic, etc.)

You project forward and give me peak versions of the following and I'd go to war with that squad. I'm not saying they'd win, but again it'd be a war.

Dragic / Rubio
Wiggins / Batum
Giannis / Simmons
Porzingis / Saric
Embiid / Jokic

That was kinda that point.

I wanted to see how these guys compare already to some of the other international greats. I think projecting these guys forward - at Jokic, Giannis, Gobert and Porzingis at their absolutel peaks and I think the Now team takes it convincingly.

Embiid and Simmons when healthy have insane upside too. The level of international talent in the league right now is staggering, they're just so young. But a golden age is approaching.

[HeartBreakKid]

The question's a bit unfair considering 1) we're comparing a relatively narrow time frame for the current guys vs a massive time frame for the past guys (Hakeem all the way through to Ibaka), and 2) opinions are going to be skewed picturing the past players at their peaks vs. most of the studs right now being super young (KP, Giannis, Jokic, etc.)

You project forward and give me peak versions of the following and I'd go to war with that squad. I'm not saying they'd win, but again it'd be a war.

Dragic / Rubio
Wiggins / Batum
Giannis / Simmons
Porzingis / Saric
Embiid / Jokic

How are we supposed to know exactly how good they'll be? And really, Dragic and Wiggins as your backcourt is not touching Manu/Nash dude.

[Eglend]

The question's a bit unfair considering 1) we're comparing a relatively narrow time frame for the current guys vs a massive time frame for the past guys (Hakeem all the way through to Ibaka), and 2) opinions are going to be skewed picturing the past players at their peaks vs. most of the studs right now being super young (KP, Giannis, Jokic, etc.)

You project forward and give me peak versions of the following and I'd go to war with that squad. I'm not saying they'd win, but again it'd be a war.

Dragic / Rubio
Wiggins / Batum
Giannis / Simmons
Porzingis / Saric
Embiid / Jokic

That was kinda the point.

I wanted to see how these guys compare already to some of the other international greats. I think projecting these guys forward - at Jokic, Giannis, Gobert and Porzingis at their absolutel peaks and I think the Now team takes it convincingly.

I didn't wanna use Embiid though cuz of the injuries obviously but if you project him forward as well then it's a no contest.

Even with all that it's still a no contest victory in favor of then unless you vastly, and I mean vastly, overrate what they'll likely be in their prime.

[clyde21]

The question's a bit unfair considering 1) we're comparing a relatively narrow time frame for the current guys vs a massive time frame for the past guys (Hakeem all the way through to Ibaka), and 2) opinions are going to be skewed picturing the past players at their peaks vs. most of the studs right now being super young (KP, Giannis, Jokic, etc.)

You project forward and give me peak versions of the following and I'd go to war with that squad. I'm not saying they'd win, but again it'd be a war.

Dragic / Rubio
Wiggins / Batum
Giannis / Simmons
Porzingis / Saric
Embiid / Jokic

That was kinda the point.

I wanted to see how these guys compare already to some of the other international greats. I think projecting these guys forward - at Jokic, Giannis, Gobert and Porzingis at their absolutel peaks and I think the Now team takes it convincingly.

I didn't wanna use Embiid though cuz of the injuries obviously but if you project him forward as well then it's a no contest.

Even with all that it's still a no contest victory in favor of then unless you vastly, and I mean vastly, overrate what they'll likely be in their prime.

Nonsense.

Giannis and Jokic are already well on their way to being legitimate MVP caliber players. Embiid too if he stays healthy. Maybe even Porzingis. Projecting these guys forward is pretty easy. They should all be studs barring any injuries.

[Eglend]

That was kinda the point.

I wanted to see how these guys compare already to some of the other international greats. I think projecting these guys forward - at Jokic, Giannis, Gobert and Porzingis at their absolutel peaks and I think the Now team takes it convincingly.

I didn't wanna use Embiid though cuz of the injuries obviously but if you project him forward as well then it's a no contest.

Even with all that it's still a no contest victory in favor of then unless you vastly, and I mean vastly, overrate what they'll likely be in their prime.

Nonsense.

Giannis and Jokic are already well on their way to being legitimate MVP caliber players. Embiid too if he stays healthy. Maybe even Porzingis. Projecting these guys forward is pretty easy. They should all be studs barring any injuries.

Sure, they can all very well end up being studs even though it's pretty unlikely they'll all fulfill the potential that they've shown, but there is a fairly large gap between being studs and matching the level of the players you listed on the then team. I think it's unlikely that enough reach the level of skill to match a pretty much consensus top 10 player in Hakeem, a pretty much consensus top 15 player in Dirk, a 2 time MVP in Nash, not to mention Peja, Manu, Pau, and the others.

[NormanDale]

That was kinda the point.

I wanted to see how these guys compare already to some of the other international greats. I think projecting these guys forward - at Jokic, Giannis, Gobert and Porzingis at their absolutel peaks and I think the Now team takes it convincingly.

I didn't wanna use Embiid though cuz of the injuries obviously but if you project him forward as well then it's a no contest.

Even with all that it's still a no contest victory in favor of then unless you vastly, and I mean vastly, overrate what they'll likely be in their prime.

Nonsense.

Giannis and Jokic are already well on their way to being legitimate MVP caliber players. Embiid too if he stays healthy. Maybe even Porzingis. Projecting these guys forward is pretty easy. They should all be studs barring any injuries.

The entirety of NBA history says this isn't true. If all of these guys become as good as their "then" counterparts, that would be a major surprise. If none of them do, that would also be a surprise. If a few of them do, and others don't, that would be expected. Expecting one of the "Now" guys to surpass Hakeem, though, is asking a whole lot. Hakeem is a Top 10 All Time player.

I do agree with most poster that both (a) the "then" group would win handily, and (b) the comparison is unfair, given that, for example, Hakeem was on his way out of the league by the time Dirk became Dirk.

However, I share your excitement about this new generation of international talent. I was worried, too, because it seemed like the generation after Dirk, Nash, Manu, Parker, etc. was a huge let down. Glad to see the global game picking back up again.

[asindc]

I don't get how this is a serious comparison. Team Then is filled with HOF players, while some players on team NOW can't even make an All-star team. Not only that but team then fits perfectly, has prototypical players and defined roles, mix of spacing, driving and defense

There isn't any advantage that international now has.

Length, athleticism, versatility.

All of which might matter if Team Then wasn't clearly better at playing basketball.

[slothrop8]

I know it's a running theory/joke about Ibaka being older than he claims - but putting him on the "Then" team is rough. The next youngest guy is 35! There's guys on the Now team he's supposed to be younger than.