Rasheed Wallace vs Dirk Nowitzki

[franktony]

Dirk and it's not even close

Sheed was a great 1-1 defender, but Dirk completely murders him on offense.

[PCProductions]

I think I can see what OP is getting at, though. Sheed was really unique and would definitely be highly coveted in today's NBA in ways comparable to Draymond Green.

[Texas Chuck]

I think I can see what OP is getting at, though. Sheed was really unique and would definitely be highly coveted in today's NBA in ways comparable to Draymond Green.

No question Sheed would be highly coveted today. Tremendous player and just a perfect fit for where the league is going. And if you were building a superteam his lack of ego makes him ideal because he's not worried about getting more touches. In fact he'd probably drive his modern coach crazy that he wasn't more selfish offensively.

At the same time, prime Dirk was just on another level. If you have a team great enough already where you can get cute and pick Sheed for fit I guess it doesn't matter, but how many of those teams actually ever exist?

I think Clyde nailed this thread when he points out you should compare more similar level players. Like many of us would take Sheed today over Tom Chambers or Kevin Love or LMA. And obviously lots of people would take KG over Dirk.

[Soulcatcher33]

Sheed to me was one of those players that just never wanted it enough. He had a lot more skill than a Kevin Garnett as a scorer, but he just didn't want to be the man. It's weird to get on a guy about being too unselfish, but that's what he was. He had one of the most beautiful and unstoppable turn arounds the game has ever seen. In a league where Chris Webber was averaging 27 points on 23 shots and Antoine Walker was averaging 20 points on 20 shots...it's a shame that Sheed left so much potential on the table when all was said and done. He could have been averaging 25ppg multiple years on good efficiency and been a dominant offensive player if he had the right mindset. He certainly had the talent and skill base to be one.

[Witzig-Okashi]

I still think that folks look at Sheed's ability to shoot threes and look at his defensive talent and think that he could have been close to Dirk, if not better...It's not true. Sheed was always at his best as a complimentary player on ensemble teams like his stints in Portland and Detroit. I think if he'd stayed in Atlanta he would have been exposed. Furthermore, he started to pick up on his old tendencies once Flip became the head coach in Detroit with his techs (with Rip joining him) and got way too trigger happy with his jumpshot from deep; was never close to a Dirk level shooter and he needed to be in the right situation. Dirk was the situation and maintained his impact with Nellie(and w/Nash), and Avery, and Carlisle. Sheed was a very good defender, but I do wonder how much of Detroit’s success defensively was due to Flip's coaching. They were a top tier offense with Ben Wallace as a starter, could this spread to defensive end as well? Billups and Prince were becoming overrated as defenders by 07-08 imo and I wonder how much credit should be attributed to Sheed

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[rebirthoftheM]

Rasheed from 2000-2003 (4 seasons) was a 26.6 p/11.1 rb/3.1 ast/2 blk per 100 player. Was unselfish to a fault at times. Consistently had higher assists total than turnovers, which is impressive for a big. His TS% was just a tad above the 55% Mark, And was excellent defensively during this period and could spread the floor.

Then he goes to Detroit and easily integrated himself into their culture, leading to a ring. Not many players could have done it that well. Completely dispelled this perception of him as a team killer.

He was no Dirk, but man, he gives you advantages on so many teams. On a team with enough offensive fire power, I'd take Rasheed over Dirk, particularly in the 90s going against elite bigs.

[Xherdan 23]

Sheed's defense is closer to Ben, than Dirk is to KG/Duncan anyway..

Sheed's defense is closer to Dirk's than it is to Ben/TD/KG.

Complete and utter nonsense. You think those 07 and 08 piston teams would have been as close to as good as they were defensively with Dirk instead of Sheed? It's a shame Sheed never got the credit he deserved as a defensive player because of who else was playing during his time in the league. He may not have been a BEN/KG/TD, but he was still an elite defensive player and clearly closer to them than he was Dirk.

You think it's nonsense because you think Sheed was an elite defender but he really wasn't.
Sheed was between good and very good defender depending on the year, he was very inconsistent with his effort, but never elite.
The only close to elite aspect of his game is man-to-man post defense but how important is it really? There aren't many players in history that are elite post offensive players (Shaq, Hakeem, TD, KAJ, Wilt) and Sheed's not stopping any of them.
Sure he can defend Webber and Elton Brand but that's not exactly game changing.

Dirk was an above average defender for most of his career and not bad as his reputation would indicate, so yeah, while Sheed is a better defender than Dirk overall he's still closer to above average (Dirk) than he is to GOAT level (Ben, TD, KG).

[Laimbeer]

A better question would be, is there a team that would benefit more from Sheed than Dirk?

[Jaivl]

A better question would be, is there a team that would benefit more from Sheed than Dirk?

2017 Warriors...?

[Texas Chuck]

A better question would be, is there a team that would benefit more from Sheed than Dirk?

2017 Warriors...?

No. They have so much talent and with Draymond and Durant any defensive advantages are marginal. Meanwhile adding Dirk to that team just creates an offensive force that is staggering to think about. A Dirk/Curry PNR I mean really? Then you have the Durant/Dirk PNR or Dirk in the high post with elite shooters everywhere. Imagine never ever being able to double Dirk in his favorite spot. You couldn't stop any of those plays at all. Just there are no answers left.

[Rapcity_11]

A better question would be, is there a team that would benefit more from Sheed than Dirk?

2017 Warriors...?

No. They have so much talent and with Draymond and Durant any defensive advantages are marginal. Meanwhile adding Dirk to that team just creates an offensive force that is staggering to think about. A Dirk/Curry PNR I mean really? Then you have the Durant/Dirk PNR or Dirk in the high post with elite shooters everywhere. Imagine never ever being able to double Dirk in his favorite spot. You couldn't stop any of those plays at all. Just there are no answers left.

Teams being able to just run P&R after P&R against Curry/Dirk is the bigger factor for me.

Defense is also more easily additive than offense in terms of adding talent to rosters.

[Johnny Firpo]

If Sheed would be good for this era, than Dirk would be tailor-made for it. Like "put together in a lab just for this" level great.

[Brooklyn_34]

Regarding the defense, Sheed was clearly better than Dirk.

But it wasn't as if Dirk was bad on that end, particularly under Avery Johnson.

He wasn't going to get any All Defensive team votes or anything, but he was no liability....he was actually a small plus.

People also sleep on his defense during the 2011 Finals....he was instrumental in keeping Bosh relatively quiet during the series.
He was making his rotations well and really didn't make many defensive mistakes.

[Jaivl]

Regarding the defense, Sheed was clearly better than Dirk.

But it wasn't as if Dirk was bad on that end, particularly under Avery Johnson.

He wasn't going to get any All Defensive team votes or anything, but he was no liability....he was actually a small plus.

People also sleep on his defense during the 2011 Finals....he was instrumental in keeping Bosh relatively quiet during the series.
He was making his rotations well and really didn't make many defensive mistakes.

Solid defense usually goes unnoticed, and Dirk was a solid defender.

[dhsilv2]

A better question would be, is there a team that would benefit more from Sheed than Dirk?

2017 Warriors...?

No. They have so much talent and with Draymond and Durant any defensive advantages are marginal. Meanwhile adding Dirk to that team just creates an offensive force that is staggering to think about. A Dirk/Curry PNR I mean really? Then you have the Durant/Dirk PNR or Dirk in the high post with elite shooters everywhere. Imagine never ever being able to double Dirk in his favorite spot. You couldn't stop any of those plays at all. Just there are no answers left.

I'd rather have sheed. he is a poor man's dirk offensively. His defense as he'd replace zaza would be epic.

[Brooklyn_34]

Regarding the defense, Sheed was clearly better than Dirk.

But it wasn't as if Dirk was bad on that end, particularly under Avery Johnson.

He wasn't going to get any All Defensive team votes or anything, but he was no liability....he was actually a small plus.

People also sleep on his defense during the 2011 Finals....he was instrumental in keeping Bosh relatively quiet during the series.
He was making his rotations well and really didn't make many defensive mistakes.

Solid defense usually goes unnoticed, and Dirk was a solid defender.

I know....tbh, Dirk was a negative on defense when he first came into the league. He incrementally got better. It took him a few years but he became an average defender then a small plus. After 2011, he became a small minus again. But during his prime, he was actually slightly above average.

I am not into these new analytics, but I checked out Dirk's DREG for the 2011 finals...Aside Brendan Haywood and Peja Stojakovic who played 25 minutes and 26 minutes in the series,he had the LOWEST DREG out of any player in the series. Amazing isn't it?

[Rapcity_11]

If Sheed would be good for this era, than Dirk would be tailor-made for it. Like "put together in a lab just for this" level great.

He would obviously be great in any era, but Dirk was tailor made for the era he played (his prime) in even moreso than this. He was even more of a rare type of player a few years ago, and was able to hide defensively more often since teams stayed big more often.

[Pg81]

If Sheed would be good for this era, than Dirk would be tailor-made for it. Like "put together in a lab just for this" level great.

He would obviously be great in any era, but Dirk was tailor made for the era he played (his prime) in even moreso than this. He was even more of a rare type of player a few years ago, and was able to hide defensively more often since teams stayed big more often.

There was no need to hide Dirk on defense in his prime.

[Texas Chuck]

If Sheed would be good for this era, than Dirk would be tailor-made for it. Like "put together in a lab just for this" level great.

He would obviously be great in any era, but Dirk was tailor made for the era he played (his prime) in even moreso than this. He was even more of a rare type of player a few years ago, and was able to hide defensively more often since teams stayed big more often.

There was no need to hide Dirk on defense in his prime.

Meh. The Mavs were giving Dirk the easiest matchup they could for 3 quarters even in his prime. Now that was mainly to protect him from foul trouble since from the day Nash walked out the door the team was utterly dependent on Dirk offensively.

But that doesn't change the reality that Dirk was protected defensively. And not just when teams went big. He used to guard Bowen a lot against the Spurs, he guarded Fisher a lot against the Lakers and so forth.

Now in the 4th quarters of important games you'd find Dirk guarding Duncan or Shaq or KG. Ironically enough in their one playoff match Dirk defended KG more often than KG defended him because Flip decided that not even KG could slow Dirk so he put him on Finley but that backfired as well because Finley had one of his best playoff series in Dallas as well. And Dirk dominated that series on both ends of the court.

Dirk was a good solid man defender in the post, he had great hands using the Karl Malone block the shot down low move, he challenged shooters relentlessly and with his great length he was quite effective at it, he was the first big(and often player) back on defense every possession, and he was a tremendous defensive rebounder, particularly in the playoffs.

[Rapcity_11]

If Sheed would be good for this era, than Dirk would be tailor-made for it. Like "put together in a lab just for this" level great.

He would obviously be great in any era, but Dirk was tailor made for the era he played (his prime) in even moreso than this. He was even more of a rare type of player a few years ago, and was able to hide defensively more often since teams stayed big more often.

There was no need to hide Dirk on defense in his prime.

Yes, because Dirk in his prime didn't play in this era.

Dirk had more value in an era in which teams played 2 bigs more often. That's where you want Dirk. Not as a smallball 5 or being forced to defend P&R after P&R or defending on the 3 point line.