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AEnigma wrote:I never saw either as having a good case for best offensive peak, but I agree Jokic comfortably clears them. And in terms of potential ceiling, he is so far beyond every other centre that if the goal is purely to make the best offence, there is no other choice for a starting point.

Would you take Nash or Magic over either?

rk2023 wrote:

AEnigma wrote:I never saw either as having a good case for best offensive peak, but I agree Jokic comfortably clears them. And in terms of potential ceiling, he is so far beyond every other centre that if the goal is purely to make the best offence, there is no other choice for a starting point.

Would you take Nash or Magic over either?

Generally yes, although the more you need scoring volume and the less you need volume creation, the easier it becomes to go the other way. And for true peaks, yeah, I think they give you a more consistent offensive maximum.

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Jokic is wild, man.

Another great season. Wish this guy played in some Bird/Magic era. That'd be a lot of fun to watch. Shai and ANT/Gobert are solid rivals but not quite at this level.

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Fundamentals21 wrote:Another great season. Wish this guy played in some Bird/Magic era. That'd be a lot of fun to watch. Shai and ANT/Gobert are solid rivals but not quite at this level.

Wemby is on his way.

Unread post#28 » by Sixers in 4 » 31 minutes ago
They'd do much worse. Shaq was unstoppable during the era he played in. Jokic wouldn't have the same success in Shaqs era as he does now.

The reverse would be true for Shaq in this era to some extent but yeah Jokic would find it much harder to score in that era. Centers were bigger and played much more physical. Jokic isn't as physically gifted as Shaq was or dominant in the post. Refs were more apt to eat their whistles too

This is the quote from the jealous Sixers fan on the topic if Jokic would have won the titles with Bryant if he was inserted into the place of Shaq (the answer is obvious yes, Jokic have won with Murray who never made to an all star status in his career). But I want to answer about the physical aspect of centers in 90's compared to today. Which he claims that Jokic wouldn't dominate in 90's because he's too small and 90's centers were bigger than those in 90"s First of all Jokic himself is the unit, just look at his wide shoulders , he's not by any mean small center, he's not the tallest center but he's wide,long and strong. 90"s centers were not physically bigger than today's center. They had Shaq who was the nature wonder in the terms of physical attributes. But rest of them were mix package . Lets take Hakeem for an example, he was about 6"10 even though they listed him 7 feet through out his career, but he was shorter than Jokic who is 6"11, David Robinson was a very tall player but lean and he wasn't the most physical center around, Ewing was not that bigger than Jokic etc. In today NBA we have all kind of sizes of centers. The bigger ones like Jokic, Embiid,Towns,Gobert,Valanciunas, Adams,Mitchell etc. middleweights such as Davis,Sabonis,Ayton,Adebayo and this new toothpick generation Wembanyama and Holmgren. So his argument is flawed. Also his observation that Jokic don't have the good post game is laughable. Only Hakeem had as diversed post up game as Jokic of the all centers in 90"s. Jokic would have been dominant in any NBA era. Also Jokic is the least protected player in the league, he should average 10+ free throws per game, not Embiid who is the foul baiter and flopper.

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Another Anti Jokic MVP campaign is in effect. Look at the reaction of that idiot Kenny when Johnson uttered that Jokic was his MVP Every time Jokic was in the conversation for MVP award in the last 5 seasons lamestream media was in the full effect against him. The ex black players are especially very salty. You would think that after the all success Jokic had last season, this disrespect would finally change but its gotten even worse

Mickey8 wrote:
Another Anti Jokic MVP campaign is in effect. Look at the reaction of that idiot Kenny when Johnson uttered that Jokic was his MVP Every time Jokic was in the conversation for MVP award in the last 5 seasons lamestream media was in the full effect against him. The ex black players are especially very salty. You would think that after the all success Jokic had last season, this disrespect would finally change but its gotten even worse

It's a shame that their opinions are ever given credence. Almost nothing of value is ever spoken by the guys on that show.

So tired of Luka being the beneficiary of racism against Jokic.

AEnigma wrote:So tired of Luka being the beneficiary of racism against Jokic.

Yeah, I think people default to the "it's racism" angle far too quickly.

I think more than anything else it's the "WE LOVE PPGZ AND BOX SCORE AVERAGES" argument much more than anything to do with race.

EDIT: I hasten to add that Luka obviously has a viable argument this year.

Yep, being the scoring leader (so long as you make the playoffs) has been one of the most consistent routes to serious MVP conversation.

Said it before, but do not think it is a coincidence that the highest 8-seed MVP finishes have all been by that year’s scoring leader.

AEnigma wrote:So tired of Luka being the beneficiary of racism against Jokic.

Know that this is a facetious remark but last year's MVP discourse was ABSOLUTELY racist. And the commentator igniting it not only shifted the MVP award but also somehow kept his job. Just imagine if this was a white guy talking about a black player like that.

Maybe Kendrick Perkins kept his job because he is secretly the league’s most powerful media voice, capable of deciding award results with a single clip.

Or maybe Jokic lost last year because Embiid had an incredible season and voters have been consistently resistant to MVP threepeats ever since Bird; who is to say.

I would rather Embiid beat out Jokic last year than Luka or Shai beat out Jokic this year.