Top 10 players in NBA History.

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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#161 » by andykeikei » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:03 pm

jaypo wrote:Damn, I wish Malone didn't get hurt! And I wish the Glove still had some love instead of being made to be Chauncie's biatch. That season was cursed from the beginning. Kobe's legal crap. Malone, who hadn't missed a game because of injury in 365 years, suffers a career threatening injury!

You know, I used to hate Malone and his little buddy in Utah. However, when he came to the lakers, he was a class act. He worked his ass off, intelligent enough to pick up the triangle (unlike Payton), sacrificed himself to be part of the offense, a glue guy in the locker room...I really hope he can get that one ring. But as you said, that season was cursed from the beginning, and although I am a fan of Kobe, I feel he has to take a huge blame for this mess (as did Shaq and Phil). Its something that the lakers could not pay back, because it was the mailman's last season. To this day, when I think back that season, I still feel sorry for him because of the immaturity of those two who were supposed to bring him to the promise land.
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#162 » by eatyourchildren » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:15 pm

Reading the NBA Education of Kobe Bryant by Roland Lazenby (fantastic Lakers writer) gives you yet another perspective. Jaypo you're not the only one that reads Lakers books. *gigantic rolling eyes icon if there is one*
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#163 » by JordansBulls » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:52 pm

semi-sentient wrote:
jaypo wrote:(BTW, this isn't the real Sedale Threatt, is it?? I remember watching him play on the Lakers.)


Haha... we knocked down a few beers while watching a Lakers game at my house last season, so I can assure you it's not. The real Sedale is much taller, and blacker.


I thought you lived in Austin? Well that is where your location says. :D
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#164 » by semi-sentient » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:49 am

Yeah, I do. Sedale was in town on business so he dropped by for a game. Can't remember which one it was though. :P
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#165 » by nolunch » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:21 am

Why Bird is ahead of Shaq ?

Shaq made it to 6 Finals, winning 4 rings, and 3 Finals MVPs
Bird made it to 5 Finals, winning 3 rings, and 2 Finals MVPs.
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#166 » by RoyceDa59 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:37 am

nolunch wrote:Why Bird is ahead of Shaq ?

Shaq made it to 6 Finals, winning 4 rings, and 3 Finals MVPs
Bird made it to 5 Finals, winning 3 rings, and 2 Finals MVPs.


Well I guess that settles it!

If we are using simplistic measures, what about Bird's back-to-back-to-back regular season MVP's. They dwaft Shaq's 'abysmal' single regular season MVP.
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#167 » by jaypo » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:22 am

Alas- Shaq won back to back to back finals MVP's! Name the other players in history to do that!
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#168 » by JordansBulls » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:35 am

jaypo wrote:Alas- Shaq won back to back to back finals MVP's! Name the other players in history to do that!


MJ (2x)
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#169 » by UDRIH14 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:00 am

i got duncan ahead of shaq and hakeem, so more ring he can make a case for himself knocking on bird/magics door....

the difference between duncan and shaq, duncan is more consistent in terms of stats and showing up for the season, i cant have a guy hurt/injured in the season costing the team games for a better seed or missing the playoffs. Didnt shaq missed the playoffs with heat/suns? same with kobe also when he was given the leader role for the lakers when snaq left...just missing the playoffs really hurts their rankings....
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#170 » by LebronsCavs » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:28 am

CellarDoor wrote:
Jordan23Forever wrote:I believe Cellar Door has Kobe over Shaq. Wow. I mean...wow. :lol:


You "believe" I do? There's no believing necessary. I posted it on the internet for all to see.

They have the same number of rings, 4. Kobe has 2 fewer finals MVPs, one fewer MVP, and one more finals appearance. Shaq's peak was more statistically dominant, but when you throw longevity in there, Shaq hasn't been an all-world level player since 05, Kobe's been one since 99 or 00 or doesn't show any signs of slowing down. It's very close, and if it helps you sleep at night feel free to place Shaq ahead of Kobe for now.


Yo do realize Shaq played in the NBA pre -2000 right? Shaq had a finals appearance with the Magic, giving him the same amount of finals appearances as Kobe. I really question your basketball knowledge when you say Kobe's longevity has been longer than Shaq's. Shaq has been an all world player from '93-'05. Kobe wasnt an all world player until 2001, so that gives him 8 or so years at elite status, while Shaq has 13 or so.
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#171 » by FANOFNBA » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:17 am

John Doe [MN] wrote:
Spurtatcus wrote:1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Tim Duncan
7. Hakeem Olajuwon
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Bill Russell
10. Oscar Robertson
Nailed my 10 exactly, though I would order them differently.

1. Jordan
2. Chamberlain
3. Abdul-Jabbar
4. Robertson
5. Bird
6. Johnson
7. Russell
8. O'Neal
9. Olajuwon
10. Duncan

As for Kobe, since this thread appears to have become little more than a thinly veiled attempt to artificially insert him into the discussion for top 10 status despite the fact that he has no business being ahead of any of those above... For my money, he's securely behind George Mikan and Moses Malone, battling with Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, David Robinson, and Julius Erving for the rights to 13th all time. For now that is, as LeBron will pass him, and CP3 or Wade might.


you say kobe has no business being top ten, but then you put robertson at #4 above bird, johnson, and russell? so titles, and achievements hold no weight in your eyes?

and kobe is not "SECURELY" behind robinson or baylor, or even dr. j. West, mikan, and malone, i would not say he is SECURELY" behind, buts its close enough, and i wont argue with some one who puts them above kobe but its not "securely"


lol @ "thinly veiled attempt"
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#172 » by FANOFNBA » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:26 am

jaypo wrote:Alas- Shaq won back to back to back finals MVP's! Name the other players in history to do that!


Mj
hakeem
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#173 » by jaypo » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:09 pm

FANOFNBA wrote:
jaypo wrote:Alas- Shaq won back to back to back finals MVP's! Name the other players in history to do that!


Mj
hakeem


Wrong. Hakeem only won 2 championships, giving him back to back finals MVPs. Shaq and Jordan did it 3 years in a row.
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#174 » by Dat Pass » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:24 pm

jaypo wrote:Alas- Shaq won back to back to back finals MVP's! Name the other players in history to do that!


What will you say when Kobe does it this year? Let me guess:

"Gasol deserved at least one of those Finals MVP's, he led the team in turnover percentage"

:roll:
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#175 » by INKtastic » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:35 pm

UDRIH14 wrote:i got duncan ahead of shaq and hakeem, so more ring he can make a case for himself knocking on bird/magics door....

the difference between duncan and shaq, duncan is more consistent in terms of stats and showing up for the season, i cant have a guy hurt/injured in the season costing the team games for a better seed or missing the playoffs. Didnt shaq missed the playoffs with heat/suns? same with kobe also when he was given the leader role for the lakers when snaq left...just missing the playoffs really hurts their rankings....


So you exclude MJ for his 2nd season broken foot? Or Bird for later career back trouble that hurt his team. Or Magic for missing a half dozen seasons because of HIV. And the duncan has certainly been accused of coasting for the better parts of seasons, only to start ramping it up as the playoffs approach.
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#176 » by INKtastic » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:36 pm

Ball Boy wrote:
jaypo wrote:Alas- Shaq won back to back to back finals MVP's! Name the other players in history to do that!


What will you say when Kobe does it this year? Let me guess:

"Gasol deserved at least one of those Finals MVP's, he led the team in turnover percentage"

:roll:


you missed one of the to backs
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#177 » by jaypo » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:01 pm

2 things- first off, didn't Duncan miss an entire playoff schedule because of injury? How many has Shaq flat out missed because of injury?

Secondly- thanks lj4mvp. If you wouldn't have said it, I would have.

To clear the air- I'm talking about players that have won 3 FINALS MVP'S IN A ROW. The list is short and distinguished.
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#178 » by GreenDreamer » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:10 pm

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Tim Duncan
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Oscar Robertson
10. Julius Erving

I've read a good deal of ignorant stuff on this thread regarding Bill Russell. Evidently some people just have no idea what kind of freak athlete this dude was. He did track and field on the side, while in college. He could run a sub 50 second 400 meters make when the world record was around 47 seconds, and his personal best high jump in 1956 (his senior year in college), would have placed him 4th in the Olympic Games that year. He did this PART TIME!!!! One of the greatest athletes to ever play the game, period.

Regarding the fallacy that Wilt was simply "deprived of good teammates," which is why Russell won so many more Titles, it should be kept in mind that Russell led the University of San Francisco to two NCAA Titles in his three years there, whereas Russell led Kansas to the Finals once, and lost. To put that in perspective, Kansas had already won multiple NCAA Titles before Wilt showed up there, and was a National powerhouse. USF, meanwhile, was never a basketball power before or after Russell attended it. In fact, it was the ONLY school which offered him a scholarship, and they just happened to luck out in getting him because of that. Russell, leading USF to those two Titles would be the equivalent of somebody taking a team like Santa Clara or Kent State to multiple chips today.

Russell was a freak athlete and one of the smartest players ever. He is, undoubtedly, the most dominant defensive player in the history of the game. He was also a great ball handler and passer for a big man, often leading the Celtics on their fastbreaks. Wilt was is in the league for the majority of Russells career, if you weren't aware of it, and Russell still won more MVPs than him. He was considered the better player back then, and there is NO REASON that ANYONE should think any differently today.

It is kind of funny that people drone on about how "defense wins championships", and this dude who won 13 combined NBA and NCAA Titles, is somehow a lesser player than a guy who won 2. Chamberlain, by his own admission, later on in his career decided that he had to start playing like Bill Russell and focus on defense and passing instead of scoring, which resulted in the Lakers 72 campaign. Hell, 1969 should have settled this debate forever. The Lakers were a supposed "dream team" and were expected to demolish the aging Celtics. Did they? Nope - to paraphrase Russell - they had to carry those victory balloons out one at a time. Bill was better than Wilt and anyone on this list not named Jordan... and that was only by a hair.
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#179 » by INKtastic » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:28 pm

Russell may have won more MVPs, but during the years their careers overlapped, Wilt was first team all NBA 7 times to Russell's 2 times. MVP often has more to do with quality of the team than who's perceived as the better player.

Russell's teams were loaded with hall of fame players. One year he had 7 hall of fame teammates and a hall of fame coach. The only two years Wilt had teams considered loaded, he won the championship.
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Re: Top 10 players in NBA History. 

Post#180 » by That Nicka » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:42 pm

lj4mvp wrote:The only two years Wilt had teams considered loaded, he won the championship.


'69

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