Hawks can't acquire 2 max players...

[azuresou1]

JJ was moved to the Nets because they were desperate for talent. We trade Josh to them, and then suddenly they're not so desperate now, are they?

Trade Josh to the Nets, and there's almost a ZERO percent chance NJ takes on Joe at all. Why would they?

Using our front office and its history of bad moves is generally not a good indicator of what teams around the league are willing to do.

[Jamaaliver]

I agree. Josh to NJ eliminates the Nets taking Joe Johnson.

But I do believe there would be other opportunities to move JJ.

He's a 6-time All Star, consummate professional and consistent, dependable scorer.

There are always teams 'desperate for talent' who would kill to have a JJ on their roster.

[azuresou1]

Like who? The only teams desperate for talent would be those who are borderline championship teams, or teams that want to retain their star player. Deron was the only one who was realistically was staying. At BEST we would have offloaded JJ for slightly worse contracts.

[Jamaaliver]

Just think of the last two teams to acquhire JJ.

teams that were completely dreadful on the court and in the box office, but needed to improve to at least become relevant.

I suspect Golden State, Charlotte or Sacramento would kill to have an All Star on their team making them good eough to make the playoffs every year.
I also suspect NYK would have at least considered trading Amare for JJ. Amare's contract is not covered by insurance, but is shorter than Joe's.

JJ is overpaid, but he's still a good player.

[MaceCase]

Just think of the last two teams to acquhire JJ.

teams that were completely dreadful on the court and in the box office, but needed to improve to at least become relevant.

I suspect Golden State, Charlotte or Sacramento would kill to have an All Star on their team making them good eough to make the playoffs every year.
I also suspect NYK would have at least considered trading Amare for JJ. Amare's contract is not covered by insurance, but is shorter than Joe's.

JJ is overpaid, but he's still a good player.

You presented two scenarios

1) where young rebuilding teams would deem it fit burning their capspace and assets on a 31 year old on a max contract with the intention that it could possibly be the difference in them making the playoffs. You continuously omit the existence of age and that it happens to have this odd effect on athletes in that it forces decline but how big would this playoff window be for said rebuilding team? Is the investment truly worth it for a theoretical at best 1-2 year playoff window? Are teams that have been under such long-term rebuilding truly interested in such short-term success? These only seem like rhetorical questions though assuming normal logical sense...

2) a situation where Joe is traded for a worse contract. Yes it is a year shorter but there is a very good reason for it being uninsured.......it's because Amar'e's knees are on the precipice of turning into chalk dust.


These are truly likely and more desirable outcomes than the current situation that the team is in.


The impotence of this debate should be clarified though because you've stated that:

1) Joe single-handedly influences a team's playoffs chances.
2) Josh Smith is merely an above-average player.
3) A 22 year old Rookie from a lower tier basketball conference is on par with a player that has already achieved a 6th man of the year award, an Olympic gold medal and NBA Finals appearance by the same age.

[Jamaaliver]

That's all you took from our conversation? This makes me sad.

[MaceCase]

If your premises are faulty then your conclusions are too.

[Jamaaliver]

I suspect that if I said the sky was blue, you'd calll me a liar and insist it was brown.

[MaceCase]

LOL.... As if anything you've stated in your arguments is based on fact rather than your own personal appraisal of reality.

Lets see, which of these premises are equivalent to "the sky is blue."

1) Joe single-handedly influences a team's playoffs chances.
2) Josh Smith is merely an above-average player.
3) A 22 year old Rookie from a lower tier basketball conference is on par with a player that has already achieved a 6th man of the year award, an Olympic gold medal and NBA Finals appearance by the same age.

[Jamaaliver]

[Jamaaliver]

You presented two scenarios

2) a situation where Joe is traded for a worse contract. Yes it is a year shorter but there is a very good reason for it being uninsured.......it's because Amar'e's knees are on the precipice of turning into chalk dust

but...

Amar'e is a faceup guy but he is a consistent post scorer in that he consistently score points from the post....

Bad contract for an injury prone guy that fell off tremendously but his deal ends a year earlier and he'd at least give the team flair and leadership more that Mumbles Johnson ever has.

On-the-court-wise he'd make sense with Josh leaving and Horf is the type of bigman that he can succeed with because he can space the floor and not clog the paint for his pick and roll action.

[Jamaaliver]

JJ, Horford, Teague, a top 10 pick and some cap space suddenly allows us the flexibility to remake our team.

This is where your plan is entirely half assed. There simply is no capspace with that group.

Everything you wrote here is wrong:

per CNNSI.COM:


Atlanta Hawks: The Hawks are finally set to have major cap room in the summer of 2013, though they get it only because Smith’s contract expires after next season. His potential cap hold would soak up nearly all of Atlanta’s theoretical cap space, and they would also have some money reserved for Jeff Teague, a restricted free agent after next season. Still, the Hawks get a little more flexible at that point than they are now.


http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/03/15/dwight-howard-ripple-effect-in-the-nba/

[MaceCase]

Ah yes, the post from the past that absolutely reconfirms the current post of moving a **** contract for another **** contract. Good find!

Let's try to look way back to Aug. 25th 2012 though

What really burns is that we could have traded Josh Smith this past season to NJ for the draft rights to Damion Lillard.

THAT kid is a star in the making. (And the likely ROY.)

And for the record, I view Josh Smith as a slightly above average player.

You lose at the internet.

[MaceCase]

JJ, Horford, Teague, a top 10 pick and some cap space suddenly allows us the flexibility to remake our team.

This is where your plan is entirely half assed. There simply is no capspace with that group.

Everything you wrote here is wrong:

per CNNSI.COM:


Atlanta Hawks: The Hawks are finally set to have major cap room in the summer of 2013, though they get it only because Smith’s contract expires after next season. His potential cap hold would soak up nearly all of Atlanta’s theoretical cap space, and they would also have some money reserved for Jeff Teague, a restricted free agent after next season. Still, the Hawks get a little more flexible at that point than they are now.


http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/03/15/dwight-howard-ripple-effect-in-the-nba/

Oh it is is it?
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages ... /hawks.jsp

Take notice that the Hawks have 40 million invested to 3 players alone. So the Hawks have 18 million to sign 10 players.......and this is capspace and flexibility to you? Yikes.

[Jamaaliver]

Josh Smith is a superstar? All Star? Franchise player?

He's never avg 20 ppg for a season.

He's never avg a double-double for a season.

He's never been an all-star.

He's never been All-NBA.

The US Olympic team invited Tyson Chandler and Anthony Davis over him.

He is a slightly above average player.