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Prospecting: Kyle Anderson

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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#41 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:22 pm

ATLHawksfan21 wrote:I'm impressed Jamaal. When did you become a psychic?

It's always funny watching you take the route that you take with that last line.


I don't exactly follow.

SAS has been a contender for the last 16 years. I don't think that changes anytime soon. As long as POP is around, I think they'll survive even Duncan's retirement. Anderson will likely be a rotation player in the next couple of years. Likely replacing Diaw. I honestly didn't thnk it was a stretch to say SAS would contend in a couple of years.

I know you guys place an asterisk on the season because of Horford's injury. But it's not the first time we've lost him to a torn pec for most of the year. The real issue is that this past year we did not have an adequate backup plan at center.

That's Ferry's responsibility. Gorgui Dieng last draft would have been the perfect fit at Center. Could this
Adreian Payne pick be a healthy alternative so we don't have to depend on Pero or Brand should AL struggle in his return from injury?
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#42 » by PandaKidd » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:01 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
PandaKidd wrote:Every player has issues, especially at 15+ in the draft.


Time will tell. And Payne was a solid pick. I just thought we had the ammo to pursue a young player with star potential. (Kyrie, M Smart, Saric, J Young) AP is a solid player, maybe a starter. But I don't see the team being massively better because of his addition.

NY Knicks didn't even have a 1st round pick, but i think they got two guys who could be huge piece going forward. (Early, Giannis Jr.)

I'll let a few months play out and see. The last time Ferry drafted a young player at a stacked position (Jenkins), the move was followed by a big trade.

Could Horford be gone?

I think people are slapping the knicks because just the sheer result of them GETTING draft picks.

If we took EARLY at 15 we would have been laughing. Youre right, everything they are doing is SAFE. Its not sexy and no gambles. Thats the spurs way.

Personally Im glad we did this than say what the Bulls did. They trade 2 picks for Douggie?
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#43 » by PandaKidd » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:10 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
ATLHawksfan21 wrote:I'm impressed Jamaal. When did you become a psychic?

It's always funny watching you take the route that you take with that last line.


I don't exactly follow.

SAS has been a contender for the last 16 years. I don't think that changes anytime soon. As long as POP is around, I think they'll survive even Duncan's retirement. Anderson will likely be a rotation player in the next couple of years. Likely replacing Diaw. I honestly didn't thnk it was a stretch to say SAS would contend in a couple of years.

I know you guys place an asterisk on the season because of Horford's injury. But it's not the first time we've lost him to a torn pec for most of the year. The real issue is that this past year we did not have an adequate backup plan at center.

That's Ferry's responsibility. Gorgui Dieng last draft would have been the perfect fit at Center. Could this
Adreian Payne pick be a healthy alternative so we don't have to depend on Pero or Brand should AL struggle in his return from injury?

Yeah but you cant take the guy that most people thought wasnt that great who turned out to have a GREAT 20 game stretch at the end of the season and then say Ferry screwed up. its revisionist history, you know that.

Am I upset? yeah, so are a ton of other teams who didnt take Dieng, but again, he had like 20-30 games of production.

What we need to do is be patient and see what Bebe does this season. If hes a bust, then we have every right to be upset because FERRYs goal was to stash big men for 1-2 seasons to develop then bring them over. When AH got injured (which FYI he had had 1 injury at that point, NO WAY Ferry could predict ANOTHER torn pec), Ferry ran through stop gap after stop gap. It wasnt his fault.

If you look at our Roster PRIOR to last season we were pretty deep on paper. Brand, AH, Millsap, Antic, Ayon, Scott. AH goes down and then all of the sudden Rookies and Vets get way more minutes than we thought was going to happen.
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#44 » by azuresou1 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:14 pm

Why would you want Dieng over Bebe? Bebe's upside is FAR better than Dieng's.
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#45 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:41 pm

PandaKidd wrote:Yeah but you cant take the guy that most people thought wasnt that great who turned out to have a GREAT 20 game stretch at the end of the season and then say Ferry screwed up. its revisionist history, you know that.

Am I upset? yeah, so are a ton of other teams who didnt take Dieng, but again, he had like 20-30 games of production.


Whoa. I was singing Dieng's praises all last spring. I literally had a dozen posts across three different Hawks fans sites stating how much of a beast I thought he was.

He went to Minny and there were two problems: He was stuck behind two high priced veterans. Adelman comes from the Old School train of thought that you don't play rookies.

He did not get much burn at all in the early going of the season. Once injuries came into play and he was forced into a starting role, he avg 12 ppg & 12 rpg & 1.7 bpg as a Rookie with no plays being called for him. He is an elite rebounder and shot blocker. Things I've wanted from a starting Center for years.

Adelman made a huge mistake not playing him earlier. Dude is battle tested as a NCAA Champion, has a nice mid-range game and is a beast defensively. He's been compared to Serge Ibaka, which seems fair.

If we'd had Dieng on our squad last year, I think we have a winning record and don't miss a beat without Horford. (Like 2012) Playing alongside Horford, I think they bully ever front court in the East (except WAS and CHA)

azuresou1 wrote:Why would you want Dieng over Bebe? Bebe's upside is FAR better than Dieng's.

I am still of the belief that Horford next to a defensive Center would be a dominant front court. I always believed Dieng could start from Day One and possibly be moved in trade as part of a larger move as his immediate contributions would increase his value within a year or two.

Bebe is a project with potential. But if he gets here at 23 lacking the same polish and experience Dieng got in College, it's kind of all for naught. Meanwhile, Horford, Teague are in their prime today and get 0 benefit from the Bebe selection.

I'd take Dieng today as my starting Center hands down. Dieng started for an NCAA Champion and played a key role on one of the best teams in the NCAA. Bebe has been a backup his whole career on a team that won nothing. He lacks basic BBall knowledge. He lacks strength. He lacks offensive skills. He's all potential. I prefer accomplishment over potential.
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#46 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:48 pm

PandaKidd wrote:Yeah but you cant take the guy that most people thought wasnt that great who turned out to have a GREAT 20 game stretch at the end of the season and then say Ferry screwed up. its revisionist history, you know that.


Jamaaliver-Jul 8th, 2013:
Jamaaliver wrote:I don't get why people keep saying Dieng is only a short term solution. He is more of a sure ting than Bebe, and is ready to contribute today. His game is akin to Ben Wallace...with Actual offensive talent.

But at age 23, he easily has another 8 years of high level production.

And he is a champion. A proven commodity.

By the time Bebe has developed and strengthened enough to start, he will be Dieng's age.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1262321


Jamaaliver-Jul 11th, 2013:
Jamaaliver wrote:I really wish we had drafted Dieng.

What the hell is D Ferry doing?

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1262527&start=15

Jamaaliver-Jun 12th, 2013 In the comments over on Hawkshoop.
Jamaaliver wrote:Dieng would definitely be a welcome addition. Big, strng, NBA ready.
If he had a reliable post game he’d be a top ten pick. As it stands, he is a worthy prospect for the 18th pick.
http://hawkshoop.com/hawkshoop-draft-profile-gorgui-dieng/
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#47 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:55 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
ATLHawksfan21 wrote:I'm impressed Jamaal. When did you become a psychic?

It's always funny watching you take the route that you take with that last line.


I don't exactly follow.

SAS has been a contender for the last 16 years. I don't think that changes anytime soon. As long as POP is around, I think they'll survive even Duncan's retirement. Anderson will likely be a rotation player in the next couple of years. Likely replacing Diaw. I honestly didn't thnk it was a stretch to say SAS would contend in a couple of years.

I know you guys place an asterisk on the season because of Horford's injury. But it's not the first time we've lost him to a torn pec for most of the year. The real issue is that this past year we did not have an adequate backup plan at center.

That's Ferry's responsibility. Gorgui Dieng last draft would have been the perfect fit at Center. Could this
Adreian Payne pick be a healthy alternative so we don't have to depend on Pero or Brand should AL struggle in his return from injury?


My fault, I mistook the first part that I highlighted.

In regards to an asterick because of Al's injury, we had way more problems than just Al's injury. The statement you highlighted may have ended up being incorrect if Al was the only injury that we sustained. I would have liked to have a better backup for Al as well, but I think the backups we had in place could have done an alright job if they stayed healthy. Instead, we had Pero go down for a month + right after Horford went down. And then Ayon goes down for the season right after Pero goes down.

We went on a tear towards the end of the season once we got healthy and had a consistent starting lineup with Pero. It's impossible to plan for 3 centers to be hurt at the same time.
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#48 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:57 pm

PandaKidd wrote:Personally Im glad we did this than say what the Bulls did. They trade 2 picks for Douggie?


Yes. That trade seems unbelievably foolish. Not even in hindsight. Just plain old, regular sight.
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#49 » by PandaKidd » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:00 pm

Jamaal we both liked Gieng, but lets pump the brakes here a little. 1 guy had 30 games of production. Bebe we know NOTHING.

I mean you are being REALLY critical over not drafting a guy who averaged:
PPG RPG BLKPG PER
4.8 5.0 0.8 16.58

VS
Muscala
PPG RPG BLKPG PER
3.8 2.6 0.5 10.84

Lets at least see what bebe brings because Dieng , while he had some pretty good games , really barely played. He was not a make or break player IMO.
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#50 » by xccelerate » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:10 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:And Kyle Anderson falls all the way to #30 where the Spurs select him. He'll be a key component of their next title run...

SMH.

Ferry is really starting to concern me.


This is such a big stretch.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/tea ... draft.html

Thiago and Kawhi Leonard are the only players from 12 drafts that were "key components" to last season's title. Cory Joseph was also there but wasn't a key component.
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#51 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:10 pm

ATLHawksfan21 wrote: It's impossible to plan for 3 centers to be hurt at the same time.


That is a VERY fair point. Let's just say I expressed concern regarding the quality of those backups before last season. I expressed those same concerns to you before the playoffs in April. Depending on guys like Ayon and Antic who have NEVER been dependable players in this league seemed short-sighted.

Jamaaliver wrote:
azuresou1 wrote:3) Our frontcourt DEPTH is not bad. It's really not.


Time will tell. I'm going on record as saying I have deep concerns. Ayon is already hurt. Elton is old. Antic is a three point specialist.
Time will tell.


I'm not a psychic. But i'm pretty good at reading the signs. Understanding the writing on the wall.
Ayon was injured and missed the playoffs. Brand and Antic gave us nothing in the playoffs.
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#52 » by azuresou1 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:11 pm

Bebe is coming over this year after being the DPotY of Spain. I think he is a far bigger impact player than Dieng is or will be. No knocks on Dieng, but Bebe is taller, has better wingspan, is more mobile, more explosive, younger, and in general is a far better pick than Dieng.

Also, to revisit the original topic, even if Kyle Anderson succeeds in San Antonio, it doesn't mean anything for us. San Antonio is the perfect system for a guy like him, and they clearly already have championship talent to slot him in with minimal disruption. On the other hand, we clearly are missing several interim pieces, such as wing scoring and interior presence. As ESPN states:

"The irony of course is if (Anderson) went higher, he would have landed in a worse situation and maybe wouldn't even develop. Literally might be the difference between having a 12-plus year career and being out of the league before the end of his rookie-scale contract."
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#53 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:21 pm

xccelerate wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:And Kyle Anderson falls all the way to #30 where the Spurs select him. He'll be a key component of their next title run...

SMH.

Ferry is really starting to concern me.


This is such a big stretch.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/tea ... draft.html

Thiago and Kawhi Leonard are the only players from 12 drafts that were "key components" to last season's title. Cory Joseph was also there but wasn't a key component.


Good point. Time will tell.

PandaKidd wrote:Jamaal we both liked Gieng, but lets pump the brakes here a little. 1 guy had 30 games of production. Bebe we know NOTHING.

I mean you are being REALLY critical over not drafting a guy who averaged:
PPG RPG BLKPG PER
4.8 5.0 0.8 16.58

VS
Muscala
PPG RPG BLKPG PER
3.8 2.6 0.5 10.84

Lets at least see what bebe brings because Dieng , while he had some pretty good games , really barely played. He was not a make or break player IMO.


I am not sure what numbers you're comparing. All I know is that in college, Dieng proved to be a top defensive Center. In the NBA, Dieng proved to be a top defensive Center. The massive difference in PER alone is a hint of the type of players that Muscala and Dieng can expect to be. Gorgui Dieng has produced the highest levels of basketball. Bebe literally does not know how to play basketball.

I couldn't figure out why Dieng got so little burn early in the season. I was actually beginning to doubt the young man. Then I read a few T-Wolves sites lamenting that Adelman simply didn't play him enough early on because he's a rookie. I can only wish we'd had a sturdy, young backup Center capable of stepping into a starter's role and dominate the paint the way Gorgui did. Instead, we had a 31 year old Center who did things like: set solid screens, dominate at InBounds passing, and shoot a disappointing % from three point range.
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#54 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:31 pm

azuresou1 wrote:Bebe is coming over this year after being the DPotY of Spain. I think he is a far bigger impact player than Dieng is or will be. No knocks on Dieng, but Bebe is taller, has better wingspan, is more mobile, more explosive, younger, and in general is a far better pick than Dieng.

Also, to revisit the original topic, even if Kyle Anderson succeeds in San Antonio, it doesn't mean anything for us. San Antonio is the perfect system for a guy like him, and they clearly already have championship talent to slot him in with minimal disruption. On the other hand, we clearly are missing several interim pieces, such as wing scoring and interior presence. As ESPN states:

"The irony of course is if (Anderson) went higher, he would have landed in a worse situation and maybe wouldn't even develop. Literally might be the difference between having a 12-plus year career and being out of the league before the end of his rookie-scale contract."


I hope Bebe has been eating. Because AL Jefferson, Andre Drummond, Brook Lopez, Jonas Valanciunas, Marc Gasol, Andy Vucevic, Greg Monroe, Nene and Roy Hibbert are already here. And they won't go easy on him just because he weighs 220 pounds and has injury concerns.

The latter is indeed a good point. And Boris Diaw is a perfect example of how true that last statement is. Any chance Anderson's future in SAS is actually at PF? He has the size and would provide a mismatch for most PFs in the league. Splitter provides the defense and rebounding. Kyle plays the drive and dish game to perfection or just sits outside as a stretch four.
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#55 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:47 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
azuresou1 wrote:Bebe is coming over this year after being the DPotY of Spain. I think he is a far bigger impact player than Dieng is or will be. No knocks on Dieng, but Bebe is taller, has better wingspan, is more mobile, more explosive, younger, and in general is a far better pick than Dieng.

Also, to revisit the original topic, even if Kyle Anderson succeeds in San Antonio, it doesn't mean anything for us. San Antonio is the perfect system for a guy like him, and they clearly already have championship talent to slot him in with minimal disruption. On the other hand, we clearly are missing several interim pieces, such as wing scoring and interior presence. As ESPN states:

"The irony of course is if (Anderson) went higher, he would have landed in a worse situation and maybe wouldn't even develop. Literally might be the difference between having a 12-plus year career and being out of the league before the end of his rookie-scale contract."


I hope Bebe has been eating. Because AL Jefferson, Andre Drummond, Brook Lopez, Jonas Valanciunas, Marc Gasol, Andy Vucevic, Greg Monroe, Nene and Roy Hibbert are already here. And they won't go easy on him just because he weighs 220 pounds and has injury concerns.

The latter is indeed a good point. And Boris Diaw is a perfect example of how true that last statement is. Any chance Anderson's future in SAS is actually at PF? He has the size and would provide a mismatch for most PFs in the league. Splitter provides the defense and rebounding. Kyle plays the drive and dish game to perfection or just sits outside as a stretch four.


Anderson has to be a PF in this league. He's too slow to guard the athletic SF's in the NBA.

I'm not certain that Bebe makes it to the NBA this year like everyone else seems to be. He still has a lot of work to do.
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#56 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:13 pm

PandaKidd wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:In a draft like this, I'd have preferred we trade back and select multiple solid players, than to simply get one role player with a pick as high as 15.

Except what if NO ONE wanted to trade and do what you suggest.


Trade talk: The Hawks considered a first-round trade before taking Payne, according to Ferry. “We had conversations to move back, we had conversations to move up,” Ferry said. “At the end of the day, as it evolved and all the opportunities came through, we felt like the best thing was to take the pick and we are excited.
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#57 » by theatlfan » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:16 pm

ATLHawksfan21 wrote:Anderson has to be a PF in this league. He's too slow to guard the athletic SF's in the NBA.

I'm not certain that Bebe makes it to the NBA this year like everyone else seems to be. He still has a lot of work to do.
Unfortunately, I think Bebe holds at least some cards here. We have to offer him or a contract or we lose his rights. IIRC, how he handled his injury situation really burned some bridges in the Euro Leagues as well and I don't think the team that he played for last year will take him back. It appears that he has tried to force his way over for the last year and if he doesn't want to play the game with us anymore, then he can take whatever we offer.
Jamaaliver wrote:I hope Bebe has been eating. Because AL Jefferson, Andre Drummond, Brook Lopez, Jonas Valanciunas, Marc Gasol, Andy Vucevic, Greg Monroe, Nene and Roy Hibbert are already here. And they won't go easy on him just because he weighs 220 pounds and has injury concerns.
Dieng weighed in at 230# at the combine. He was shorter than Bebe so it's probably a bit more than just 10# when translated to usable power, but let's not pretend like Dieng has a huge mass advantage on Bebe. If Dieng's game can translate, then Bebe's could as well - without a huge weight gain.
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#58 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:38 am

theatlfan wrote:Dieng weighed in at 230# at the combine. He was shorter than Bebe so it's probably a bit more than just 10# when translated to usable power, but let's not pretend like Dieng has a huge mass advantage on Bebe. If Dieng's game can translate, then Bebe's could as well - without a huge weight gain.


Wow. I don't know how to respond to this one. Everything I've seen or read on Bebe made not of his need to gain weight and muscle and he gets bullied in the paint. He's long and tall, but at 220 pounds he weighs less than string beans like Kevin Durant, Nerlens, Noel, Josh Smith.

I saw him get bullied in the paint against shorter stronger players last year in Summer League.
His lack of mass, however, was on display for all to see. The Clippers’ shorter big men, like Samardo Samuels, were able to find some low post success against him by throwing their weight around.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1702989-key-storylines-for-atlanta-hawks-summer-league-team

... His lack of strength is another major concern as he has a slight frame and gets pushed off the block easily
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/lucas-nogueira

Dieng's primary attribute has been brute strength. He's built like Ben Wallace.

Put on solid strength over the past year and after appearing to lack strength early in his college career, it no longer looks to be a deficiency
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/gorgui-dieng

Dieng's intrigue as an NBA prospect starts with his prototypical size and length for the center position. Standing 6'11 with a 7'4+ wingspan, he's added nearly 50 pounds to his frame since arriving in the USA, and although he could still stand to pack on more muscle to both his upper and lower body, he certainly passes the look test at this point more easily than he did as recently as a year ago.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz35tGWnyVx
http://www.draftexpress.com
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#59 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:44 am

And even at near 240 pounds this season, Dieng acknowledges he needs to get stronger.

"I think there is a lot of plays last year I couldn't finish because of my strength," Dieng said recently. "I think I got beat up a lot."
As a result, the 6-foot-11, 238-pound Senegal native is spending most of his offseason in Twin Cities weight rooms...


There are literally a number of SFs in this league with more weight and strength than Bebe has right now. He will find it very difficult to stop anyone in the post without adding a ton of muscle.
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Re: Prospecting: Kyle Anderson 

Post#60 » by ATLHawksfan21 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:57 am

theatlfan wrote:
ATLHawksfan21 wrote:Anderson has to be a PF in this league. He's too slow to guard the athletic SF's in the NBA.

I'm not certain that Bebe makes it to the NBA this year like everyone else seems to be. He still has a lot of work to do.
Unfortunately, I think Bebe holds at least some cards here. We have to offer him or a contract or we lose his rights. IIRC, how he handled his injury situation really burned some bridges in the Euro Leagues as well and I don't think the team that he played for last year will take him back. It appears that he has tried to force his way over for the last year and if he doesn't want to play the game with us anymore, then he can take whatever we offer.
Jamaaliver wrote:I hope Bebe has been eating. Because AL Jefferson, Andre Drummond, Brook Lopez, Jonas Valanciunas, Marc Gasol, Andy Vucevic, Greg Monroe, Nene and Roy Hibbert are already here. And they won't go easy on him just because he weighs 220 pounds and has injury concerns.
Dieng weighed in at 230# at the combine. He was shorter than Bebe so it's probably a bit more than just 10# when translated to usable power, but let's not pretend like Dieng has a huge mass advantage on Bebe. If Dieng's game can translate, then Bebe's could as well - without a huge weight gain.



Well at least he is eager to come over here. I would rather see him trying to force his way over here than being satisfied with playing in Europe. It would be a good thing for him to be training with the team on a daily basis as well. I'm just not sure if we have a spot for him. Hell, it's not like Ayon contributed much anyway. He couldn't play two weeks straight without getting hurt.

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