Al Horford to the 4?

[ATLHawksfan21]

Except I'm not one who thinks that Horford should spend 0 time guarding Centers. Horford has proven that he can be very successful playing the C spot. Just look at his insane stats in December for proof. There are what, 3 or 4 centers in the league that have the offensive skill to abuse Horford on that end? The problem with most of these guys is they are slow-footed and Al abuses them on the other end so it evens out.

I'm not sure if this is true. Last post-season, Horford had modest numbers when playing Center vs Roy Hibbert. The team was shellacked as we allowed the Pacers over 100 ppg. We move AL to PF, start Petro at Center and immediately our offense improves, as does AL's production. We even managed to hold Indy well below 100 for 3 of the next 4 games.

Our only playoff series win of the last 4 years...saw AL playing PF with a scrub next to him at Center.

I see these as of more importance than some stretch playing sub-par competition in December.

and you conveniently leave out the fact that those 3 games were in ATL. It's obvious to anyone that the Pacers killed us when they were at home and shot terribly on the road. You are really stretching here.

Pacers points scored @ Indy
107, 113, 106

Pacers points scored @ ATL
69, 91, 81

You are trying to act like Petro starting made some huge difference and Hibbert dominated in the first two games but cooled off in the final 4. You are completely wrong as his stats were consistent throughout the series.

First 2 games Hibbert averaged 15.5 pts on 44.4% shooting and 8.5 rebs
Last 4 games Hibbert averaged 14.25 pts on 50% shooting and 9 rebs

Where the big difference came was Smith guarding George instead of Korver guarding George. I'm not sure how any one can try and argue that the defensive adjustment was made to try and contain Hibbert and not George.

George first two games 25 ppg, 9.5 rebs, 7.5 assts on 41% FG and 10.5 made FTs per game
George last 4 games 15.5 ppg, 9.5 rebs, 3.75 assts on 42% FG and 4.5 made FT's per game

[Jamaaliver]

and you conveniently leave out the fact that those 3 games were in ATL. It's obvious to anyone that the Pacers killed us when they were at home and shot terribly on the road. You are really stretching here.

Pacers points scored @ Indy
107, 113, 106

Pacers points scored @ ATL
69, 91, 81

You are trying to act like Petro starting made some huge difference and Hibbert dominated in the first two games but cooled off in the final 4. You are completely wrong as his stats were consistent throughout the series.

First 2 games Hibbert averaged 15.5 pts on 44.4% shooting and 8.5 rebs
Last 4 games Hibbert averaged 14.25 pts on 50% shooting and 9 rebs

Where the big difference came was Smith guarding George instead of Korver guarding George. I'm not sure how any one can try and argue that the defensive adjustment was made to try and contain Hibbert and not George.

George first two games 25 ppg, 9.5 rebs, 7.5 assts on 41% FG and 10.5 made FTs per game
George last 4 games 15.5 ppg, 9.5 rebs, 3.75 assts on 42% FG and 4.5 made FT's per game

All of these statements are true. But you can't ignore the fact that the team indeed played well with AL at 4 and a defensive big at 5. Now imagine AL at 4 and solid Center playing next to him.

we would dominate front courts. MIA has one consistent weakness, interior defense. MEMPHIS was able to get to the conf final last year because of their huge, blue collar front line and tony allen's wing defense. this year, they took OKC to Game 7 and would have had a real chance, except that Zach Randolph got suspended.

A strong Front court is how you defeat these teams.

Again, our playoff series win in the last 4 years came with AL at 4 playing next to a defensive Center.

What does is hurt to try it for a year? We're not competing for a title with him at Center. His prime will last 2-3 seasons top. What do we have to lose?

[ATLHawksfan21]

and you conveniently leave out the fact that those 3 games were in ATL. It's obvious to anyone that the Pacers killed us when they were at home and shot terribly on the road. You are really stretching here.

Pacers points scored @ Indy
107, 113, 106

Pacers points scored @ ATL
69, 91, 81

You are trying to act like Petro starting made some huge difference and Hibbert dominated in the first two games but cooled off in the final 4. You are completely wrong as his stats were consistent throughout the series.

First 2 games Hibbert averaged 15.5 pts on 44.4% shooting and 8.5 rebs
Last 4 games Hibbert averaged 14.25 pts on 50% shooting and 9 rebs

Where the big difference came was Smith guarding George instead of Korver guarding George. I'm not sure how any one can try and argue that the defensive adjustment was made to try and contain Hibbert and not George.

George first two games 25 ppg, 9.5 rebs, 7.5 assts on 41% FG and 10.5 made FTs per game
George last 4 games 15.5 ppg, 9.5 rebs, 3.75 assts on 42% FG and 4.5 made FT's per game

All of these statements are true. But you can't ignore the fact that the team indeed played well with AL at 4 and a defensive big at 5. Now imagine AL at 4 and solid Center playing next to him.

we would dominate front courts. MIA has one consistent weakness, interior defense. MEMPHIS was able to get to the conf final last year because of their huge, blue collar front line and tony allen's wing defense. this year, they took OKC to Game 7 and would have had a real chance, except that Zach Randolph got suspended.

A strong Front court is how you defeat these teams.

Again, our playoff series win in the last 4 years came with AL at 4 playing next to a defensive Center.

What does is hurt to try it for a year? We're not competing for a title with him at Center. His prime will last 2-3 seasons top. What do we have to lose?

Are we calling any one over 6'11" a defensive big now? Since when did Johan Petro become a defensive big. He was terrible. We played well because Smith gave George a hard time and the Pacers don't shoot near as well on the road as they do at home.

Memphis got to the WCF because Blake Griffin got hurt, Westbrook got hurt and they avoided the Spurs until the WCF.

I don't mind trying for a year. I've even said that I would be willing to take on Asik for this final year, but only if its for a bargain deal (unless an option like Melo opens up). I would be fine with taking Asik for one year just to see how it works though. I just have zero interest in a Milsap for Asik swap. I think a lot of people are kidding themselves when they think that a Horford/Asik frontcourt is better than a Milsap/Horford frontcourt. It's not even close in my opinion.


I'm not against getting a true C either. I'm just against getting one just to say we have one. Horford and Milsap are one of the best low-post tandems in the league whether they are undersized or not so it's hard to make this adjustment and still get better. They are also both on bargain contracts. I see no need in giving one up in a lateral move. It needs to be a vertical move for a legit star than can actually win games.

[Jamaaliver]

<sigh>

We're going nowhere in these debates.

Horford and Milsap are one of the best low-post tandems in the league whether they are undersized or not so it's hard to make this adjustment and still get better.

yes. Yes. And josh and Horford were an AMAZING tandem also for 6 years.

I have 0 belief that Millsap is in our plans past next season.

And, I repeat, I think you're giving too much weight to an 11 game stretch. Sample size, dude.

[ATLHawksfan21]

<sigh>

We're going nowhere in these debates.

Horford and Milsap are one of the best low-post tandems in the league whether they are undersized or not so it's hard to make this adjustment and still get better.

yes. Yes. And josh and Horford were an AMAZING tandem also for 6 years.

I have 0 belief that Millsap is in our plans past next season.

And, I repeat, I think you're giving too much weight to an 11 game stretch. Sample size, dude.

Sigh all you want but I don't know why you keep referring to the 11 game stretch when I said nothing about it in the post you quoted. We're going no where in this debate because you keep trying to skew facts to make them fit your argument when they don't.

Milsap and Horford were playing damn well in November as well. It's not like they only played well in the 11 games in December and sucked or played average the rest of the time. We were 8-4 at the start of November before their legs gave out in that crazy 8 game in 12 day stretch. Sure, the schedule was weak but 3 of the losses were by 2, 2 and 4 pts. The only big loss was a beatdown @ Miami in a game where Milsap didnt play.

What's the point in even trying to use that comparison? What does Smith/Horford have to do with Milsap/Horford. Milsap and Smith are completely different players and we have a completely different system, coach and team.

[Jamaaliver]

Does anyone else think that the hawks will benefit by moving Big Al to the 4 spot? I feel like Al is a little undersized (6"10) at the center position which seems to now consist of guys at 7 feet or taller. It's not mainly fixated on the height issue though. The hawks were one of the worst rebounding teams in the league this season. Personally, I'd like to see the hawks pick up a guy that can crash the boards on a nightly basis for the 5 spot. I would prefer the hawks to go out and get a big man during the off season/free agency. I would like Asik before Spencer Hawes or Jordan Hill. Then they could use their draft pick (15th) on HOPEFULLY Nik Stauskas or Garry Harris.

After watching the way San Antonio has used Splitter this post-season, I believe we are seeing the model for how Bebe will be used going forward. His primary purpose is rebounding and contesting shots at the rim. He scores sparingly, usually on dump offs in the paint or offensive putbacks.

I absolutely want to see Horford at the 4 for a season. And think more than ever that this team could improve and thrive with a big defensive Center playing next to him.

I also acknowledge the benefits of a Center who can spread the floor with his 3-pt shooting. (Consider this a peace offering ATLHawksfan21.) I have noted that Spurs play Splitter generally less than half of the game in the postseason. They do NOT replace him in the lineup with another defensive Center.

A Pero Antic-like backup would then work to relieve the starters using his passing and shooting to offset his other limitations.

P Gasol and Asik could fill the role Splitter does currently. But long-term, it's gonna be Bebe. And he'll likely be better than Splitter.

AL at the 4 will work...next to a real Center.

[PandaKidd]

Forgive my ignorance but Splitter is a BIG GUY, huge broad shoulders, hes a mountain.

bebe looks like string beans.

Splitter - 6'11'' 250lbs
Bebe - 7' 220lbs

30-40 lbs difference, SPlitter looks more like 260 to me. I have a bad feeling about him and Muscala getting beat to death for being so much smaller

[Jamaaliver]

Forgive my ignorance but Splitter is a BIG GUY, huge broad shoulders, hes a mountain.

bebe looks like string beans.

Splitter - 6'11'' 250lbs
Bebe - 7' 220lbs

30-40 lbs difference, SPlitter looks more like 260 to me. I have a bad feeling about him and Muscala getting beat to death for being so much smaller

That is...a very good point. It's worth noting that Splitter also didn't come to the NBA until age 25.

Asik can fill the Splitter role today, no question. Here's hoping Bebe isn't another 4 years from being strong enough to play Center in the NBA.

[myrak433]

Forgive my ignorance but Splitter is a BIG GUY, huge broad shoulders, hes a mountain.

bebe looks like string beans.

Splitter - 6'11'' 250lbs
Bebe - 7' 220lbs

30-40 lbs difference, SPlitter looks more like 260 to me. I have a bad feeling about him and Muscala getting beat to death for being so much smaller

I see your point but Splitter wasn't 30-40 Lbs more than Bebe when he was the same age as Bebe.
Spliter 233 Lbs at at 20 years old. Bebe 225 Lbs at 21 years old. I believe he has the frame to add about 15 more Lbs of muscle.

P.S Marcus Camby drafted at age 22 223Lbs 6'11"

[PandaKidd]

Not saying he couldnt put weight on, but , Muscalla to me looked like he had good footwork, decetn outside range. But he was abused in the post. He was too skinny.

[minimus]

Guys, Minnesota fan here
Would you trade Millsap for Pekovic? You might have Pekovic-Horford frontcourt, one of the best on East

[Baller2014]

I doubt it. Pek has stamina and health issues.

[minimus]

I doubt it. Pek has stamina and health issues.

Only health issues (injuries)
Millsap will be unrestricted FA next year. So you won't get any compensation for him.

[Baller2014]

Unless the Hawks re-sign him.

[minimus]

Unless the Hawks re-sign him.

Ferry should have signed Millsap to 3 yr contract with possibiity to use Bird rights later. In current situation you have have no advantage over other teams.

[Baller2014]

I'm not a Hawks fan. But Ferry probably couldn't get him to a 3 year deal. He keeps him or he doesn't, but there's as much chance of that as not. No need to move him for an oft injured player, not when cheaper/better alternatives might be available.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Unless the Hawks re-sign him.

Ferry should have signed Millsap to 3 yr contract with possibiity to use Bird rights later. In current situation you have have no advantage over other teams.

No two years was the correct length. The 2015 free agency class is loaded and we will have a ton of cap room and im not trying to blow that cap space on Pekovic

Sent from my SCH-I535 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[theatlfan]

Unless the Hawks re-sign him.

Ferry should have signed Millsap to 3 yr contract with possibiity to use Bird rights later. In current situation you have have no advantage over other teams.

We have Early Bird Rights after 2 years though. We may not be able to offer him any $$ that we desire, but we can offer him more than what Pekovic got.

Others have given their reasons for not wanting Pekovic, but mine is that he simply isn't a fit here. On O, our goal is to put 5 jump shooters on the floor which just isn't Pekovic's specialty. For whatever he brings, the ability to hit the 15'er consistently isn't on that list. On D, we appear to be looking for a rim protector in the middle over a m2m post defender. I base this on the fact that when we acquire a player with a more premium asset (e.g., Nogueira and Brand) that player is known for his ability to alter shots from the middle of the paint - even the guys who we have a hard rumor that we like (e.g., Prozingis) fit this description. Again, this just isn't a specialty of Pekovic's. It fairly obvious that Pek just isn't a schematic fit for us.

There appears to be a case of "I have a C, you want a C" without looking under the covers and realizing that the C you have doesn't fit the description of the C we'd want... at all. Add in the fact that there's actually a handful of 5's that come closer to matching the description we want in FA next year and I just really don't see a fit for an straight ATL/MIN centering around Pek unless MIN decides to dump him (which I don't see as a realistic possibility). Maybe a 3 team deal would work though.

[PandaKidd]

Millsap will be unrestricted FA next year. So you won't get any compensation for him.

If he gets to URFA with us. I have a strong feeling he is being traded in a week.

[Jamaaliver]

I also want no part of Asik. He's too one-dimensional of a player for my tastes. Our system requires all 5 players on the court to be competent on the offensive side of the ball and he isn't. His contract is downright absurd as well.

I've been pondering this for much of the last 6 months.

After seeing SAS steamroll competition in both the regular season and playoffs with a limited defensive Center like Tiago Splitter (playing in a system identical to ours) and even seeing Tyson Chandler reinvigorate a Dallas Mavericks team that has a renewed focus on defense but is amazingly effective on offense.

A defensive Center, flanked by offenisve players in a effective offensive scheme can indeed flourish. With execution, balance and discipline.

We have to get a Center in here next summer to pair with AL and force teams to adjust to US.