theatlfan wrote:Have to think that anyone who sees Payne's season thus far as anything but a major disappointment is sugar coating it. Coming into the draft, Payne's combination of age, experience, coaching, and physical gifts meant that he was supposed to be able to contribute to an NBA team immediately - if not as a regular rotation player, then as an energy big who could shoot a little. Even some of the points against (lung capacity was at the top of the list) has some mitigating factors for consideration (he had mono). At this point, we have to seriously reconsider the analysis. The fact that he hasn't beaten out last year's 2nd rounder for a roster spot speaks volumes here. Yeah, it's just one season and it's a bit too early to call him a bust, but the early returns are far from promising.Whereas I agree that Coach Bud has gotten more from vets than they had given previously, I don't think we should discount the age factor here as easily as you suggest. There are several studies showing that the earlier in life a player is productive on the NBA level, the more you can expect out of him as time goes on. There is a little *duh* in that statement since phenoms are typically going to make the jump to the NBA faster than players who take time in developing, but this has also been shown with players selected in similar draft positions. On top of this, the peak years are typically gathered around the age 28 season and a standard bell curve fits around this mean. Just because Coach Bud is able to extract water from rock doesn't mean that we should simply throw these studies away... does it?MaceCase wrote:So the complaint now is that instead of getting some burn and developing somewhere, you rather have him in a suit on the bench? His age doesn't matter, Bud and the Spurs have torn down and there have been articles to confirm that the old adage that players hit their prime by 28 and then it's all downhill isn't necessarily true. We have vets well past that point developing new skills and putting in career years. The team is 2nd in the entire league breaking records and opponents left and right yet some want to complain that some young guy isn't cracking the rotation of what looks like a contender? Even better, guys that look like bonafide role-players on lotto teams are being pined for and for what exactly? For the old debunked myth of Al needs to move to PF? The **** works from where I'm sitting but I guess complaining is a natural prerogative around here.
Still, considering Payne's age, I think we're all hoping that he will be the exception instead of the rule here. At the very least, that once he gets up to being productive, his game will, at the very least, have a much more gradual decline post-28 than his ascension to 28. Assuming that the optimists are correct and that Payne's early struggles are just a matter of integration into the league and nothing to be too concerned about, I think this is the best we can hope for.
Well a lot of this seems be taken in a vacuum while ignoring that this team is consistently destroying conventional adages on a daily basis so why should this topic be any different? What does mentioning beating out a 2nd rounder for the active roster spot have to do with his evaluation? It doesn't, fretting over 1>2 in terms of draft position is falling into that conventional thinking. If anything, Muscala (I assume you meant Muscala) has been instrumental in allowing Payne to learn the system because thanks to the team's DLeague tango it allowed them to place Payne on the Spurs' affiliate in Austin rather than receiving little structure in Fort Wayne. Beyond that, the record pace is being ignored. Is getting Payne time now worth plus ~3 wins to what looks like a current juggernaut or minus ~3 wins now for some off in the future payoff? Is it troubling that neither him nor that 2nd rounder can get time fulfilling a role over that undrafted 31 year old rookie that has managed to *gasp* improve so far in his sophomore season?
"Extracting water from a rock" may seem miraculous when viewed once but when you've watched Bud and the system do it across the span of the Rocky Mountains it starts to feel like old hat. In lieu of watching such consistent results, perhaps your evaluative tools should be adjusted to fit within the context of that which is unfolding in front of you.