Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season...........

[Jamaaliver]

CBS Sports wrote a nice piece responding to the rumors we shopped Horford last year:

So here's a question.

"What?!"

It seems crazy on the surface. From the time Horford started to hit his prime in 2009 through 2013 (before last year was cut short due to a shoulder injury), Horford was 19th in the league in Win Shares per Basketball-Reference.com...He is a two-time All-Star and despite having little to no household name value, is one of the most valuable players in the league, a center that can stretch the floor, defend in the post, shoot, pass, and causes no issues for his teammates.

So why on Earth would the Hawks think about letting him go?

...So if you can't trade Horford for what you need, it doesn't help you to trade him for what you can, and you can't use him to sign a major upgrade. So yeah, Horford will likely continue to be involved in trade talks, because trying to figure out how to work him into a championship picture is one of the more complicated issues in basketball.

They go over the pros and cons of Horford as the team's best player. Pretty interesting, non-biased read.

[Slartibartfast]

I don't see anyway Sullinger and Green would be nearly enough to get Horford. I'm not a Green fan because even though the 17 ppg looks pretty on the surface, his percentages last year were horrible. Then add in his $9 salary and you can find player at the same level for cheaper. I feel Sullinger is in the same boat as his fg% was also very bad, something you do not want to see from a big. By comparison, Horford's fg% has always been at or above .499.

I feel conversations would need to start with Smart.

There is a huge disconnect between the value that Boston fans feel Green has the value the rest of the league fans feel Green has. Boston fans seem the feel he is on the verge of stardom. The rest of the league sees a guy who averaged 17 ppg on a weakened Boston team and in doing so tanked his fg%. For him there is a huge tradeoff. He can score you around 15 ppg as a starter on a team with other options (aka Teague, Millsap, Korver), however in doing so you are looking at a sub .450 fg% with a 3p% hovering around .330 (some years are better, some are worse)

I think it's Sully that us Celtics fans tend to over-rate trade value wise.

I agree that the conversation would have to start with Smart. But Smart is pretty expendable for Boston.

[Revived]

Give the Suns Horford, we'll give you any (except Dragic & Bledsoe) of our million guards.

[Jamaaliver]

Celtics would probably give up Sullinger and expirings as a starting point...

You piqued my interest on Sullinger. From what I've heard/seen of late...he does indeed seem like a nice young player. Very good rebounder, solid size for a Center, range out to the 3-pt line.

I don't believe he can garner Horford in trade without adding a ton of value, but he could be a piece we keep an eye on for the future.

[PandaKidd]

Celtics would probably give up Sullinger and expirings as a starting point...

You piqued my interest on Sullinger. From what I've heard/seen of late...he does indeed seem like a nice young player. Very good rebounder, solid size for a Center, range out to the 3-pt line.

I don't believe he can garner Horford in trade without adding a ton of value, but he could be a piece we keep an eye on for the future.

Celtics basically stole Sullinger with what, the 18th pick? I loved it when they did it. But why would you trade prospect like him that you got at the 18th pick for Horford ?

Celtics will trade a second rounder for Horford with Gerald Wallace, they arent interested in giving away the young talent they are building with their draft picks.

[Jamaaliver]

Celtics basically stole Sullinger with what, the 18th pick? I loved it when they did it. But why would you trade prospect like him that you got at the 18th pick for Horford ?

Let's not forget BOS won a championship by trading away developing Lottery Talent like AL Jefferson. And then trading away mainstays like Garnett, Pierce and Rivers for future lottery picks. Ainge believes in hoarding prospects/picks and cashing them in for top players. A move of Sully for Horford seems right in line with his past actions.

Celtics will trade a second rounder for Horford with Gerald Wallace, they arent interested in giving away the young talent they are building with their draft picks.

What's sad, I suspect if Ferry was in charge, he'd agree to that trade in a heartbeat. That man would sell his own mother if it meant more cap space...

[PandaKidd]

Yeah do we really think Horford is in the same breath as Garnett? Not even close. I mean trading for Horford by giving up a player that could arguably be as good or better than him..............

Boston would give up maybe Olynyk , not sully unless its a bonafied Superstar. Horford is not

CBA is different now too, I just dont see any team giving up young assets for 30 year old players not named Lebron/Melo/KD

[Jamaaliver]

You make great points as always. I think maybe I did forget how productive KG was back in his prime.

But I can't imagine a world where Ainge or any other executive turns down an All Star in his prime on a great contract for Sully.

[PandaKidd]

You make great points as always. I think maybe I did forget how productive KG was back in his prime.

But I can't imagine a world where Ainge or any other executive turns down an All Star in his prime on a great contract for Sully.

You make compelling agreements as well, which is why I love our back and forths

Horford is on a great contract for 2 years. I think a lot depends on how Sully performs this year. If he becomes the 20/10 guy he can be, who knows. He will be too valuable to trade for someone 7 years older.

If Boston is trading for someone in their prime it has to be someone the can build around for the next 3-4 years and make a run. Boston is famous for tanking and then FA signing. I dont see Horford as a championship center piece, hes a complimentary player. But, if Smart or Young breakout (or both) then maybe Horford could be the Vet guy to bring them all together. But, if youre Boston, why not just wait until hes a FA.

Boston would have to believe that Horford was THE PIECE to put them back on the map, i doubt they think that. I think they are targeting bigger fish like LMA or KD

[Slartibartfast]

You make great points as always. I think maybe I did forget how productive KG was back in his prime.

But I can't imagine a world where Ainge or any other executive turns down an All Star in his prime on a great contract for Sully.

You make compelling agreements as well, which is why I love our back and forths

Horford is on a great contract for 2 years. I think a lot depends on how Sully performs this year. If he becomes the 20/10 guy he can be, who knows. He will be too valuable to trade for someone 7 years older.

If Boston is trading for someone in their prime it has to be someone the can build around for the next 3-4 years and make a run. Boston is famous for tanking and then FA signing. I dont see Horford as a championship center piece, hes a complimentary player. But, if Smart or Young breakout (or both) then maybe Horford could be the Vet guy to bring them all together. But, if youre Boston, why not just wait until hes a FA.

Boston would have to believe that Horford was THE PIECE to put them back on the map, i doubt they think that. I think they are targeting bigger fish like LMA or KD

Based on my experience as a C's fan, I don't think so. Remember Ainge traded a #5 pick for a 32-year-old Ray Allen with no guarantee that KG was coming down the pipeline. He'd been actively pursuing Pau Gasol and Allen Iverson the year prior.

And Boston has some urgency to acquire all-stars now (or before the end of the 2015 offseason at least), because they risk losing their only all-star (Rondo) to free agency if they don't.

[PandaKidd]

I think you can pack Rondos bags for him, hes not staying. Mainly because I think unless he has a MAJOR rebound this year, his value will be far below what Ainge will be willing to pay him.

I dont think the Allen argument is comparable, because SGs age much better than PFs who are coming off 2 torn Pectorals.

Ray Allen was also way better than AH comparitvely and Boston already had their SF in Pierce.

I feel like Boston just drafted a SG and the have Green and Evan Turner at SF. To me they are trading for a PF/C or a REAlly good SF.

I can see them trading Green/Sully for someone like LMA caliber with picks on top,. but LMA isnt leaving POR. i just dont know if Horford really does it for them.

[Slartibartfast]

I think you can pack Rondos bags for him, hes not staying. Mainly because I think unless he has a MAJOR rebound this year, his value will be far below what Ainge will be willing to pay him.

I dont think the Allen argument is comparable, because SGs age much better than PFs who are coming off 2 torn Pectorals.

Ray Allen was also way better than AH comparitvely and Boston already had their SF in Pierce.

I feel like Boston just drafted a SG and the have Green and Evan Turner at SF. To me they are trading for a PF/C or a REAlly good SF.

I can see them trading Green/Sully for someone like LMA caliber with picks on top,. but LMA isnt leaving POR. i just dont know if Horford really does it for them.

Your first paragraph doesn't make sense: if Rondo's value will be below what Ainge is willing to pay him, then it's a home run that he stays.

And I don't think a 28 year old Horford on a bargain deal compares unfavorably to a 32-year-old Ray Allen on a max deal. People forget Ray was coming off double ankle surgery and had missed a good chunk of the prior season.

If Horford's available, I'd wager decent money that Boston will be one of the more aggressive suitors (and there will be many suitors).

[PandaKidd]

Rondo is going to want max money, Ainge will not pay him max money. Seeya.

DIfferent Eras, different CBA. Again, I feel Boston is really high on Sully, not sure how you swap AH for Sully and it makes since unless you have other MAJOR roster changes