11/26 Raptors at Hawks

[Detective]

Omg, Raptors fans are the most annoying fans on RealGM. NOT ONCE at any other point so far this season has another the fans from the opposing team come in our game thread and And1 literally every single post.

There is no bait, troll or ill intention here, though. Our fans have been coming to opponent's boards in every game this season, and saying GG(along with And1's) as a sign of respective. Regardless of win or loss.

[lolwut]

GG folks

Hawks always seem to play well against the Raptors. This game was pretty close again until the final moments. Hawks need a lot of help on the inside. Horford/Millsap can't play 48 minutes and there's nobody to back them up as you guys literally don't have a single available big on the bench. Antic doesn't really count.

[simon24]

GG folks

Hawks always seem to play well against the Raptors. This game was pretty close again until the final moments. Hawks need a lot of help on the inside. Horford/Millsap can't play 48 minutes and there's nobody to back them up as you guys literally don't have a single available big on the bench. Antic doesn't really count.

They got a young PF who can block shots and hustle in Muscula and Elton Brand is a solid defensive big men at this point of his career but Coach Bud refuses to use them. Instead he gives a lot of minutes to Scott and Antic.

I guess they get no play time since they don't shoot 3's like everybody else.

[ATL Boy]

lol left for a few hours and came back to about 15 And1's. Thanks Raps fans.

[6ixSideSniper]

Omg, Raptors fans are the most annoying fans on RealGM. NOT ONCE at any other point so far this season has another the fans from the opposing team come in our game thread and And1 literally every single post.

It's pretty damn annoying, even Raptors fans hate on the Raptors fans that do that nonsense.

[Jamaaliver]

C-Viv's Observations from AJC:

He didn’t say it or show it, but Lou Williams may have had an axe to grind against the Hawks for his offseason trade. Williams said this summer he expected to be moved based on exit interviews with general manager Danny Ferry and head coach Mike Budenholzer.

He made the Hawks pay.

Williams scored 22 points in 27 minutes off the bench. He was 6 of 11 from the field, including 4 of 6 from 3-point range. He also make all six free-throw attempts.

This may go without saying, but Jeff Teague is on a tear. He finished with a double-double of 24 points and 12 rebounds. Over the past four games, Teague is averaging 25.points and 6.0 assists. More to come on this Thursday.

[Rip2137]

LOL at the people lamenting the loss of Lou Williams in this thread yet loving Dennis Schroder.

Sooooo....you guys know the only way to give a young player significant minutes...right?

[Jamaaliver]

LOL at the people lamenting the loss of Lou Williams in this thread yet loving Dennis Schroder.

Sooooo....you guys know the only way to give a young player significant minutes...right?

I'm not sure I follow that logic. The rap against Lou Williams for years has been that he is an undersized SG that struggles defensively guarding bigger wing players.

But now, he's a PG who would stunt Dennis' development? I don't buy that argument.

Either way, that logjam could be cleared up by trading Jeff Teague and spare parts for a Starter on the wings and NOT re-signing Shelvin Mack or Kent Bazemore.

Moves I was pretty adamant about in the off-season.

[Rip2137]

So we should have traded Jeff Teague so we could have kept Lou Williams.


...

Dude...

[Jamaaliver]

So we should have traded Jeff Teague so we could have kept Lou Williams.


...

Dude...

C'mon, RIP.

You, personally, better than most, know this is not what I am advocating.

I am in favor of moving Jeff for a top player/prospect. If that would have allowed to also keep Lou and Bebe in the fold in pursuit of a better deal...the great.

[Rip2137]

No...you just said in the off season we should have traded Teague, not resigned Mack and kept Lou.

So you just said that even though Dennis sucked last year, Lou sucked most of the year, we should have traded our best guard and not resigned our second best guard last year. You have to know that's completely illogical...trade the good players for guys that were completely ineffective last year. For all your "we were mediocre" statements, a large reason for our mediocre season was the two guys you are claiming we should have gone all in on being terrible last year. Without a crystal ball those moves make no sense. Even using hindsight those are pretty bad moves.

[Jamaaliver]

No...you just said in the off season we should have traded Teague, not resigned Mack and kept Lou.

RIP.

What are you talking about?

For months I have been advocating trading Teague for value.

For over a year I have lamented Mack being on this roster.

And since this summer, I have lamented losing Bebe and Lou for table scraps.

Those three arguments have been completely independent of the others. You know this as we have specifically gone back and forth on this.

Had we NOT brought in Bazemore and Mack this year. We'd have a need for a vet 2 guard off the bench capable of creating his own shot. A role that for a single season...LOU Could be filling.

Instead, we strengthened a competitor. Saw no tangible benefit from doing so. And gave up on the reigning DPOY from one of the best Pro leagues in the world. Without him ever playing a game in a Hawks jersey.

So you just said that even though Dennis sucked last year, Lou sucked most of the year, we should have traded our best guard and not resigned our second best guard last year. You have to know that's completely illogical...trade the good players for guys that were completely ineffective last year.

THAT'S...not how trades work. When we trade a valuable commodity, the whole point is to get an equally valuable commodity in return. We trade our best players for...high quality assets at positions of need.

This leaves an opening for a younger player like Dennis to fill. So now we can be strong at two positions instead of one.

I have serious doubts that a backcourt of Teague and Korver can lead us anywhere significant in the playoffs. But both of those guys are high valued trade commodities.

THAT's what I am advocating. Getting better value from our assets. Instead of always trading/losing them for nothing except cap space...which then goes unused.

[Rip2137]

You wanted to trade our best point guard and our 2nd best point guard to get help on the wing and move our worse point guard into the starting position and have a guy that YOU advocated being benched last year to be our 6th man. You are trying to pretend that because Lou is off to a good start and Dennis looks good, that would have been a good move, completely ignoring that both of them looked like trash last season.

"This leaves an opening for a younger player like Dennis to fill. So now we can be strong at two positions instead of one."

Except there is no way in GOD you can say that replacing Teague with Dennis would have been keeping strength at the position after last year. Mack was better and more consistent than Lou and Dennis last year, yet you are saying "we totally should have not resigned him so we could have kept Lou at more money".

I'm sorry but your history of this weird bias against Shelvin Mack doesn't somehow make this seem like you aren't using some hindsight to pretend you are correct. The two worse guards on our roster last year were Lou Williams and Dennis Schroder. You are stating that the best move in the offseason would have been to lean even more on them and trade one of our top players for help on the wing. Forget this being about the Hawks. Let this be about ANY team in the NBA.

If someone said "Hey guys, our starting point guard is on the cusp of being an Allstar. We have a very solid backup as well. I think we should get rid of both of them and give our worse guard this season the starting job and our 2nd worse guard a major role. We can use the near allstar player to get help on the wing. Where 2 of our other most solid players play." Are you telling me that sounds like a great deal?

[Jamaaliver]

There's a lot here that I dispute. So bear with me.

You wanted to trade our best point guard and our 2nd best point guard to get help on the wing and move our worse point guard into the starting position and have a guy that YOU advocated being benched last year to be our 6th man. You are trying to pretend that because Lou is off to a good start and Dennis looks good, that would have been a good move, completely ignoring that both of them looked like trash last season.

I'm not sure I agree they both looked like trash the whole year. They struggled. No doubt. But both played strongly down the stretch. A couple of my statements:

In late March:

I admit that Lou has played poorly most of this season. But his value on that contract and his specific skillset strikes me as being more useful to us. We score efficiently enough and a fair number of points overall. But too often in crunchtime we tighten up and can't but a bucket. None of our backup wings can consistently create their own or get to the FT line. Two things Lou is great at.

I admit he'll be shopped hard this summer, as he should be. But still think that as he furthers his recovery from injury he could return to being our Manu Ginobili/Jamal Crawford in a 6th man role.

With all that said, I'm just glad we're finally getting a chance to see what Dennis can do with consistent PT. Though I am surprised it's coming at the expense of LW's playing time.

HERE

In early April:

Based on his recent production, do we see Lou Will being able to fill a scoring role off the bench similar to last year.

He's played better of late and seems to be gaining confidence. I still want a protoypical 2-guard on the team, but think Lou has a future here. Especially at his current salary.

Here


They both struggled last year. But Lou was young enough to fully recover from surgery given more time. And he'd proven what he is capable of over a long period of time. Based on his salary, and his assumed recovery...I was pulling for him to stay even 8 months ago.

[Jamaaliver]

Except there is no way in GOD you can say that replacing Teague with Dennis would have been keeping strength at the position after last year. Mack was better and more consistent than Lou and Dennis last year, yet you are saying "we totally should have not resigned him so we could have kept Lou at more money".

I don't know that I was ready to replace Teague with Dennis. I've been pretty consistent about bringing Dennis along slowly. He always needed to be playing, learning, taking his lumps on the court...as I saw potential in him very early.

But only recently did I believe Dennis is capable of effectively replacing Teague.

I've said this before. many times. And we can disagree over it. But I jut don't see Teague being good enough to carry this team alone. If we had a team full of vets around him talented enough to contend. Then maybe. But at this point, he is essentially wasting his prime years on a team going nowhere. I think both sides benefit by parting ways.

If Indy gets a lottery pick next summer, I very much advocate trading Teague for a top draft pick and additional goodies.

[Jamaaliver]

I'm sorry but your history of this weird bias against Shelvin Mack doesn't somehow make this seem like you aren't using some hindsight to pretend you are correct.

I don't know how else to say it. I do not think Mack is a good NBA player. I honestly think he is lucky to be in the league.

Maybe the words of other more enlightened posters can express it better:

I feel bad hating on Shelvin Mack because he's just a guy trying to make it in the league, but my god is he horriawful.

Yeah, he really is. He isn't particularly solid at anything...

HERE



Somewhere along the way, you changed your opinion on Mack. I didn't. The fact this guy got PT over a budding star still infuriates me. Especially when it occurred on a losing team.

Now, he has reverted back to form. The fringe NBAer who can't do anything particularly well.

Azure stated it best earlier this year:

I've been a chronic hater of Mack, and though he's played very well this season, I stand by my position. He is not nor will ever be a starting caliber PG - ideally he's not even your backup PG. He is a role player that is having a great season.

HERE

[dms269]

This has gone on long enough. Locking it.